Neerav

Hi all,

First timer here...have been go-ogling last couple of weeks for planning my first trip to Europe

Every search throws up some Fodor forum link...and have been very impressed by the people who are willing to help here! you guys are great!

I have developed the below itinerary for myself, wifey and our 2 yr old son to travel in September 2013 for 22 days. I currently stay in Singapore and will start my journey from here.

So here it goes.

I really want to visit Swiss - Paris - London. I know including Italy is squeezing a bit in 22 days but looking at photos ..am absolutely in love with Italy. And I want to take full advantage of the fast trains in Europe to reduce travel time between places.
To me this covers all the important places I want to visit in my first trip...ive tried to keep relax days in between...please give your opinions...really appreciate it

Saturday 14-Sep-13 Arrive in Rome - Free&Easy Flight 17 hrs
Sunday 15-Sep-13 Rome - local sightseeing Sightseeing
Monday 16-Sep-13 Vatican Sightseeing
Tuesday 17-Sep-13 Rome - local sightseeing, trip to Pisa Train Sightseeing
Wednesday 18-Sep-13 Proceed to Florence by Train - Trenitalia / Free&Easy 2 hrs
Thursday 19-Sep-13 Florence - sightseeing Train Sightseeing
Friday 20-Sep-13 Proceed to Venice by Train - Trenitalia / Free&Easy 2 hrs
Saturday 21-Sep-13 Venice Sightseeing
Sunday 22-Sep-13 Proceed to Lucerne,Switzerland - Trenitalia / Eurocity / Swiss Rail Train 6 hrs via Milan /Zurich
Monday 23-Sep-13 Lucerne Mt Titlis or other Relax
Tuesday 24-Sep-13 Lucerne Mt Titlis or other Sightseeing
Wednesday 25-Sep-13 Proceed to Interlaken or Murren / Wengen - Swiss Rail Train 2 hrs
Thursday 26-Sep-13 Interlaken or Murren / Wengen - Jungfraujoch / Other Sightseeing
Friday 27-Sep-13 Murren / Wengen - Jungfraujoch / Other Sightseeing
Saturday 28-Sep-13 Proceed to Paris via Geneva - TGV Train 3-6 hrs
Sunday 29-Sep-13 Paris - Local Sightseeing Sightseeing
Monday 30-Sep-13 Paris - Versailles Sightseeing
Tuesday 1-Oct-13 Paris - Local Sightseeing / Shopping Relax
Wednesday 2-Oct-13 Proceed to London - Eurostar Train 2.5 hr
Thursday 3-Oct-13 London - Local Sightseeing Sightseeing
Friday 4-Oct-13 London - Local Sightseeing Sightseeing
Saturday 5-Oct-13 London Relax&Shop
Sunday 6-Oct-13 Fly back home Flight 12 hour

Neerav

Just realized trip to Pisa should not be done by Rome but from Florence. Maybe will just skip it

bilboburgler

Neerav, for your own use it is probably worth listing out the night time plan to make sure family is happy with trip.

Pisa is dead easy from Florence, just the local commute train.

For me a little too rushed but maybe ok for you. If I had to cull anything I'd cull from Switzerland and add to Florence or Venice.

BigRuss

This is an unholy mess. You need to pare down the destinations and realize that with a toddler in tow, you cannot see as much or go to as many places as you could hit if the trip consisted of just you and your wife. With a small child, you need 5 days to see 3 days worth of sights. Rethink this.

PalenQ

For info on trains in those countries check out these IMO fantastic web site - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com. In Switzerland you travels warrant a Swiss Pass - either a 3 day Swiss Saver Flexipass or an 8-consecutive-day pass (even though you'll only be there 7 days - you are traveling nearly every day and consecutive-day passes are cheaper per unlimited travel day than flexipasses) - for lots on Swiss trains check out www.swisstravelsystem.com.

early bird gets the worm on Chunnel Trains to London - www.eurostar.com - cheaper tickets can go fast.

annhig

This is an unholy mess. You need to pare down the destinations and realize that with a toddler in tow, you cannot see as much or go to as many places as you could hit if the trip consisted of just you and your wife. With a small child, you need 5 days to see 3 days worth of sights. Rethink this.>>

please, BigRuss, don't hold back - tell the OP what you really think!

honestly, Neerav, i think that you have perhaps been a little over-ambitious, but I understand the desire to cram everything in - I'm planning a trip that includes Singapore and I'm sure you would laugh at what I'm doing!

breaking it down into nights, you have this:

4 nights Rome,
2 nights Florence
2 nights Venice
3 nights Lucerne
3 nights Interlaken or Wengen/Muerren
4 nights Paris
4 nights London.

is that right? remember that 2 nights in a place leaves you really with only one full day and that you lose at least half a day every time you move. Have you done a trip like this with your 2 year old before? does he/she like moving around that much? IMO to try to see Rome. Florence and Venice is a bit much - i think i would lose one of them, and Venice being pretty difficult to negotiate with a buggy, I'd lose Venice. Add a night to Florence and a night to Lucerne.

have a great trip!

