First Trip to France
 

We're in the early planning stages for a 2 or 2 1/2-week trip to France next year. It's our first, so we're open to suggestions. We definitely want to spend a few days in Paris, and we're especially interested in Provence. We will probably arrive in Paris and rent a car as we leave.

Would it be best to limit our trip to Paris and Provence, or could we do justice to another area, such as Burgundy? Also, we're trying to decide whether to go in June or September. We have just returned from a wonderful, but wet, trip to Italy ("high water" in Venice), so we are aware there are no guarantees, but any ideas as to which would afford us the best climate and the least rain?

Getting a lot of rain in June or September (almost anywhere in France) seems rather improbable to me - - but you just returned from Venice (in May?) and had acquae altae? I would have said that it was improbable to experience THAT in May too!

With 14-18 days, I think that sure you can do a shorter stay in Burgundy, en route to Provence. Others may chide you for cutting Paris short, but I see no problem with Paris 5, Burgundy 3, Provence 7 + 1-2 "slush". Even Paris 3 (at the beginning might be fine, if you prefer a more rural/smaller town trip - and maybe plan on adding more Paris at the end if you find you want more.

The days are, of course, longer in June, which I find to be very nice.

Sounds great for either month. Wish it was on my agenda for 2005. Who knows - - maybe it will be! Fodorites' trip 2005, anyone?

Best wishes,

Rex

Rex, you are not the first one to comment on how "rare" our Venice experience was. But most of Western Europe experienced this rather unusual weather front this year. We had rain and horrendous winds in Florence as well. The climate gradually improved while we were in Tuscany, and by the time we hit Rome (mid-May), we had magnificent weather. All in all, we didn't let the unforeseen deter us, but it has made us a bit gun-shy.

Thanks for the advice. My preference is for June, but that's mainly because I'm excited and don't want to wait till September.

Obviously, it depends on personal preference, but would Burgundy be one of the better choices to add to Paris and Provence? My husband has been an avid wine person for many years; my interest leans more toward quaint towns and the picturesque.

Burgundy would be a good add-on. It has quaint picturesque towns . . . and excellent wine. Both of you should be happy.

Rex's itinerary was excellent.

If you do Paris at the beginning of your trip, don't pick up the rental car until you are leaving town. That saves you having to pay for parking in the city. We just take the Metro back out to the airport and pick up our car as we leave Paris. It's worked well for us.

I'll put my vote in for June also. It's a beautiful time of year. Spring is such a hopeful season . . . and you don't have to wait until September! ((@))

Since you experienced unusual weather in Venice you are aware that weather can never be predicted. That said, either June or September should be lovely in Paris and Provence. September would be my choice. The kids are back in school, it's warm enough to swim, and there is USUALLY less rain than in June. There is, of course, the mistral, which seems to like to pop up in early fall.
I'd spend a few days - like 5 - in Paris, then take the TGV to Lyon and spend maybe 3 days there, without a car unless you want to explore Burgundy, which wouldn't be a bad thing to do. Then either drive to Provence or take the TGV on to Avignon and drive around the Bouche-du-Rhône area of Provence for a few days. Then drop off the car, take the TGV back to Paris, and head for home. With luck, you can get PREM's fares on the TGV, making the train travel very inexpensive.

A couple of suggestions: take the TGV directly from Charles de Gaulle Airport to Avignon (3-hour trip), get your car there, use St.-Remy-de-Provence as your base for touring western Provence. Stay at Le Mas des Carassins, an easy 10-minute walk from the center of town - a great 3-star inn with pool and restaurant, and helpful staff. You can access major villages of the Luberon (Rousillon, Gordes, Ansouis, Bonnieux, etc.) and other sights (Pont du Gard, Les Baux, van Gogh's asylum, etc.) from there, and St. Remy provides a weekly market, a couple of good regional museums and fine restaurants and shops. Go to Lyon if you are interested in great food and a medieval precinct within a major 21st century city. Stayin the Old Town, at La Tour Rose if you want to splurge, and try any of the surrounding restaurants (we had a great dining experience at Notre Maison, also in the old quarter). Then spend the last part of the trip, at least 4 days, in Paris, sans automobile (return it in Lyon and take the TGV back to Paris). Hotels too numerous to mention (tho' for the first visit you should be in the 1st, 6th or 7th arrondisement) but try Fodor's Rivage Hotels of Character and Charm in Paris for suggestions, and check the Trip Advisor website for user reviews. Side trips to Chartres (west) and Riems (east) worthwhile. Planning is half the fun so read a lot and talk to others who have been there. And please - ignore those stupid posts in this forum about rude Parisians. Have a great trip.

