Florence and Italian hospitality
Jan 12th, 2009, 11:39 AM
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Florence and Italian hospitality
Hello,
We went to Florence a couple of years ago.
Found the city and the food to be wonderful, but the Florentines to be an unfriendly bunch.
We're hoping to go to Rome and the southern part of Italy.
We're told that Italy's friendly and hospitable nature become more apparent the farther south you go.
Has anyone had the same experience? We went to Amsterdam, London and Paris on the same trip as Florence and found the folks there to be more friendly.
Thanks.
We went to Florence a couple of years ago.
Found the city and the food to be wonderful, but the Florentines to be an unfriendly bunch.
We're hoping to go to Rome and the southern part of Italy.
We're told that Italy's friendly and hospitable nature become more apparent the farther south you go.
Has anyone had the same experience? We went to Amsterdam, London and Paris on the same trip as Florence and found the folks there to be more friendly.
Thanks.
Jan 12th, 2009, 12:18 PM
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People talk about this a lot -- including Italians!
In general, world over, rural people tend to be more friendly than urban people, and Firenze is a city. It is also a city that is almost by crushed by tourists, a huge number of whom don't speak Italian, putting quite a strain on everybody. It may seem obvious that people working in a city like that, many of whom are in the tourist service industry, need to be able to cope with non-Italian speakers. But sometimes Italians weary of the effort.
Do you speak Italian?
Rome seldom gets high marks, even from Italians, for being as exuberantly friendly as much of the rest of Italy.
As for the north-south divide, it is embedded in history. For most of its history, northern Italy was ruled by Lombards, Napoleon, Spanish, Germans, Austrians -- and it is the most industrialized part of Italy, most attuned to the clock. The obsession with time, being in hurry, organization and banking isn't so common in southern Italy, where the warmer air, larger families, less education, greater poverty, all combine make people much more reliant upon each other, living closer and -- fewer tourists!
But it is a notoriously chatty and people-loving culture, to the point of dysfunction when you actually are trying to be efficient about anything.
I've never found the Parisians to be friendly -- and of course in Amsterdam and London, there are few problems with language if you're an English-speaker, so that helps.
In general, world over, rural people tend to be more friendly than urban people, and Firenze is a city. It is also a city that is almost by crushed by tourists, a huge number of whom don't speak Italian, putting quite a strain on everybody. It may seem obvious that people working in a city like that, many of whom are in the tourist service industry, need to be able to cope with non-Italian speakers. But sometimes Italians weary of the effort.
Do you speak Italian?
Rome seldom gets high marks, even from Italians, for being as exuberantly friendly as much of the rest of Italy.
As for the north-south divide, it is embedded in history. For most of its history, northern Italy was ruled by Lombards, Napoleon, Spanish, Germans, Austrians -- and it is the most industrialized part of Italy, most attuned to the clock. The obsession with time, being in hurry, organization and banking isn't so common in southern Italy, where the warmer air, larger families, less education, greater poverty, all combine make people much more reliant upon each other, living closer and -- fewer tourists!
But it is a notoriously chatty and people-loving culture, to the point of dysfunction when you actually are trying to be efficient about anything.
I've never found the Parisians to be friendly -- and of course in Amsterdam and London, there are few problems with language if you're an English-speaker, so that helps.
Jan 12th, 2009, 02:08 PM
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Thanks for your reply.
I speak enough Italian to get by.
Though we found Florence to be breathtaking and the food the best we've had on the trip, the people were really off-putting. They kind of turned us off Italy.
We want to give it another chance, and hoping that Rome and southern part will be more friendly. Yes, to tourists that do try to speak the language.
I speak enough Italian to get by.
Though we found Florence to be breathtaking and the food the best we've had on the trip, the people were really off-putting. They kind of turned us off Italy.
We want to give it another chance, and hoping that Rome and southern part will be more friendly. Yes, to tourists that do try to speak the language.
Jan 12th, 2009, 02:14 PM
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Having been to Italy many times, generally speaking we have found this to be our experience. Sicily is the friendliest we have experienced (of course I have not been to every single place in Italy!). It is not just friendliness but sincerity - it seems more genuine as well as laid back.
As mentioned above, getting out of the cities into rural areas affords the real nitty gritty true life (in a good way). We normally spend just a few days in cities on our travels, grab a car and spend the remainder of our time in rural areas. I do not think it is just a Florence thing.
As mentioned above, getting out of the cities into rural areas affords the real nitty gritty true life (in a good way). We normally spend just a few days in cities on our travels, grab a car and spend the remainder of our time in rural areas. I do not think it is just a Florence thing.
