TDS,
As if you did not have enough opinions yet, here is mine:
go to the places you wanted to visit the most. We never know what curve life will throw at us. As someone who had to wait about 15 years to go one specific place, I will advise to go to Rome and Madrid. Both places are incredible and you've chosen the best time of year. Warm, but not super hot, before vacation season and "sharing" pictures with strangers....I would spend a week in each place. You can take great day trips from either place (train or bus) and see a bit of a coutry side.
If not Italy and Spain, I would choose Paris and Barcelona.
Politicaly Barcelona is in Spain, however, Catalunians do not consider themself spanish and have totally different culture from the rest of Spain.

A few more points: I would NOT rent an appartment (you do not want to spend time cooking american dishes)- you can find reasonable boutique type hotel in any European city. Do not try to include breakfast. To get a local feel, ask hotel for recomendation of a little cafe within a few blocks that is not geared towards tourists, another words ask them for place they will go to. Same goes for dinner, etc. You'll get some local flavor this way even if you do get sardines for breakfast in Barcelona by mistake.... Do stop at the supermarket, but not necessary for food shopping. It's an experience and you can save on souveniers for friends, co-workers by bringing a box of local specialty(cookies, candy) for the office to share.

Do not try to schedule everything ahead of time. Saving a dollar 5 months ahead might not make sence later.

I would decide on the country/city first, book the flights, then start looking into hotels. Hotels.com have a very good return policy. You can make reservation for the place you like, if something better comes up, they'll issue refund with no questions. Just make sure it's within the time frame specified at booking.

I also concur with another post- London is the least exotic.

Paris to Barcelona train takes 12 hours and you can travel overnight.Check RailEurope.com/ParistoBarcelona
Gran class cabin for two includes shower and dinner/breakfast.

Whatever you decide, good luck, have a lot fun planning and they enjoy!

"Whatever you decide, good luck, have a lot fun planning and they enjoy!"

oops, meant to say -Whatever you decide, good luck, have a lot of fun planning and then enjoy!

Thanks everyone!! I love reading all of your posts each day!! Such good info and will be VERY useful in my trip planning!!!!
MMPGTRAVEL-- i am going to have a hard time not booking everything ahead of time....im a SERIOUS planner, you know the kind ;) Organize organize organize....should have been my middle name.
PeaceOut--Thanks for the input on Amsterdam, We really want to see what it's all about, and I was beginning to worry w some of the other posts about ppl not liking it. I realize everyone has there own "cup of tea" but advice on what others think is always helpful.
As soon as I get the exact plan down I cant wait to figure out an itinerary and share w everyone so I can get your feedback....also i think it will be fun to share my experience when I get back!! Maybe I will be able to offer advice to someone by then! Right now, not so much. hehe.
I also like all the advice about the trains....think we will prob try that rather than fly. I'll keep everyone posted!

One question left for now....Do most ppl agree that we should Fly into Amsterdam, then train to Paris, then Eurostar to London??? I will be flying out of ATL, and I'm wondering what plane tix I should be watching. I want to obviously do the easiest route, easiest starting point. THanks guys!

Well, we'll probably NEVER agree on the optimal itinerary for you - ha! I think you would do fine going either way (London - Paris - Amsterdam) or the other way. As I said above, you might find it only slightly more challenging departing out of London than arriving there. I haven't checked recently, but I think London airports have had very strict limits on carry-ons (I've lately been trying to do ONLY carry-ons even to Europe). May not be an issue for you.

I guess I'd compare the flight times (and prices) for ATL-LON/AMS-ATL to ATL-AMS/LON-ATL . And London has several airports to boot. Delta might actually fly to both Heathrow (LHR) and Gatwick (LGW) from Atlanta, not sure anymore. I've flown into/out of both. Gatwick is further from central London than Heathrow, but as I recall - this was ten years ago - Heathrow was a huge maze that I wanted to avoid in the future. I seem to remember walking FOR-EV-ER from baggage claim at Heathrow to the tube station! But things may have greatly changed in ten years, who knows? People surely have opinions on Heathrow vs. Gatwick, too...

