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-   -   First Trip To Europe (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/first-trip-to-europe-1705010/)

Sassafrass Feb 20th, 2022 09:06 AM

Good thoughts from CherylDewson. In Italy, for lunch, we just watch for places as we walk around.
Dinner is different. People reserve for dinner. Wait staff and chefs prepare for a given number, even at small restaurants. They may look empty, but have all tables booked ahead. While they may take walk-ins, sometimes they can’t, and if they do, you will not always get the same service. Even calling just a few minutes ahead, or if you see a place you like, stopping in and making a reservation for a half hour to an hour later is OK. Then when you return for dinner, you will be greeted warmly, have a good table and get good service. It is the custom and polite thing to do in Italy.

crellston Feb 20th, 2022 09:44 AM

I will restrict my comments to London as it is a long time since I have been to Paris and I have never been to Naples or Rome.

Three full days in London will allow you time to see quite a lot if you plan your time well. I would also ensure that with that amount of time, you restrict yourself to London. In one post above I see mention of attractions like Harry Potter World, Windsor Castle , Hampton Court.. all great palces but none are actually in London and although within striking distance, they would each use up too much time to make them viable in three days. Stick to the main sights within central London. There is more than enough to keep you busy in town the whole time. Our museums and galleries are world class but can take a lot of time. Be very selective on what you and your family want to see and take note of where the museums and galleries are located so as to fit them into a logical route.

Fortunately our public transport system is excellent (assuming it’s is still in business next week!!!) so getting around town is quick and easy as long as yo7 familiarise yourself in advance. The underground is preferred by many but buses are easy and will allow you to see more, especially from the top deck.

Happy to suggest places to eat etc. but it would be useful to know your tastes and budget and locations.

Happy planning!

bilboburgler Feb 20th, 2022 09:52 AM

Packing tips

Get everyone to layout on their bed what they want to bring.

Halve it

tomboy Feb 20th, 2022 10:48 AM

The original poster says it's his first trip to europe

He just might not be aware that HOHO means hop on, hop off bus, meant for tourists, with a fixed/all day fare enabling multiple re-boardings during a day.

MaxAlexander Feb 20th, 2022 10:48 AM

I live in Rome. Regarding 1.5 days in Naples it all depends on what you want to do. I go there often on day trips for menswear shopping (bespoke tailors) but clearly that's not your goal nor do you have enough time to get a suit made. There are great museums, especially the National Archeological Museum (where you will see many of the treasures found in Pompeii). Fun walking areas especially in the so-called Spanish Quarter along the Spaccanapoli (don't miss the side street with all the handmade wooden nativity figures) and of course pizza although I prefer thin-crust Roman style which does not exist in Naples. Pompeii would eat up most of a day and is well worth it, but then you can return to Naples for dinner and strolling. I would avoid Capri which has been ruined by tourism and will take a whole day, just to walk with the mobs past the usual luxury-brand designer shops that exist everywhere. You don't have enough time for the Amalfi Coast which is also packed with tourists in summer. Do you have an expensive watch? Leave it at the hotel. In the safe. Even in the daytime. The thieves in Naples can smell them a block away. Naples is beautiful but "earthy." Pay attention to your surroundings and belongings, and you will be fine. (I'm from NYC, trust me it's not the same.)

While we're on the subject of crime, in both Rome and Naples when dining outside along a street, do not ever leave a handbag or backpack dangling from a chair that is alongside the road; move it to the inner chair (often the waiters will remind you). This is not urban myth. I have seen these scooter thieves in action, as recently as two months ago in an upscale non-tourist neighborhood in Rome. Be careful on crowded buses especially the 64 in Rome which connects Termini to the Vatican and is thus popular with tourists and pickpockets. Not to scare you, just stay aware. Most theft in Italy is opportunistic and non-violent; if they see you are paying attention they will look for a more clueless victim. I'm sure you will have a great time, enjoy the country.

janisj Feb 20th, 2022 10:54 AM

" . . . although within striking distance, they would each use up too much time to make them viable in three days" . . . that was my point, there is waaaay too much of interest for families in London to try it in three days.

And with the issues of tube works closures, traffic, crowds, etc -- even seeing a 'lot' in very central London isn't easy. The normal rule of thumb is two major sites a day with maybe a smaller or minor place nearby squeezed in. Taking into account travel times, opening times (typically 10 AM to 5 or 6 PM). and a meal, two biggies is all one can hope to fit in. Anything else is gravy. So something like Tower of London from opening through lunch time and then on to another major site in the mid afternoon. Or British Museum -- could take two hours or could take all day depending on one's interests but let's use three hrs. 10-1 then lunch, then transit, then another site in the mid afternoon. And so on. So three days = 6 or 7 major sites. Simple logistics makes anything more than that a mad run and no fun for anyone.