Neerav

thanks a lot guys for the replies!

really helps to get some perspective...

and annhig / bilbo thats how my nights are broken down into...


BigRuss I understand where you are coming from and I know lot of experienced travellers on this and other forums say the same thing...dont try to move around...

so here was my thinking in what and why i made the above itinerary..

1) London , Paris is a must do for both my wife and I
2) Switzerland - just looks too good to miss

Now I looked at the map and looked at the number of days we could take leave from our jobs, we thought lets look at Italy too.

So when I start reading up about it...got more and more pulled into it and thats when it became a must see for me..

When I look at Italy...you go from Rome to Florence to Venice. Thats how they are on the map. 2 Hrs Train journey each.

Ok enough explanation..so lets look at what alternatives I have

1) Take out Italy totally. Add a day more to swiss/paris/london. That still leaves me with 5 days. What are my options...Vienna-Munich / Prague-Munich / Barcelona-Madrid / Amsterdam-Bruges..or any other option? need it to be easily doable by some train.

2) Annhig, I think you are right I need to take out one of Florence or Venice. But I rather want to experience the uniqueness of Venice over Florence. So if I take this, then take out Florence, add 1 to Venice and 1 to Swiss.

3) Leave the kid back with Grandparents...yep I am crazy..have thought over it...my reasoning is this...I got married in India when I was 25 in 2007, came to Singapore for work reasons when I was 27..have been here since...have travelled to places like Jakarta , Taipei for work...and the only trip (other than going back yearly for 2 weeks to india) more than 10 days is during my honeymoon...

Due to work commitments, family I haven't really gone out with my wife for anything substantial...due to kid was thinking of doing a trip in North India this time...but thought this is the best time for us to go to Europe...

Leaving the kid behind...am sort of convinced...but wifey is not... so still 50-50.

4) th alternative...not sure..

keep the advice coming..thanks a ton!

Neerav

Also when I am in Switzerland, I can keep Lucerne as my base and not go to Interlaken region...and do Mt Titlis,Jugfrau and others from Lucerne.

Gretchen

I would pare down Switzerland.
I would omit Versailles unless after a couple of days in Paris you have "done" everything.
I have heard from other India travelers how much they want to be in Switzerland, but really think about adding a couple of days to Paris.
I think it is a lot of travel with a toddler in tow,but I don't think it is as awful as some say. I would do it differently, but it really isn't as "out there" as some have been.

nytraveler

It would be very rushed but manageable with adults. Not sure about with a toddler.

You need to understand that even if the train ride is 2 hour moving from one place to another will take you 4 or 5 hours (pack, check out, get to train station, get snacks, wait for train, board, get to arrival city and do the same in reverse.

Also - two adults can travle with liited luggage. With a toddler you need all the clothes, toys, diapers/diaper bag, stroller, etc - so you are taking probably more for the kid than for the two of you combined. This will slow down any transit process.

annhig

ok, neerav, i understand about Venice, but you could save the rest of Italy for another trip, when the baby is ready to be wowed by the colosseum.

so how about this?

4 nights Venice
6 nights Lucerne
6 nights Paris
6 nights London.

you still get a taste of Italy, but you have longer in each place to explore and relax.

you are highly unlikely to run out of things to do in any of them.

you can rent apartments which will make life easier with the baby.

Jean

I think you're looking at this trip more from the perspective of an adult, but not necessarily as a parent of a 2-year-old.

Doesn't your child take a nap in the middle of the day? Have you accounted for those hours in your daily sightseeing plans? Is your child going to sleep on that 17-hour flight and in a series of new beds?

Many parents won't take young children to high altitudes (Jungfrau, Mt. Titlis, Wengen). You should discuss this idea with your child's physician. If you decide to go anyway, make sure you know the signs of altitude sickness and how to treat this in both a small child and adults.

amy_torres_sd

For what it's worth, my hubby and I left our two kids (ages 3 and 6) at home with their grandparents for our 10th anniversary trip... saw Paris and Italy while we were gone about the same amount of time as you are planning to go. The kids would not have appreciated the trip, and WE connected in a way we hadn't in a while. We missed them terribly, and they missed us too, but when we would call home they would be too busy playing to come to the phone. They're now teenagers and we're all about to embark on their first trip to Europe.

