It may come as a great surprise to all the food snobs, but the majority of customers at French McDonald's are French. French families patronize McD's for the same reason Americans do--they are in a hurry and the kids can be fed quickly. They are all over in France and my friends there who have children patronize them.

There is less and less time, by the way, for 3 hour lunches during the week in families where both the husband and wife work.

Sound familiar?

By the way, for those looking down their snobby noses at immigrants "outbreeding" the natives, as people move into more upscale jobs, the number of children they have decreases. I hate to tell you the terrible jobs my immigrant ancestors had. They had a lot of children and people who got here first looked down on them. Sound familiar?

Less population is not a bad thing as human beings are overwhelming their planet's natural resources.

Immigrants in America provide this society with a lot of drive and energy. They work terrible jobs. Their kids go to college and one day real soon one of them will be elected president. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

"By the way, for those looking down their snobby noses at immigrants "outbreeding" the natives, as people move into more upscale jobs, the number of children they have decreases. I hate to tell you the terrible jobs my immigrant ancestors had. They had a lot of children and people who got here first looked down on them. Sound familiar?

Less population is not a bad thing as human beings are overwhelming their planet's natural resources.

Immigrants in America provide this society with a lot of drive and energy. They work terrible jobs. Their kids go to college and one day real soon one of them will be elected president. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that."

You're so incredibly idealistic and somewhat disconnected with reality. Not everyone advances so easily in life. Not every family becomes prosperous. Not every family manages to send their offspring to college. Not every family secures better jobs for its members as new generations are born. The hard reality is that the majority of immigrants from less-developed nations have a difficult time fully integrating into the host society. They are more prone to commit crimes, they are more prone to live in poverty, they are more prone to receive less education, they are more prone to high birth rates, they are more prone to unemployment. This applies to the USA. Just look at the explosion of latinamerican immigrants and the projections of their population levels, crime rates, and educational levels. They will become a majority in the USA within the next century (check the census website). Crime rates are up in states with the largest proportions of immigrants. Educational standards are down...children born to immigrants have the lowest educational achievements of any group. Poverty rates have also increased...there is a greater proportion of people living under poverty conditions in states with the highest proportions of immigrants. You just haven't actually experienced these changes, because you probably live in your secluded middle class anglo-suburb. You spew your politically correct, pro-globalization views because that's what's been fed to you at schools and through the media, while remaining largely ignorant of reality.

"Not everyone advances so easily in life. Not every family becomes prosperous. Not every family manages to send their offspring to college. Not every family secures better jobs for its members as new generations are born."

I don't recall anyone saying it was easy; in fact, what many people admire and revere about the immigrant experience is that so many perservere even though it <i>is</i> so hard. Still, a curious post from someone who, judging from the name and position at a major university, seems to live or have achieved just that &quot;American dream&quot; with a immigrant background in the not-so-very-far past.

you're wrong. I decided not to remain in the US. I came back to my country after finishing up my masters. Not everyone pursues the $60k-a-year-minus-40%-taxes-80-hours-a-week-job-live-in-bland-suburbs-with-identical-houses-paying-a-20-year-mortgage-having-a-401k-plan-for-retirement-invest-in-the-10%-return-stock-market &quot;american dream&quot;. Quite frankly, I'm happier here, close to friends and family, saving as much as I would have if I were living in the states. Funny how americans always assume internationals wish to remain in the US. True, you have excellent educational institutions, and I feel priviledged to have attended to two of them. However, I come from a well-to-do family. I don't have the same needs as poor immigrants.

Oh, so I live an Anglo American life style?

How little you know who I am and what my background is, but I will say this: I haven't an Anglo or Western European in my background. I am pure Eastern European Jewish peasant by background.

People criticized my grandparents for having too many children. My mother remembers &quot;No cats. No dogs. No Jews&quot; signs. I remember people saying nasty things about Jews too--and sororities and fraternities in college (and country clubs) that wanted nothing to do with Jews (not that I would have been interested in joining them. Then there were restrictive real estate covenants. Remember those? I do.

And I deeply dislike your slam of our hardworking Latino population. They take all the undesirable jobs and their kids end up in top jobs. And, no one said it was easy. Life isn't easy for anyone anywhere. It takes a lot of hard work to survive in this world--whether you work with your body or sit at a desk.

In my opinion, you take away the immigrants, the US loses its reason for being. Some of you sound exactly like the Know Nothings from the 19th century who were probably busy slamming some &quot;recent&quot; immigrants such as Germans and Irish.

How small minded and self centered some of you are. Did you forget where you came from? And, if your ancestors came on the Mayflower, that and $1.35 will get you on Metro in DC.

Again, you are being idealistic.

&quot;And I deeply dislike your slam of our hardworking Latino population. They take all the undesirable jobs and their kids end up in top jobs.&quot;

I din't slam the latino population. I was just stating facts. It's clear to me you have a deep-seated aversion to reality. Making such positive generalizations as &quot;...their kids end up in top jobs&quot; and &quot;...hardworking latino population&quot; is as equally damaging as negative generalizations. You seem to think that ALL latino kids end up in top jobs...a claim that is laughable at best. ALL latinos are hardworking...right, tell that to the immigrant latino gangs currently terrorizing inner cities. For the record, I never made any negative generalizations about the immigrant population. I was merely stating statistical facts. Unlike you, I can think in shades of grey.