IF one is absolutely limited to 3 days another option is not trying to 'do' London. Don't have a daily laundry list to check off - you could have maybe ONE major site a day that every one agrees is a must. The Tower, maybe the British Museum, maybe Hampton Court Palace or the V&A -- whatever the family wants to see. The rest of the time enjoy the parks, or watch the buskers in Covent Garden, or take a Thames cruise. or go to Borough Market - or hit another major site if it is close by. Enjoy being in London.


KTtravel Feb 20th, 2022 03:22 PM

You probably already plan to do this, but I would have your kids do some of the research and pick out a site in each place which they really want to see.

Sassafrass Feb 20th, 2022 03:38 PM

https://www.thisispaddington.com/art...-little-venice

In addition to a play at the Globe, this was by far one of the most fun things we have done in London. We took it from Little Venice to the big outdoor market in Camden Locks. Some of the houseboats are really pretty. It was seeing a tiny slice of life on a canal. It was such a contrast, going from the intimate, quiet peace of the canal to the noisy, busy market. We have been on many rivers and boats. The canal was the most lovely and memorable.

alandavid Feb 21st, 2022 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by jeffbowen9449 (Post 17334863)
We have booked our first trip to Europe this summer. We are so excited. It will be my wife and I with our 14 and 17 year old daughters.

I have booked my flights and airbnb/VRBO's already so our trip outline is set. This message board seems to have quite a bit of helpful people with experience traveling to these areas, so I thought I would share our schedule and see if any of you had good ideas for can't miss stops or places to eat aside from all the top rated tourist attractions (we will definitely make stops at the big attractions).

Any other travel or packing tips would be appreciated also.

Here is our itenerary:

June 10th- fly from Chicago to London (overnight)
June 11-15- London
Train from London to Paris
June 15-19- Paris
Flight from Paris to Rome
June 19-22- Rome
Train from Rome to Naples
June 22-24 Naples
Flight from Naples to Chicago

Thank you in advance for you help.

We actually did a similar trip for our firt trip to Europe with our 2 teen daughters. Like you, we'd traveled all of the US and wanted to see as much of Europe as we could.
Like many mentioned, you're packing in a lot. We did the same, but still enjoyed it, and have been back to Europe 4 more times and did differently each time.
You're basically doing the "Grand Tour" that millions of Americans have done!

The advantage of apartment rental is space (you'll need it!). You do lose the assistance of a hotel concierge, which is quite helpful on your 1st visit. You'll probably do fewer of your own meals than you think, because there's so many great dining options.

London
Check out the 2FOR1 site (and print 2 sets of vouchers for anything you might want to visit before you leave). Must be tied to having a National Rail Pass (which you'll use anyway). We saved hundreds by using them.
Hit the Tower of London right when it opens (smaller crowd and much easier to see the crown jewels, plus the Beefeaters are friendlier at th beginning of their shift).
I loved the Churchill War Rooms while my wife/girls did high tea nearby.
Show up in the theatre district right before curtain & get unclaimed tickets (or desperate scalpers).
Expect to get rained on (mini-umbrellas)

-save an afternoon midtrip for doing laundry to cut down on your baggage (everyone overpacks the first time.

Rome
RomeCabs, or another car service from the airport right to your lodging (with 4 & luggage, its worth it)
Earliest tour possible for the Vatican (worth paying extra) or the crowd will be stiffling. Climb to the top of St Peter's Dome (& stop at the coffee/wine shop on the roof on the way back down).
Most of Rome is walkable if you're fit. Hail a cab if you get tired.
Hoard the 50c/1/2 euro coins for pay toilets.
We like the Trevi Fountain at night the best. Stroll over after dinner.
Pickpockets in the touristy area (not scary, but be aware of bumps/misdirections while hands reach from elsewhere).
Your teen girls will be targets for Italian boys, who are more prone to touch them than in the US. A stern "no" is necessary.
If you sit to dine, expect it to take much longer than in the US (which can be nice), but if pressed for time, you'll need to ask for the check.
For gelato/coffee, you'll pay more if you sit. Get it to go!

Your trip is city-heavy. If you're not from a big city, you'll be fatigued by the end.

Naples
Your kids will prefer going to Pompeii vs staying in the city.
Ride the Circumvesuviana (local train) right to the Pompeii Ruins. Take a guided tour. Visit the Archeologic Museum in Naples after to see what used to be in Pompeii.
Naples is smaller, but "rougher" as you walk the streets.


