Fitting in Marksburg and Rheinfels Castles in One Crusie Day
 

I have one day for a Rhine cruise. Trouble is it's a Mon. ,which makes it difficult on the KD (not as many time options on the KD stops). So I have worked out a plan, but need a seasoned Germany traveler to give me advice:

1. Catch the 9:30 KD from Bingen and go all the way to Braubach arriving 12:20. Tour Marksburg, finishing around 2-2:30.
2. Train from Braubach to St. Goarshausen for a ferry crossing. The schedule would be tight since there is a train @ 3:06 arriving @3:36. Then ferry over to St. Goar. Could I make Rheinfels Castle before closing if I arrive on the 3:36?
3. Alternative would be train to Filsen from Braubach and ferry to Boppard, then train to St. Goar.
4. Last part would be train back to Bingen.

Any advice on details would be greatly appreciated.
Jan

#2 should work fine. If your English tour runs from 1 to 2:00, and the walk down takes 20 min., there's no trouble getting on a 3:06 train. Once in St. G'hausen, walk south a few minutes to the ferry dock. Ferries shuttle over all day long. Walk up to Rheinfels takes maybe 10-15 min. from the dock. Rheinfels museum is open 'til 5, the castle 'til 6.

http://www.st-goar.de/17-1-rheinfels-castle.html

I would suggest boarding the K-d boat in Rudesheim, across the Rhine from Bingen because Rudesheim, being one of Germany's biggest tour bus centers, see groups swarm on board, nabbing the best seats - the ones up front on the railing so that you can see both banks of the river rather than sitting on one side or the other.

Many services commence at Rudesheim - then go to Bingen by which time IME of taking these boats dozens of times, these seats are gone and in peak season many nice seats may be gone.

Not sure how you are going to Bingen - by car? If by train you can take a train to Rudesheim as well - if by car park you car in Rudesheim - take the boat to St Goar, do the castle, then a boat to Marksburg and take a direct train back to Rudesheim from there.

If your day begins in Bingen, then you'll only need train and ferry tickets for your trip from Braubach back to Bingen.

Braubach - St. Goarshausen = €4.65 ea.
St. Goar - Bingen = €5.90 ea.

St. G'hausen - St. Goar by ferry: €1.60 ea.

Total fares = €24.20

However, you may wish to buy a daypass if you have to make other train trips that day as well - 2 adults cost €27 on one Rheinland-Pfalz ticket (daypass.)

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/

Note that the R-P ticket also covers the St. Goar ferry passage.

At the KD kiosk, remember to request the senior discount (30%) for your cruise fare - as I recall, you qualify for that.

Marksburg is a wonderful visit and if your timing is right you can get a tour in English. Rheinfels on the other hand is ruins and IMO not much there although the underground passages can be interesting if you have the time. You can reach Rheinfels either by a a fairly steep walk or there is a little tourist "train" leaving from the pedestrian area of St. Goar. Again, IMO if you miss Rheinfels you haven't missed too much other than a wonderful view, but you also get a great view of the Rhine from Marksburg.

Marksburg is a wonderful visit and if your timing is right you can get a tour in English. Rheinfels on the other hand is ruins and IMO not much there although the underground passages can be interesting if you have the time. You can reach Rheinfels either by a a fairly steep walk or there is a little tourist "train" leaving from the pedestrian area of St. Goar. Again, IMO if you miss Rheinfels you haven't missed too much other than a wonderful view, but you also get a great view of the Rhine from Marksburg.

I did note from previous recommendations, PalenQ, that Rudesheim was a better starting point, but we won't be starting in Rudesheim (unfortunately) since we will arrive in Bingen from Cologne on a very early train that same morning. We then deposit our bags @ the Bingen hotel then go off to catch the KD from there.
It is a relief, Russ, that you think my step 2 is do-able. And thanks for the breakdown on the pricing; and yes we are a couple of seniors.
Since our train originates in Cologne, a Regional Pass won't really work for us since Cologne and Bingen are in separate regions. A quick look at bahn.com said our tickets for 2 would be 59.50 euros for standard fare.
Thank you both for your expert advice.

I forgot to thank basingstoke2 for the comments re. Rheinfels. If we don't have much time there, then I know I probably didn't miss much. All these comments really help!

"Since our train originates in Cologne, a Regional Pass won't really work for us since Cologne and Bingen are in separate regions. A quick look at bahn.com said our tickets for 2 would be 59.50 euros for standard fare."

€60 sounds about right for a standard regional train fare for two; it's slower than the high-speed trains - between 2:10 and 2:50.

If you wish to pin down your travel time you can get there faster and more cheaply with an advance-purchase saver fare. the 6:53 IC train from Cologne arrives at 8:43 at Bingen Hbf - and might cost as little as €29 for two depending on your travel date. To reach Bingen on the regional trains from Cologne, you'd need to leave by around 6:30. Both options require a change in Koblenz.