I also agree that Paris, Burgundy and Provence in 2 and half weeks is good. And that last suggestion of saving Paris for last is not bad. I've done it with Paris first, but I love Paris so much I can't wait till the end of a trip for it. A couple of friends of mine just did that trip and they said it was great getting on the train at CDG and using that first day (usually a bit jet lagged) to just veg out on the train to Avignon.

How do you feel about staying in one place versus moving every so often. Most people tell you to pick only two or three spots and do day trips but I would suggest a few nights in central Provence (Avignon area), a couple in Aix (or you could combine those two) and then a few in the Cote d/Azure (I recommend Vence). Then head up through Burgundy. I haven't been to Lyon so can't comment, but there are many small towns worth staying in for a few days.

Then drop the car at Orly once you get to Paris. We did that on the way back from Burgundy and it was very simple. Easy public transportation into Paris central (and closer than CDG if you're the cab type). I would leave at least four full days for Paris though.

You're going to get many suggestions for different configurations for this trip. We on this board love to live vicariously through others by planning their trips to places we love, and France is much loved.

Burgundy is a lovely region to visit, and it's a nice transition between Paris and Provence. Burgundian food and wines are wonderful, as I'm sure you know, and the countryside is beautiful. I'd suggest spending several days there and visiting Vézelay, Dijon, Autun, and Beaune on your way south. If you want detailed information on Burgundy, let me know and I'll give you some links.

I agee that, if you have 2 1/2 weeks, Paris, Provence and Burgundy sound wonderful. I would prefer September but for one thing. Late in June, the lavender should be blooming in Provence. You note that this is your first trip to France. If that is the case, I would want to spend at least 6 or 7 days in Paris, 7 in Provence and 3 in Burgundy. We found it easier to take the TGV south and rent the car in Avignon. Find a place in Provence with a pool (3gigs has some great ideas)and explore Provence from there. It is wonderful to return to your hotel after a busy day and spend a bit of time relaxing by the pool. You will love France!

On our first trip south from Paris we drove, and because of that we saw so much that we would have missed had we taken the train: most of Burgundy and the beautiful drive through the Rhône Valley.

So much of France is wonderful, but I would highly recommend the far NE - Alsace - the folks are great and the food and wine are world class.
The towns/vills on the Route de Vins are a trip back to the 17th Century.
M

<<we drove, and because of that we saw so much that we would have missed had we taken the train:...>>

Brings back a fond reminiscence of a great place for lunch: La Beursaudiere near Nitry - - I have posted about this place previously.

I appreciate all the excellent advice and opinions. I think I have my homework cut out for me. Is Dordogne worth considering in addition to/or instead of Burgundy?

Also, I notice that with the exception of one poster, everyone seems to tout traveling from Paris to our other chosen locations by train rather than by car. Is this more a matter of saving time, or is driving in France particularly difficult, or what?

With the amount of time you have, Paris and one or two other regions will be plenty. I would not recommend adding the Dordogne but you might do some research to see whether you would like to substitute it for Burgundy.

ms sue:

I'd stick to three places total, including Paris. Do check out the Dordogne, though. You might find you'd be more interested in that region than in Burgundy - or not. It's certainly an option, though.

Driving in France isn't difficult, but it is different from driving in the USA, and I think some people find it intimidating. Driving in and into an dout of Paris makes some people panicky. If you have any qualms at all, I'd take the train to your second destination, whether it be Burgundy or the Dordogne, pick up your car there, and then enjoy the drive to Provence. At the end of your trip I'd suggest ditching the car in Provence andtaking the TVG back to Paris - it's just so much more efficient that way.

I shouldn't/wouldn't speak for the train advocates, but my reading is that others favor driving one way, train the reverse. Perhaps due more to the painlessness (and speed) of the train, not due to the pain of the drive. Presumably you will have already enjoyed a look at what there is to see by car on the way down.

Underhill, I'd love to see those links for detailed info on Burgundy.

Here's one, the first article on Burgundy that I did for the bonjourparis.com web site. Note that things have changed at Bouilland: the chef moved to Provence last spring, but the new owner has retained the Michelin star for the restaurant.

http://www.bonjourparis.com/pages/ol...articleId=1215

As soon as I find Part II of the series I'll post it for you.