Jan 12th, 2009, 02:25 PM
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I'm curious, too. How long did you stay in Firenze?
I've been many times and always been treated as well as in any other part of Europe. I wasn't gushed over and given extra treats like I am on a daily basis elsewhere in Italy.
I think it's common knowledge that Italians are just about the fastest people to try to become your friend in most of Europe. They really have very little reserve. And if you ask them for the slightest favor or bit of help, they often end up doing so much you have to restrain them. I've actually stopped asking for help in Italy with some things in Italy -- like, "Oh could you help me get all these artichokes into my shopping bag?" because the vendor try to carry the bag home for me! "I'm fine! It's Okay! Really!"
Roma, Milano, Firenze -- they're cities, and people hurry more and are more guarded. But Italy is really very warm, and not stand offish. And people don't judge you by whether you have money or where you're from. And they are usually delighted if you make any effort to appreciate their language and culture. They think they live in a beautiful country and enjoy sharing it. But I think you probably have to take a step beyond Roma -- even Italians will roll their eyes at some of the pretensions of Romans -- to find the gaiety of Italian social interaction that is the norm is most parts of Italy.
I've been many times and always been treated as well as in any other part of Europe. I wasn't gushed over and given extra treats like I am on a daily basis elsewhere in Italy.
I think it's common knowledge that Italians are just about the fastest people to try to become your friend in most of Europe. They really have very little reserve. And if you ask them for the slightest favor or bit of help, they often end up doing so much you have to restrain them. I've actually stopped asking for help in Italy with some things in Italy -- like, "Oh could you help me get all these artichokes into my shopping bag?" because the vendor try to carry the bag home for me! "I'm fine! It's Okay! Really!"
Roma, Milano, Firenze -- they're cities, and people hurry more and are more guarded. But Italy is really very warm, and not stand offish. And people don't judge you by whether you have money or where you're from. And they are usually delighted if you make any effort to appreciate their language and culture. They think they live in a beautiful country and enjoy sharing it. But I think you probably have to take a step beyond Roma -- even Italians will roll their eyes at some of the pretensions of Romans -- to find the gaiety of Italian social interaction that is the norm is most parts of Italy.
Jan 12th, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Go to Lecce, Puglia and/or Sulmona, Abruzzo; these are smaller cities with very friendly people, just be patient and visit the same restaurants/bars, (coffee), shops, etc. After a few days you will be good acquaintances, after a week, friends!!!!!!
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:41 PM
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That's just crazy! I've been to Florence 4 times...speak very little Italian and have never thought of the people of Florence as unfriendly or offputting. Quite the contrary. I'm really puzzled as to why several of you feel that way. I can't think of a single time I thought I was being treated unkindly or ignored. Honestly I haven't seen any difference between the way we have been received in Florence and the small villages we have visited.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Jan 12th, 2009, 04:58 PM
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caroltis,
I never feel they're unfriendly or I'm being ignored. But it's a bit like going South in the US and having people be so gregarious and chatty, opening up their homes, being incredibly hospitable, wanting to get cozy and friendly, and make sure you have a good time. It's just not like that in Connecticut. That sort of thing.
But maybe mariat will come back and elaborate.
I never feel they're unfriendly or I'm being ignored. But it's a bit like going South in the US and having people be so gregarious and chatty, opening up their homes, being incredibly hospitable, wanting to get cozy and friendly, and make sure you have a good time. It's just not like that in Connecticut. That sort of thing.
But maybe mariat will come back and elaborate.
Jan 12th, 2009, 05:01 PM
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"Friendly" is such a relative term. The quick "friendly" response of Americans among themselves, warm and well-meant as it can be, making a quick rapport as if they had been pals forever (that's what Americans look like to Europeans) is so contrary to European behavior patterns!
Politeness, of a certain distant and hence respectful, almost formal kind, is paramount. Picture this:
An American in the US drives down a city block and stops, windows down, to ask a person on the sidewalk "Where's the library". Answer: "Two down, turn right." "Thanks" and off they go.
This same scenario in France or Italy would have to sound, translated, like" Good Morning, excuse me, would you happen to be able to tell us which way the library is?"
Friendliness of the palsy buddy-buddy kind that makes US-Americans comfortable is impolite in Europe, it is overly intimate and may be ok after 17 beers in a German harbor town...
Standoffish to Americans, polite and reserved and correct to Europeans - friendliness just is not the same.
Smiling is the same cultural divide. Unless something is funny (and it cannot be among strangers, sharing a joke, that would be too intimate), it is not a natural response.