This may be all personal opinion, but I enjoy Burg Rhinefels a lot more than I did the Marksburg and I have been to both of these castles multiple times. Walking around the mightiest fortress on the Rhine, exploring the tunnels, the view from the towers, all make this my favorite castle to visit.

Check the website for the Marksburg to get the times for the English tours.

If you are worried and stressing out about timing, I would just take the train up the right side of the Rhine to Braubach, tour the Marksburg, train to St. Goarshausen, take the ferry across to St. Goar. Explore Burg Rhinefels and then ride the ship back to Bingen or Rüdesheim. Yes, the ship going this direction takes longer, but so what. It is relaxing just to sit there watching the castles and scenery drift by after a hectic day of sightseeing.

"2. Train from Braubach to St. Goarshausen for a ferry crossing. The schedule would be tight since there is a train @ 3:06 arriving @3:36. Then ferry over to St. Goar. Could I make Rheinfels Castle before closing if I arrive on the 3:36?"

Just noticed what looks like a small error here - the train ride is only 20 minutes, so you probably get to St. G'hausen at 3:26 - which means more cushion time for crossing over to see Rheinfels. Ferries leave St. G'hausen every 15-20 min. - and there's one at 15:40 that you can probably catch if you walk straight down to the dock. Next one is at 16:00.

Mainhattengirl's suggestion is do-able starting from Cologne but will involve fiddling with your luggage all day (TI offices in Braubach and St. Goar typically store bags for visitors.) That's the sort of thing that folks much younger than you would probably wish to avoid.

As M'girl points out, your planned trip does sound a bit fast-paced. I would suggest an alternative.

1. Save some cruise time and money; cruise just the best (IMO) part of the river - Bingen-St. Goar (arr. 10:55; saves 1.5 hours on the river; €19 standard fare vs. €35.20 for Braubach.) You don't really gain that much more by cruising further, IMO.

2.) See Rheinfels and have lunch, maybe at the Landgraf next door or in town:

http://sr47.de/t/pics/03d7dc5beb.jpg

3.) Ferry over to St. G'hausen for the 14:31 train north to Braubach (arrive 14:52.) Visit the old town before taking the shuttle up to Braubach for the 16:00 tour in English. have a meal or some refreshments in town before you leave in Braubach's old town?

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4143/4...980aa49f_o.jpg

4. Return by train via Koblenz to Bingen.

Your best train bet for this option will be the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket mentioned above.

And, plan on 20-30 minute to walk up to the Rheinfels ruins from the ferry dock. It could be longer or shorter if you take the little tourist "train" depending on its schedule. One other option is not to return to Bingen that night. There is a little hotel built into the castle walls and it might be fun to overnight there.

Castle Rheinfels is a ruined castle knocked down by Napoelon's troops in the late 1700s - Marksburg is the only Rhine Gorge Castle in tact - a really medieval castle.

Rheinfels though having a small section in tact that serves as a museum is not largely a fancy restaurant and hotel - ruined castles are a dime a dozen in this area but intact ones are rare. If short on time do Marksburg only and do not overlook Koblenz itself - rather than tracking thru two castles take a look at one and end your trip at Koblenz where right near the boat dock is one of the most famed places in Germany - Deutsches Eck monument.

Deutsches Eck or the Germany Corner - marking the unification of Germany in the 1800s - onec had on it an equestrian statue of Kaiser Wilhelm (I think it were he) but that was blown to smitereens by Amnerican artillery just before the end of WW2 - locals say needlessly done by a bored U S army guy who was camed right opposite the statue - on the site today where there still is a camping (or was last time I was there).

Today the behemoth Plinth - built right at the point the 'Mother Mosel' meets the 'Father' Rhine - hoists something commemorating German Unity.

From this area you can take a pedestrian ferry over to the

http://www.koblenz-touristik.de/en/p...sches-eck.html
https://www.google.com/search?

q=Koblenz+fortress+germany+rhine&es_sm=122&tbm=isc h&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=MbGlU7WiA4OcyAT8nIK4CA &ved=0CEkQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=1075

From this area you can take either a pedestrian ferry or an aerial cable car over to the very imposing Ehrenbreitsen Fortress, impressively crossing right over Deutsches Eck to the very imposing ”Ehrenbreitstein” Fortress, which rises 118 meters above the Rhine river and offers sweeping vies for miles around over the twisting Mosel River and mighty Rhine.

there is also an old castle on top and a museum of the Rhine gorge area.

To me this fortress and views are far more impressive than either Marksburg and especially Rheinfels castles - to Germans they are major sites.

Koblenz itself, though sadly decimated in WW2 has pieced itself back together lovely - check out the impressive Alt Stadt or Old Town square p[eppered with outdoor castles and beer halls and restaurants, etc.

Koblenz also has a long pedestrian shopping street with all the famous Germany stores on it.

To me Koblenz and the fortress and Deutsches Eck are as nice as anything on the Rhine -yet few folks ever go there.