&quot;...you sound like the know nothings from the 19th...&quot;

I know nothing?

I had the impression that this post was supposed to be about Europe...

Texas has a large populations of Hispanic's immigrants and I can see that the gap and the disparancies between the Have and HAVE Not, is widening everyday.
Texas has also a large percentage of teens pregnancy and yes the majorities of these girls come from a very low income minorities families .
It is a sad situation, Babies having babies, without any hope for a better future.

Rodriguez, since you don't seem to mind explaining, why is your email still attached to the University of Wisconsin if you're now living out of the country?

Fauxstmarie - help me understand how you can berate people for posting what you consider to be non travel related posts on the board when you are guilty of the same thing? Even more so?

This thread is not necessarily unrelated to travel. In looking over some of the vitrol on this thread--including yours Lenox--perhaps it would be better off blocked from further posts and should not have been begun at all.

Thank you for your nasty post.

kswl, every UW alumni retains his/her assigned campus email address for life.

sorry if a come off as pedantic. heh.

I have followed this thread with interest. What really struck me about the original post and the concerns of the OP's friend is that those remarks (Holland becoming less Dutch, immigrants receiving favourable treatment over natives, etc.) sound very like the arguments used by the extreme right-wing movements which have a strong following in many European countries. Le Pen and his Front National play on exactly those sentiments, fears and insecurities to drum up support. I know little about Dutch politics, but enough to know that there is an extreme right-wing party with a lot of support there also.

It was also interesting to read the comment that &quot;The Europeans will have to learn to live with their Muslim immigrants...&quot; - perhaps the poster doesn't realise that Europe has been receiving Muslim immigrants for a long time. Many Muslims in France (from North Africa) and the UK (Pakistan and India), for instance, are integrated into the community and very much part of what makes up the fabric of those countries. Yes there are extremists but there's always going to be a radical fringe, and they don't have to be immigrants either (think about the troubles in N. Ireland or the Basque country).

Indeed, as a foreigner living in Brussels, do I have any more &quot;right&quot; to be here than the Moroccans or the Congolese who live here too? Well, legally I do as a EU citizen, but surely I'm polluting the local demographic and making the country less Belgian.

Really, muslim immigrants are nothing new. I lived in France 30+ years ago, and I lived in an area where most people were of Algerian/Tunisian/Moroccan origin. That didn´t make France less France, at least not to me.

Even a country like Finland has had a muslim minority for over 150 years: Tatars who came during the Crimean war. Thay have kept their faith and their names but otherwise they are totally integrated.

Hanl, I know what you mean, but when we lived in St. Gilles, it was more than a little upsetting to see SO much graffiti along the lines of &quot;death to Jews&quot; and &quot;Jews are dogs&quot; written on *dozens* of buildings. And remember the arson attack on the Jewish store a few years ago on the chaussee de Waterloo. Had hoped that kind of thing was over in Europe.

&gt;... the Windsors were clearly English...

From Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? And before that from Hanover? :)

((I))

&gt;Think about it. The aliens would probably outbreed the europeans in time, erode the political power of the native population, and threaten the continuation of Europe's cultural and intellectual values. This, in my view, would be disastrous.&lt;

Just like happened in the US. All them furriners come over - Irish, Italians, Jews - and they elected that Roosevelt feller, and he raised the minum wage to 25 cts a HOUR, when you could hire a nigra for only 75 cts a day.

And labor unions

And confixatory taxes - espeshully the death tax.

And did I mention all them Jews taken over the country? and them blacks behaven as if they was white?

and them Messicans now taken jobs from white, god-fearin, christian Amurricans

and all of the 7-11 are owned by Koreans

and all the motels are owned by Pakis

and they won't let us have the Ten Commandments at the court house, but they let furriners take a drivers test in a furrin langwitch

and all a them little embreeos what they wants to murder

the whole country has gone to H**l.

&gt;You're so incredibly idealistic and somewhat disconnected with reality. Not everyone advances so easily in life. &lt;

Of course not.

The Colin Powells, Condi Rices, Ruth Bader Ginsburgs, Joe Liebermans, Thurgood Marshalls, Alberto Gonzalezes, John Kennedys, John Kerrys, Samuel Alitos, etc, etc, etc (sorry if I left anyone out) are outstanding examples.

However, how can we know which immigrants will be important in the future and which will be a drag on the culture and economy?

((I))

thank you for your gracious reply, Rodriguez. Your point is well taken, that there are tendencies to either 1.villify immigrants either as sneaky lawbreakers taking advantage of social services and taking jobs away from &quot;honest&quot; Americans, or 2.idealize them as the hardworking, family oriented, education-minded stuff from which the middle class of a nation inevitably springs. The reality, of course, is mostly what we find in the middle of these two extremes, acknowledging that the extremes represent the range, not outliers.