Other articles can be found--I hope--at the same part of the site (Provence and Brittany mostly, but also one on Villages Fleuris).

Thanks Underhill, we can always count on you to deliver the goods.

Underhill, thanks for that link. I've bookmarked it.

I agree with StCirq:

Get a rail pass and see the country by train. All that driving and the maps and the planning and the insurance are WORK. Park your bags in Paris and take day trips to the provinces. The train service in France is efficient and comfortable. You don't have to move out of a hotel and get settled every day or three. You can get almost anywhere in the northern half of the country and be back in Paris by late evening.

After you've seen enough of the north, move your base of operations to the south and carry on as before.

By riding instead of driving, you maximize the return on your outlay. Instead of spending all day driving somewhere, you save most of the travel time and arrive refreshed hours earlier.

Bon voyage!

To each their own, but with time schedules to follow and having to be in a certain place at a certain time, I find train travel to much like going to work. To save a too-long drive I'll occasionally take the train, but I find the freedom of driving much more enjoyable.

Here's the link to the second article on Burgundy, along with the one on Villages Fleuris for good measure.

http://www.bonjourparis.com/pages/ol...articleId=1477
http://www.bonjourparis.com/pages/ol...articleId=1392

I do agree with RonZ, especially when train travel is on a TGV--you really can't enjoy the scenery along the way because of the train's speed. One of the big joys of travel is meandering through areas you haven't seen before and getting a feel for the life there. Also, not all those charming little villages and inns are reachable by train.

Lots of various replies to this question.. Car vs. train is a personal thing....We almost always have a car and enjoy the freedom, the small villages, and getting to know the feeling of the country. 3 gigs has some good ideas. Train to Avignon (from Paris downtown station). Rent car in Avignon for getting around Provence (or wherever, coast etc) then make your way back up to Paris at the end by car, passing through wherever you want,...(Annecy alps, burgundy, dordogne, or what you missed going down etc), and turn in the car whichever airport you are flying out of. We turned a car in at Orly once,it's south of Paris(and it was VERY simple)....Charles De Gaulle is Northeast,..but you could drive around to it! What a wonderful trip, and you will see a lot in "2 plus" weeks. AND if, at the end of your trip, you are leaving on a weekend you can get a wonderful,low rate at some airport hotels....Marriott especially......and a good place to "organize" going home luggage and a comfortable nights rest. (No matter what milder accommocations you might have had on the rest of the trip)

We just returned from our 10 day trip. Several days in Paris, took the TGV to Avignon, stayed inside the walled city, picked up a rental car from the TGV Gare (train station) on the way out of town, wandered around Provence, made our way down to the French Riveria, stayed mostly in Cannes (because the beach was sandy there) and flew out of Nice. Loved EVERY part of it! Walking in Paris. TGV through the countryside (glad we didn't make that long drive from Paris), "getting lost" in Provence meant seeing towns I didn't expect to see, and loved soaking up the sun on the beach. Loved the Hotel Windsor (3 star/economical) in Nice.
Enjoy the trip!

If you are getting a car for 17 days or more, you can lease it and there is no VAT and insurance is included. We use Peugeot and yes, we get an automatic. They have 24 hour service and it is excellent.

We prefer the freedom of being able to go where we want when we want. The only time we don't lease a car is if we are visiting mainly cities on a particular trip. Cars and cities don't go well together because of parking costs. They're really unnecessary in town anyway.

If time was a major factor, I would take the train, but if you are more concerned with flexibility, rent or lease a car.
(@))

It's my opinion that when leaving Paris, that if the first destination is less than about a two hour drive, that it is easier to just drive out of the city rather than take a train. It is also useful to plan how many hours of driving between hotels one is willing to endure, then use mappy [which we prefer] to work out routes.

To train or to car - that is the question. Frankly, its no debate at all as far as I'm concerned. You will DEFINATELY want a car to explore the hill towns of Provence. The only question is where do u pick up your car? My thought would be to experience the high speed train(TGV) from Paris to Dijon. Rent a car in Dijon and take a leisurely drive (3 days?) through Burgandy to Provence. As someone said previously, divide your time up something like this: 5 days Paris, 3 days Burgundy, 7 days or more in Provence. Then drive the Riviera to Nice for a couple of days and fly home from Nice (no sense going all the way back to Paris). Whatever you decide will be fantastic! Have fun!

Very helpful info, alfiesquestion. I appreciate your (and everybody's) responses.