SusanG Feb 21st, 2022 06:29 AM

So, a couple of things. You haven't mentioned what you really love to do (or your girls love to do). I agree with the previous poster about having them do some research and pick one place in each spot. Secondly, there is a post in here about crime. This a critical point. Your ladies should be wearing cross body bags that fit snugly against their sides/front. My rule of thumb? I never let anyone come within 10 feet of me. If you go to the Trevi fountain, go super early. Google a video of pickpockets at the Trevi, and don't let anyone near you. Naples...don't walk close to the road, as cycle thieves can grab a purse handle and take off. I also never, ever carry all my cards/cash with me. There are safes in your rooms for a reason. Carry E80 in cash in a couple of pockets and one card in your wallet when you are out. Leave all else in the safe. Lastly - almost every large site in London, Italy and France (including the Vatican) will have a "skip the line" tour OR a way you can buy "skip the line" tickets. These are essential. I was in London for the first time in 20 years and thought "Oh I want to go to Westminster Abbey." Didn't think to buy a ticket. The line looked like it might be a 6 hour line. I am sure this will be a trip you guys will never forget. Enjoy

MaxAlexander Feb 21st, 2022 06:41 AM

Well...keeping 10 feet away from others in central Rome or Naples is not really practical, especially in summer, even early. And as a resident I would say also not necessary as long as you practice what the military calls "situational awareness." I live in the center of Rome. Every day I see tourists with their faces buried in maps or phones, bags draped carelessly over shoulders, paying no attention to their surroundings. I get it, there's a lot to see and it's charming, but a little common sense goes a long way. I don't want to make Italy sound like a seething hotbed of crime--it's not. But it's a poor country by Western standards, especially in the south, and it got poorer with Covid. Unemployment in Naples among young men is something like 30 percent. I'm usually on my bicycle but when I walk I never stick my phone in my back pocket. I walk around often with a few hundred euros in my front trouser pocket which would be difficult to pick, but almost everywhere in Italy now takes, and indeed prefers, credit and debit cards. So you don't need a lot of cash.

MaxAlexander Feb 21st, 2022 06:47 AM


Originally Posted by alandavid (Post 17335582)
We actually did a similar trip for our firt trip to Europe with our 2 teen daughters. Like you, we'd traveled all of the US and wanted to see as much of Europe as we could.
Like many mentioned, you're packing in a lot. We did the same, but still enjoyed it, and have been back to Europe 4 more times and did differently each time.
You're basically doing the "Grand Tour" that millions of Americans have done!

The advantage of apartment rental is space (you'll need it!). You do lose the assistance of a hotel concierge, which is quite helpful on your 1st visit. You'll probably do fewer of your own meals than you think, because there's so many great dining options.

London
Check out the 2FOR1 site (and print 2 sets of vouchers for anything you might want to visit before you leave). Must be tied to having a National Rail Pass (which you'll use anyway). We saved hundreds by using them.
Hit the Tower of London right when it opens (smaller crowd and much easier to see the crown jewels, plus the Beefeaters are friendlier at th beginning of their shift).
I loved the Churchill War Rooms while my wife/girls did high tea nearby.
Show up in the theatre district right before curtain & get unclaimed tickets (or desperate scalpers).
Expect to get rained on (mini-umbrellas)

-save an afternoon midtrip for doing laundry to cut down on your baggage (everyone overpacks the first time.

Rome
RomeCabs, or another car service from the airport right to your lodging (with 4 & luggage, its worth it)
Earliest tour possible for the Vatican (worth paying extra) or the crowd will be stiffling. Climb to the top of St Peter's Dome (& stop at the coffee/wine shop on the roof on the way back down).
Most of Rome is walkable if you're fit. Hail a cab if you get tired.
Hoard the 50c/1/2 euro coins for pay toilets.
We like the Trevi Fountain at night the best. Stroll over after dinner.
Pickpockets in the touristy area (not scary, but be aware of bumps/misdirections while hands reach from elsewhere).
Your teen girls will be targets for Italian boys, who are more prone to touch them than in the US. A stern "no" is necessary.
If you sit to dine, expect it to take much longer than in the US (which can be nice), but if pressed for time, you'll need to ask for the check.
For gelato/coffee, you'll pay more if you sit. Get it to go!

Your trip is city-heavy. If you're not from a big city, you'll be fatigued by the end.