US-Americans learn to smile when young - just watch the group photos where everybody smiles, young and old. Europeans marvel at that - how can these people smile like that? Some people in Europe have a natural talent for smiling, but most feel stupid doing it, just really awkward.
In Russia it is even less prevalent, there your smile may be mistaken, the natural response might be "what is s/he thinking that's funny about me? Are my pants unzippered? And even if that were so, what's there to smile about?". Your smile may be felt as being downright offensive!
Friendly means being serious, listening politely, and giving the briefest possible correct answer so as not to waste the other person's time. But that, to the average US-American, is the nearest thing to being rude.
Someone who works in a shop where all day long Americans pile in, without saying Good Morning, ignoring the staff, picking at everything, handling the merchandise (all things Europeans are brought up NOT to do), making their loud (!) and often disparaging remarks without regard to anyone who can understand English, but by the same token expecting (or even demanding) that everybody speak English - someone like that must be forgiven for not falling over themselves when yet another American walks in the door, even if, maybe, that one is the exception to the rule and actually knows how to behave?
Politeness, of a certain distant and hence respectful, almost formal kind, is paramount. Picture this:
An American in the US drives down a city block and stops, windows down, to ask a person on the sidewalk "Where's the library". Answer: "Two down, turn right." "Thanks" and off they go.
This same scenario in France or Italy would have to sound, translated, like" Good Morning, excuse me, would you happen to be able to tell us which way the library is?"
Friendliness of the palsy buddy-buddy kind that makes US-Americans comfortable is impolite in Europe, it is overly intimate and may be ok after 17 beers in a German harbor town...
Standoffish to Americans, polite and reserved and correct to Europeans - friendliness just is not the same.
Smiling is the same cultural divide. Unless something is funny (and it cannot be among strangers, sharing a joke, that would be too intimate), it is not a natural response.
US-Americans learn to smile when young - just watch the group photos where everybody smiles, young and old. Europeans marvel at that - how can these people smile like that? Some people in Europe have a natural talent for smiling, but most feel stupid doing it, just really awkward.
In Russia it is even less prevalent, there your smile may be mistaken, the natural response might be "what is s/he thinking that's funny about me? Are my pants unzippered? And even if that were so, what's there to smile about?". Your smile may be felt as being downright offensive!
Friendly means being serious, listening politely, and giving the briefest possible correct answer so as not to waste the other person's time. But that, to the average US-American, is the nearest thing to being rude.
Someone who works in a shop where all day long Americans pile in, without saying Good Morning, ignoring the staff, picking at everything, handling the merchandise (all things Europeans are brought up NOT to do), making their loud (!) and often disparaging remarks without regard to anyone who can understand English, but by the same token expecting (or even demanding) that everybody speak English - someone like that must be forgiven for not falling over themselves when yet another American walks in the door, even if, maybe, that one is the exception to the rule and actually knows how to behave?
Jan 12th, 2009, 07:09 PM
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Just trying to illustrate how a shop employee may respond (or, rather, not respond) and then be one of those reported as "unfriendly" locals... But maybe I'm not making my point as clearly as it should be made?
Jan 13th, 2009, 08:51 AM
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Have been to Florence several times and have always found the people perfectly hospitable.
Not sure what you're expecting. If you mean people rushing out of their way to fawn over you because you're a tourist - or a customer - I think that only happens in places that don't get many of either.
On the other hand, everyone was perfectly polite, pleasant, helpful, willing to answer questions in a friendly way. Perhaps it's that I'm used to a big city. I know sometimes in small towns there's a lot of social interaction in even the most basic transaction - but frankly I find that tiresome and time-wasting - and usually very phony. But I never felt that I was being gotten rid of - or that people didn't want to bother to serve me.
Perhaps you want a very effusive - versus professional - attitude. And I think you're not likely to find that in a sizable city almost anywhere.
Not sure what you're expecting. If you mean people rushing out of their way to fawn over you because you're a tourist - or a customer - I think that only happens in places that don't get many of either.
On the other hand, everyone was perfectly polite, pleasant, helpful, willing to answer questions in a friendly way. Perhaps it's that I'm used to a big city. I know sometimes in small towns there's a lot of social interaction in even the most basic transaction - but frankly I find that tiresome and time-wasting - and usually very phony. But I never felt that I was being gotten rid of - or that people didn't want to bother to serve me.
Perhaps you want a very effusive - versus professional - attitude. And I think you're not likely to find that in a sizable city almost anywhere.
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