I had been thinking along the lines of five nights/four days in Paris, but maybe you're right. If we went to Versailles, would that pretty much take up one of those days?

alfiesquestion's suggested itinerary is similar to one we took one year (except we started with time in Italy): we spent 5-6 days in Provence, 2 days in Burgundy, then a couple of days in Paris (we'd been there before).

We drove from Provence to Burgundy - I remember it seeming like a long drive, but that was probably partly due to a horrific rainstorm that we swam our car through on the way there.

I'm not a big wine buff, my husband is, but I felt there isn't a huge variety to do or see in Burgundy. I also felt the cuisine wasn't as varied as it is in Paris, Provence or the Dordogne. Our two days was just right for us.

From Burgundy (Dijon) we took the high-speed train at Paris. We probably could have driven, but we were dropping the car anyway (no need for it in Paris), so it seemed to make sense to get rid of it and enjoy the train ride - which we did.

I would love to recommend the Dordogne instead of Provence. We visited the Dordogne two years ago, and I enjoyed it more than Provence. The history is interesting, with lots of castles and prehistoric sites, and the food is great (especially if you like fois gras). The only downside is that it's harder to fit the Dordogne, geographically, into a trip to Provence and Paris. (We tried to fit the Dordogne in our Provence trip, and ended up deciding to visit the Dordogne in a separate trip.)

Lexma90, I have heard others tout the Dordogne. Since our trip sounds as if it might be a bit longer than yours, I wonder whether it could be added. If we spent five or six days in Paris, two in Burgundy, and five in Provence, that might leave us with five or six days. Do you know whether that might be enough to add the Dordogne, or would we perhaps be overextending ourselves?

A question that will really show my ignorance: if we flew into Paris, could we fly out of the Dordogne area instead of Nice (as suggested by alfiesquestion). If not, then that would mean another day of driving time.

Ms sue - We spent 15 nights in France, flying into Nice, driving through Provence and the Dordogne for 9 of these nights, and spending the last 4 in Paris including a day in Versailles. If you want to know what this pace feels like and what you will do, do a search for my trip report Southern France to Paris, London.

There might be a Ryanair or similar budget airline flight to Paris out of a place near the Dordogne, but it is quite easy to train to Paris from the Dordogne - either Perigeux, or my own preference, Limoges (just north of the Dordogne.)

Well, ms. sue, as one of the most committed Dordogne-ophiles on the planet, I wouldn't hesitate to steer you in that direction. It's a long drive (6-7 hours to the heart of the Dordogne (Sarlat area) from Provence, but do-able in a day.

As for flying out of the Dordogne, there are airports in Périgueux and Bergerac (as well as Toulouse and Bordeaux, but those are much farther away). You could also drive to Bordeaux (3 hours) and take the TGV back to Paris, or you could leave the car in Périgueux and take the regular train back to Paris. Apart from flying, no matter how you arrange the train travel, it takes the better part of a day to get back to Paris.

Five-six days in the Dordogne is certainly adequate to cover most of the things a first-timer would want to see - castles, caves and other prehistsoric sights, markets, abbeys, bastide towns, etc.

If you do decide to head into the Dordogne I'd be more than happy to make further recommendations.

StCirq is the expert on the Dordogne - her information and observations were what first led us to consider the area. She just gave you great info on timing and routes. When we went to that area, we took the TGV from Paris to Bordeaux, and on our return, drove back to Bordeaux (tedious drive from the heart of the Dordogne), then took the TGV back up to Paris. We just didn't have the time, as you pointed out, on our Italy/France trip for that 6-7 hour trip from Provence to the Dordogne.

Anyway, I'll second or third that it looks like you have time to visit Paris, Burgundy, Provence and the Dordogne, you lucky person. (And I love Provence, too, just loved the Dordogne more. Partly because there were fewer Americans.)

I won't go on and on (though I could), but you may find the Dordogne the best part of your trip! There are a few good Dordogne threads going right now, to help you with ideas for that area.

"If we went to Versailles, would that pretty much take up one of those days?"

Not necessarily. You can easily see the royal apartments and the gardens in half a day if you don't stop and contemplate every portrait and rose blossom. There's enough in Versailles for a <u>very</u> long day, but you can get the feel of the place in a morning. Get there early on the RER to Versailles Rive Gauche, and you can be back at l'Opera for a late, leisurely lunch.

One way to get to the Dordogne area from Paris is to take the TGV to Angouleme, and then drive south from there. Brantome is a good first night stop.