I hate early morning flights. If your flight from London to Atlanta would be at 8:00 that means getting up REALLY early to get out to the airport. Amsterdam's Schiphol is easier for sure. Not everyone would base their itinerary direction based on flight arrival/departure times, but I think it has to be at least some part of your decision.

Thanks Andrew! I am not a morning person, so i agree...early flights stink!! I will check into times and prices. Def will make a diff if one is much cheaper than the other.

When in May are you planning to travel? If it's early in the month, and you go to Amsterdam first, the Keukenhof might still be open. You really should try to see the tulips in bloom.

Otherwise, I would do London-Paris-Amsterdam.

Robyn :)>-

tds,
Sounds like you are learning to use this board very quickly--take advice, but make your own decisions as to what are your priorities and travel style.
I do remember how excited I was anticipating my first trip to Europe, the uncertainties, and the difficult choices. I too am a planner.

Definitely go to the one place you have to see and your husband has to see or else you will wonder if you made the right choice. I'm an outdoors person, so that one place for me was Switzerland, but I also wanted to see southern Germany and the castles. I would have enjoyed everywhere else, but would have wondered what I missed if I had not made it to Switzerland. Of course, I found out that southern Germany and Austria could give me a similar mountain village experience, but I had to find that out for myself. I have also missed some places others would consider "must sees" because they just don't interest me. I also go to museums just to see the exhibits that interest me and may not go through the entire building, especially on a first visit.

If London, Amsterdam, and Paris are the absolute top priorities for your two, then go there, but don't choose them because they are the best known or other people tell you to. Assuming you do not chuck these and switch to Rome or Spain because that is really what you want to do...

For a first trip, I would agree with the ATL-LON flight to start for shortest flight, language, cheaper arrival taxes, etc. I would suggest a small hotel, not an apartment, so you will have the hotel staff to ask questions of and may meet other guests.

I would make a list of my top sights to see and experiences and estimate the number of days for myself. I tend to stay shorter periods of time in each city than most folks on this board just because I like to spend my vacation out and about from early morning to late in the evening with picnics and meals on trains rather than sleeping in and leisurely meals in a restaurant or apartment (but that is just my style, maybe not yours). I love architecture, history, local cultures, and nature. So in every destination I choose the neighborhoods I want to walk, any historical sites or tours I want to see, any theater or market I want to experience, and any park or natural spot I want to experience. In most cities I choose one museum (Paris more), one church, etc. so I don't do too many strictly tourist sites. I also often prebook one short tour of some type (Ceremony of the Keys in London, for example). When close to departure I look for a local calendar of events and try to find a local fair, festival, market or similar to mix with the locals.

So, for example, on my first visit to London I would choose Tower of London + Ceremony of the Keys, Westminster Cathedral, a couple of historical neighborhoods, the British museum, a play, a pub, and some open time for whatever. Then a day trip to a castle perhaps and one to the Cotswolds. After that I'd be ready to leave London adjusted to the time, knowing where the train station is and how to use my ticket, etc., just feeling more confident. Your list might be very different and therefore require more/fewer days in London than I would stay.

Train to Paris, watching the countryside zoom by, eating a picnic, and reading my guidebook, then I'd be off again to Eiffel Tower (do the lights still flash on schedule at night?), Louvre, Notre Dame, a cafe, day trip to a chateau, etc. (I'm one of the people who likes Paris OK like other cities, but I don't love it and wished I hadn't booked 6 nights there once I arrived.) Then on to Amsterdam and the canals, van Gogh, day trip to Delft, and easy train to airport for departure flight. I think Amsterdam is smaller and deserves fewer days.

You appear to be more of a city person than I, so you might want to skip the day trips out of town and just experience more urban ambiance.

Looked on Kayak.com and open jaw is cheaper landing in London and leaving from Amsterdam. Not much difference, but when buying two tix will save around 130-140 bucks.