If Koblenz and its unique lures attracts you take the boat to its Koblenz terminus - and stroll along the Rhine Ufer - a boardwalk type walkway right along the Rhine - often thronged with locals walking and dotted by beer stands and wine stands and snack stands, etc - bit like a carnival.

It's a short walk to Deutsches Eck - then if going to the Koblenz train station, walk thru the nearby Altstadt to the station, probably about a mile all told from Deutshceds Eck for trains back to wherever you want to go.

Thanks to all for your comments. Hauling luggage IS the main reason to start in Bingen in order to deposit our luggage at the hotel. And also, a German friend will be picking us up in Bingen the day after.
Russ, your alternative plan to go only as far as St. Goar by boat, then getting over to St. Goarshausen by ferry and on to Braubach by train sounds much better to me. Many have commented that the best part of the Rhine is Bingen to St. Goar, including our German friend.

. Many have commented that the best part of the Rhine is Bingen to St. Goar, including our German friend.>

And IME many folks get quickly bored even with the best of the Rhine - shorter is better for many - just be sure you cruise passes by the famous Lorelei Cliff when all the Germans on board will start singing a famous song associated with the cliff where in German mythology sirens lured boatmen to crash into the sheer cliff to their deaths.

This part of the Rhine Gorge is the most narrow and currents could be tough for boats of old to negotiate.

We will do the plan Russ recommended but we are considering taking a later train from Cologne @ 8:18 so as to not have to be at the train station at the crack-of-dawn. It arrives, without any transfers, in Bingen @ 9:50. Early purchase would be 41 euros for 2.

We would then take the 10:30 KD to St. Goar arriving @ 11:55. That leaves roughly 2 hrs. to see Rheinfels and St. Goar.

We would then take the ferry to St. Goarshausen for the 14:31 to Braubach, leaving plenty of time to get up to Marksburg for the 16:00 English tour.

We could have an early dinner in Braubach, then either catch the 18:23 or later one to Bingen or retrace steps going back to St. Goarshausen and ferry over to St. Goar to spend more time there before catching the train back to Bingen.

Would this worth the effort? I am assuming the Rhineland-Palatinate pass is sold at any station. Thanks, in advance, for any advice.

I see no problem with this plan. You will want to...

1.)... make sure you can handle the walk with your bags from Bingen Hbf station to your hotel (let's hope it's the NH Bingen which is right on your path to the KD dock - it's about 10-15 min. to that hotel on foot) and then without your bags from your hotel to the KD dock. You'll be an hour behind if you miss that 10:30 boat.

2.) ...conclude St. Goar and Rheinfels in a timely way. There's a 13:50 ferry over to St. Goarshausen and a 14:10 ferry after that. With the 14:10 ferry you will probably be able to reach the train station in St. Goarshausen on foot in time for the 14:31 train to Braubach, but that might be a little snug. DB says it's a 9-min walk from the KD dock to the station, so don't dawdle.

"We could have an early dinner in Braubach, then either catch the 18:23 or later one to Bingen or retrace steps going back to St. Goarshausen and ferry over to St. Goar to spend more time there before catching the train back to Bingen."

The 18:23 train you speak of travels north to Koblenz for a 23-min. layover and then you connect to the MRB train heading south along the west bank to Bingen. Takes 1.3 hours altogether.

To head back via St. Goar, catch the 18:06 or 19:06 train south to St. G'hausen...

OR... you might take that 18:06 or 19:06 train south all the way south to Rüdesheim (45 min.) and either look around the town there for a while (and ferry over to Bingen later) or head directly to the ferry dock for the ferry over to Bingen on the Bingen-Rüdesheimer Ferry (€2 each, not covered by the RLP daypass; 19:30, 20:30, 21:30 using the "Personenfähre" or passenger ferry, the one that drops you in the middle of the river promenade in Bingen not far from the NH Bingen hotel. There's a second ferry as well for cars + passengers, but it drops you substantially further upriver.)

The R-P ticket is sold at ticket machines at every station. You will want to have it before you board the ferry in St. Goar at 13:50 (or 14:10.) So you could buy it before you leave Cologne that morning (or the day before, for that matter, in advance for the day following) or at the latest while you are sightseeing in St. Goar (don't try at the Bingen station - your time is too tight at that point, I think.)

Bingen map for your orientation:

http://seniorenwohnen-germaniablick....ort_gross.html

The Bingen Rhein Hbf train station where you arrive from Cologne is on the far left. NH Bingen Hotel is right next to the Rheintal-Kongress-Zentrum and the #10 dock. The Bingen R'heimer passenger ferry dock is Dock #5. The KD dock is #8, I believe (but #8 doesn't isn't notated on this map.)

Just to address the statements about possibly getting bored on a 2 hour Rhine cruise. I have done this boat trip dozens of times and I have never, ever been bored.

If you get bored looking at beautiful scenery, watching the birds, the shadows of the clouds on the vineyards, watching the barges make their way up and down the river and seeing the families that live on them, seeing the small towns hugging the river banks and the towering castles up on their craggy mounts, then I feel sorry for you.