Naples
Your kids will prefer going to Pompeii vs staying in the city.
Ride the Circumvesuviana (local train) right to the Pompeii Ruins. Take a guided tour. Visit the Archeologic Museum in Naples after to see what used to be in Pompeii.
Naples is smaller, but "rougher" as you walk the streets.

Pay toilets in Rome now generally cost 1 euro, if you can find one. Much better: spend the same amount for a coffee in a bar, then use their toilet for free.

Most things of tourist interest in Rome are close together and walkable but not everything. It's a long way from the Colosseum to Piazza Navona, and further to the Vatican. Plus you'll be walking within museums and sites. Taxis are economical for 4 people, which would cost 6 euros anyway on the bus, but not all taxis can fit 4 and with Covid they won't let anyone sit in front.

Just take a regular white taxi from the airport (one of the minivan types), you don't need a car service. It's a flat rate of 45 euros anywhere within the city walls.

alandavid Feb 21st, 2022 07:25 AM


Originally Posted by MaxAlexander (Post 17335591)
...Just take a regular white taxi from the airport (one of the minivan types), you don't need a car service. It's a flat rate of 45 euros anywhere within the city walls.

True, but with a car service, there will be someone waiting with your name on a sign (right now, just outside the terminal), help with your bags, a cleaner vehicle, and no long queue in the taxi line at the airport. For 50-55 euros, not a bad deal.

If your staying near Termini station, the Leonardo Express train is the way to go (but will need to lug your own bags).

MaxAlexander Feb 21st, 2022 07:28 AM

Four people on the train will cost 56 euros. Take a taxi for less, or for the same as the train tickets, a reserved car service if you prefer.

alandavid Feb 21st, 2022 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by MaxAlexander (Post 17335604)
Four people on the train will cost 56 euros. Take a taxi for less, or for the same as the train tickets, a reserved car service if you prefer.

Mini-group ticket for 4 is 40 euros, but we only choose this option if staying right by Termini, or catching a train to Florence/Naples.
No faster way to Termini & great if its close to rush hour, or there's traffic congestion, but rolling bags down the uneven streets sucks if you're not by the train station!

KTtravel Feb 21st, 2022 09:41 AM

Paris: two musts that I have to do every time I am there are: L'Orangerie museum and Sainte-Chapelle. These may not appear on everyone's top 10 list but there are on mine. There is so much to see and do there that you will have to pick and choose. The Eiffel Tower can be visited on night and is particularly lovely then as its lights sparkle for 5 minutes every hour on the hour. Its also nice to leave something to do at night when most other places are closed.

kerouac Feb 21st, 2022 10:41 AM

This is a pretty good thread because even though I have lived in Paris for more than 40 years, I am finding good advice that I can use, particularly for Italy (even though I have been there many times but not yet to Naples, even though I've seen Pompeii).

MaxAlexander Feb 21st, 2022 11:14 AM

The group train ticket is a good point, but with four people I would still spend another five euros and take a taxi. Especially if they're not staying near Termini. (I hope not.) I take the train back and forth FCO-Termini by myself all the time, but four people with luggage I would not.

jeffbowen9449 Feb 21st, 2022 11:41 AM

There is some really good info being passed along here thanks everyone so much.

I know we have way too much planned, but we will no doubt trim off some stops to accommodate time adjustments needed.

We are looking forward to the city experiences in the 3 different countries. We live around Louisville, KY so not a big city, but we loved NYC when we visited in 2019 and visited Los Angeles last October, so we have some experiences there. I am sure these European cities will be very different from those, but also similar. We are not planning on driving anywhere, only using public transportation or taxi's. So any more advice on getting around would be awesome.

Here is some additional info for our "Taste of Europe" trip:

London- We arrive at 8am and plan to keep moving so we get on local time quicker. Any advice on how to handle the time change upon arrival? Flying into Heathrow. Our Airbnb is right next to The Oval. Planning to group our 3 days by parts of town as best we can. Looking at Sunday looks like a few places are closed, so we are trying to plan around some of that, but it looks like we should be able to get all the big attractions in. Any chance we get, we plan to pay for the skip the line at attractions. We will buy tickets in advance for popular attractions so that we hopefully don't get stuck somewhere for hours in a line. Any other city of London specific things to watch out for other than just typical big city stuff? We are taking the Eurostar to Paris. How long should we plan on getting there early. Our train is at 9:22am. Website says 90 minutes.