(in US dollars)
1087.00 for Atl-London(LHR) Amsterdam-Atl
1156.00 for Atl-Amsterdam LGW-Atl

Same for priceline....only a dollar cheaper 1086 and 1155

When in May are you planning to travel? If it's early in the month, and you go to Amsterdam first, the Keukenhof might still be open. You really should try to see the tulips in bloom. >

indeedy one of the highlights of my decades of European travel is the Dutch Horticultural Industry's kaleidoscopic flower show at the Keukenhof - avoid weekends IME as the entry to the hothouses - to me it seemed the highlight of the show - were too crowded for me one Sunday when every Dutch family and their grannies seemed to be there.

On my first trip to Europe I slept on the train at night to save time and money. That was a long time ago. Haven't read all the replies so I'm not sure if anyone recommended Ryanair--cheap way to travel from city to city. Beware of luggage charges!

One more idea--I live in Germany (DOD civilian) so I get to travel a lot. But everytime I go to a new city, I make sure to take a guided tour early in my stay. That way I get to see the layout somewhat, and I can see what things I'd like to go back to visit in depth.

I think your trip sounds wonderful. I have not been to Amsterdam yet, but have visited London and Paris. Hopefully you will love both. London is fun and the people are lovely and I agree it might be a good place to start your trip. If you take the Chunnel, face forward as some people (like me) experience vertigo after riding backwards. If you end up traveling else where by train, embrace the experience (its really easy!) and ask questions if you get turned around. Paris will wow you. It is my favorite city in the world! A couple of suggestions: unless you absolutely love museums and can't get enough, plan on museum tours in the morning and outside activities in the afternoon, figure out the metro quick and plan on using it daily (it is so easy!), if you miss a stop and have to exit and turn around, enjoy the detour, only use a taxi if you are going more than a few miles or expect the driver to get cranky. Take side streets and experience the neighborhoods. Pack travel tissue in your purse. Take something from your home town to share with the friends you will make. Peach Buds candy from Georgia. In my opinion the must see's are the Sacre-Coeur at sunset, the Eiffel and Sainte-Chapelle on a sunny day, and just about anywhere in St-Germain-des-Pres. At least once a day, stop, breath, look/kiss/embrace your husband and acknowledge that you are experiencing a moment you will never forget.

hey I liked Amsterdam! It's an interesting place. Maybe not the "wowie" factor of Paris or Venice. But definitely worth a few days (I was there for 5 day solo combined w/ a trip to Switzerland) and enjoyed the time.

I think you should drop either rome or madrid and then you'll have an OK agenda for 2 weeks.

PalenQ--We are planning to go in the beginning of May, possibly within the first two weeks.
nini123-- i loved your post!! We are soooo excited! I will put the must see's from your post on our list. and about the Peach Buds candy?? I haven't heard of it, but will definitley look it up so we can bring some and share!

I think May to be one of the best months to go to Europe - especially big tourist draws as this is still, relatively low season with not only airfares perhaps cheaper (the earlier in the month the better for that) but affordable hotels are more available and also perhaps cheaper for the same room as in high season - if you can even get it then.

In Italy the difference between May and say mid-June thru mid-Sep can be huge in terms of crowds and in mid summer it can just be too darn hot there as well - average hi in Florence in mid-summer being in the humid 90s!

So May is great - trees budding out - flowers flowering out and tourist hoards not quite there yet.

I would try to start out in southern Europe and move north as hopefully the warmer weather does - that said above the Alps and Paris area even much later in spring it can be cool (not cold) and damp with highs in 40s and 50s and at times too much rain. But the weather is really variable in this sea-affected climate so it could be brilliant as well. But by starting in the south the weather should improve, statistically, as you move north.

When is a good time to book an airline ticket?? Should I go ahead and do that pretty soon or wait until it's closer to time??