Good luck, whatever you decide. And remember, you'll go back!! Don't cram too much in, with or without your toddler!

rajshiv

Hi Neerav I am going to be honest and say that you have a fairly good itinerary...the only thing that may make my point of view completely redundant is the fact that I don't have a two year old.

I honestly think leaving the baby with the grand parents is a great idea. If your baby has been around his / her grandparents then she would be absolutely fine. My sister left her two year old...and my parents loved it and so did her son.

Personally I feel I had to choose one region to stay in Switzerland...it should be Wengen/ Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen and not Lucerne. We went for a ten day holiday to Switzerland...and absolutely loved it...I also think that going to switzerland bang in the middle of your trip is a great idea.Being in the mountains for six days would help you unwind and relax. Also please see if you really want to visit all the peaks...we did that too...however realised that after the charm of seeing snow fades off...it is the hikes that we enjoyed more.

We live in London and really like it...and Paris is one of my favourite places in the world...I am sure you will enjoy being in both these cities.

Please do look at apartments...it will make your life a lot easier...

After the long flight you would be jet lagged so keep that in mind. We went to Rome for 4 days...and they we're really full and long days...but we were able to see quite a lot. The same is true for Paris...the absolute minimum that you would need is four days. I would say if you are a history buff then you must o to the palace of Versailles.

Venice though unique is one of the places that didn't quite capture my heart the way Florence did. If you read up a bit about Michelangelo, renaissance and the medici family...you will find Florence absolutely captivating. I understand that when you come such a long way the temptation is to see as much as you can...and if it just the two of you then this is a feasible itinerary. I have never been on the go for 22 days at a stretch...so when I say feasible...I mean from the point of view of being able to visit some of the main places that most people want to visit.

Lexma90

On leaving your child with the grandparents. We did that for a number of European trips that DH and I made while our kids were young. For the ages under about 6, they'll know at the time of course that you're gone, but won't have any long-term memories.

The time that your parents will have with their grandchild is priceless and special. Both my parents and my husband's really have treasured their time with the grandchildren, without us being around.

Gretchen

If it is up for discussion to have the grandparents babysit--go all in!! But I will say that that is a pretty long period of time to do it--for both parents and grands. Your child is not going to remember any of this trip at all--except being dragged around in strange places. Be sure to have some ability to make phone calls.
But grands DO love the time. And grandchildren benefit as much also.

Neerav

thanks again guys...for all the replies....

am going to leave the decision to leave the kid or not with my wife...my parents are right now here in Singapore with us and they are absolutely okay with the idea...even my wifey's parents stay near Mumbai where my parents are and my son can go to them too for some time while we are away...

Jean, yes frankly I did not think it would be problematic for my kid in Switzerland...but yes will take advice from his doc...

Gretchen, we Indians do have a dreamy relationship with Switzerland...a lot of Indian romantic movies are shot there...so believe me we dream about going there since since childhood...

If we go without Kid...I am more inclined to do the above..even if rushed..for reasons I already mentioned..

So thing is...if I do with my son, then I will rethink my itinerary a lot..
as annhig said...drop 2 destinations in Italy...and spread it out between the remaining places listed above...

will think and revise! thanks a ton guys..keep the advice flowing!

PalenQ

ttt

PalenQ

more and more trains have family seats - a small compartment or blocked off area with kids games, etc.

sfmaster

I have a few thoughts. Folks always use the rationale that "the kids won't remember anything" to suggest it isn't worth taking them to memorable places. But the force of travel isn't what the kid remembers but how you are with your kid while traveling, and the way it creates a family culture of adventure and travel. My kids talk about trips they took, but don't remember really, except through photos. But it's part of their identity...

I am also so happy when traveling. So having my kids be with me means they get to experience that part of me.... and I get to enjoy them in a way that I can't at home with all the hub ub of daily life. I also love the way the world interacts with me when I have my kids there.... We slow down, people smile and talk to us, we take more time to sit in the piazza and eat gelato...

I also like how taking my kids along forces me to understand how to build in flexible thinking into my life and my kid's life.

That said, trips without kids are fabulous and an absolute necessity as well. Just very different objectives.

I myself would not leave my kids for 3 weeks. It would be too long for me. It would be too big of a chunk of my vacation time.... and I'd want some of that vacation time to be with my kids. It would be too long for my parents. I understand this would be different in cultures/families where there might be more household help for the drudgery parts. But I have left them for a week regularly, even if they protest it.

One more thought is that I wish I had done a few more trips with just husband when my kids were little (now they are 6,9,12). Now they want to go so much that it is harder to tell them that only mom and dad are heading to Barcelona.

So lots to balance..... just wanted to get those thoughts in there