Paris- Coming into Paris at Gare du Nord. Our Airbnb is close to Moulin Rouge. We booked this apartment specifically because it had a washer/dryer so that about 5-6 days in we could wash our clothes. I appreciate the packing advice to pack less. That is good advice. Again trying to bundle attractions by areas as much as possible in Paris. My family love Disney so we are debating on visiting Disney Paris 1 day. If for no other reason to do something different for a day besides touring. We know it is overpriced and all that, but my girls love that over here and would probably pick that as their 1 thing over there to do. My wife followed (roughly) a 3 day itenerary she found online for paris. We will walk a decent amount but looks like we can hit all the big attractions. Again, using the skip the line option as much as possible. We are debating on the museum pass or any of the city pass options also. We fly out of Orly to Rome. Any advice on best/cheapest/fastest ways to get there from Moulin Rouge area would be appreciated. Also, we are flying on a Sunday, so that helps as someone mentioned earlier as more things are closed on sundays.

Rome- We fly into FCO. A few earlier mentioned different options to get into town from there. Our VRBO in Rome is literally right next to the Pantheon, so not real close to the Termini. Would a cab/hired car/or train be best/cheapest/fastest? Our 2 days in Rome we are going to try to do Colosseum/Forum one day and Vatican the next (or switched order). There are other things we will no doubt see there as well. A friend mentioned a cooking class, so we will likely learn how to cook up some delicious pasta somewhere local and eat it up. Looks like fun.

Naples- We will take a morning train to Naples. Our VRBO is close to the Piazza Cavour station. Truthfully, I am less interested in staying in Naples to tour and visit. It sounds like there is some good pizza we need to try and some pretty good picture spots with the harbour and Mt Vesuvius in the back ground. But mainly we want to visit Pompeii. Thus the apartment across from the train station that goes directly there. Plus, we visit quite a few national parks in the US, so hiking up Mt Vesuvius sounds intriguing to me (but on day 13 not sure if we will have the strength left at that point). Now upon more research, the Amalfi coast looks incredible, so I'm not sure if we will be able to, but I'd love to get over there if not for more than to sit down for a meal and take in the views. Since this is a "taste of Europe" trip, Italy itself is likely its own return trip where we could stay for a few days and enjoy more. For a day and a half, we will be very limited in what we can squeeze in.

We will no doubt be exhausted from this trip, but I've asked our girls if there are things they want to do and they have made suggestions. When you have teenagers they say things like, can we visit this subway line in London. it's on a tik tok video i've seen. and we are like: SURE!! Plus we have to research things like: most instagramable spots at each city. That didn't used to be part of our trip planning. But as we've talked to them about it I've asked, is there any of this that you are really not excited about and they say no. Everything sounds exciting. So that helps. They love the cities. They love the food. They love the languages. The culture. The history. All the new experiences.

Thanks for reading all this. Keep the advice coming. I'll take all I can get! It just helps me get more and more excited. (even the stuff about the pickpockets). We will at least be as prepared as we can be.

janisj Feb 21st, 2022 12:37 PM

"We arrive at 8am and plan to keep moving so we get on local time quicker. Any advice on how to handle the time change upon arrival?"

With an 8AM arrival plan on arriving at your airbnb around noon -- a little earlier if you are lucky. LHR has become as bad or worse than CDG for massive immigration queues and loooooong waits for luggage especially at T-5 (not enough ground staff). Do you know what time you can get into your accommodations -- some are pretty strict about providing entry 3PM+ while others are looser. If there is a renter the night before its almost certain you won't get in til later. What works to ease jet lag for your family . . . everyone is different and different members of your family may react differently. Some people swear by taking a nap and cleaning up, whilst others get moving and stay out doors in parks etc for the fresh air. What no one recommends is any heavy duty sightseeing or anything indoors (like museums or galleries or) because they can be hot/stuffy and the worst thing for jet lag. Best to delay any indoors stuff til at least next day. Only you will know how you are affected . . . til you are.

"Our Airbnb is right next to The Oval."

Not a terribly convenient location south of the river - will add significantly to a lot of your transit times.

"it looks like we should be able to get all the big attractions in"

Not a chance in hell heck. You will be able to a few of the major sites but nowhere near 'all'.

"
Any chance we get, we plan to pay for the skip the line at attractions. We will buy tickets in advance for popular attractions so that we hopefully don't get stuck somewhere for hours in a line"

Not sure where you expect huge queues. There will be long lines at the Tower of London but there are ways to avoid them (like arriving just before opening time). There can be queues at Westminster Abbey and St Paul's but not long ones. Most museums and galleries are free and the only queues are for a security scan and there is no way to avoid those. It isn't the queues that will eat up time -- its the getting from place to place. Many sites even though they are free require pre-booked timed tickets because of covid requirements. But those may be eliminated now that rules are changing in England.

"
Website says 90 minutes"

. . . 90 minutes


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