That's an interesting and oft-debated question, tds0212. It's worth monitoring over several months to get a feel for whether your specific fares are going up or down. (I know there are websites that supposedly do this, but they never seem to "watch" as far in advance as I would like them to.)

I myself am doing this right now relative to open jaw fares to/from France next June. I've been watching since last February or so. Currently, my SWAG is that it may be best to pounce in September - about 9 mos in advance. I'm sure, however, that everyone has their opinions and experience regarding this particular crap shoot game.

Right, everyone has opinions. Some people like to lock in their flights as early as possible. Me - I wouldn't dare book something so soon for a trip next May. I'm thinking about going to Eastern Europe in September of THIS year and I haven't booked anything yet. (And Delta's prices for my potential flights are today cheaper than they were a few months ago.)

It's extremely unlikely tickets for your flights will sell out between now and next winter before you book them. So by buying tickets soon, you are simply wagering that tickets will be cheaper now than if you wait. On the downside, you are locking yourself in. What if something comes up that requires you to change your plans? What if you change you mind about your itinerary between now and then? What if the airline changes the flights and suddenly your easy connection from Atlanta to London now becomes a messy connecting flight?

The only upside of buying tickets early is to get that part of buying them out of the way so you can check off that box. At worst, prices may rise a little if you wait. But it's not like prices will DOUBLE in the next few months on tickets to Europe. At worst you pay a little more by waiting - but you may also pay less by waiting, and if plans change you'd save a lot in change fees by not having been locked in.

I pretty much agree with everything Andrew said even though I'd be getting a little itchy at the point he's at now. Travel expense mysteries are one of the biggest reasons to buy trip insurance once you've made the jump. This decision is usually the one I waffle back & forth on the most until I lock myself in with no turning back.

Basically, you're gambling on it going down and once you've made the decision, you're "all in." That being said, I have never regretted buying my tickets at least four months early. My own experience has always been that they go up and I'm I've invariably been happy to have made the plunge when I did. It obviously depends on your locations & dates to a large extent. Now there's a volcano in the mix. What fun!

Sap, I generally don't recommend people wait as long as I do to book their airline tickets! But I've booked my tickets to Europe less than six weeks out numerous times now - and in many cases I was able to take advantage of fantastic fare sales. The reason I wait so long isn't because I'm banking on a better deal, it's because I'm a bit indecisive. :-) In one case, I start looking in May for September and considered planning my whole trip around direct, convenient Lufthansa flights that were later canceled, before I booked. By waiting I was able to re-plan around more convenient flights.

haha!! Thanks guys! Everyone is so full of knowledge!! I suppose I will wait until closer to time...checking the prices over the next several months. All of your points are very valid. I get a little impulsive at times, thanks for being the voice of reason ;) We are planning May 5th-18th...i don't want to think about any volcanos sap! haha! I am going to stay in my little bubble and get my tickets a few months ahead of time unless they plummet one month, then maybe i will snag them up!

My experience is like Andrew's - always book just before flying a month or so - usually because i don't make up my mind as to exactly when i'll leave until shortly before the trip - but i also go in off-season and then cheap fares are often available until the day of the plane practically and yes if seats remain unsold good sales can crop up.

But summer travel is more expensive than ever it seems as airlines have cut back capacity a lot. Early May and late May return may save lots of money over say leaving a month later - or it may not - it's all a matter of supply and demand.

Just chiming in with a vote to keep Amsterdam on your itinerary. I was not 'wowed' by it or fall in love, but it is a very interesting city to see. I would go there first and use it to get over your jet lag. A couple days there. I did love Paris, and have not been to London (other than thru the airport many times) but think these 3 cities on an 11 day trip is a fine plan. For me, if I was cutting time, I'd take it from London (even though I know there's a lifetime of things to see and do there it personally doesn't interest me like Paris does, for whatever reason. Your milage may vary on this!)

I know this post is so old....but before I start a new one just wanted to ask a few more random questions.

I have been reading and trying to find the way to get from place to place. So far I have this in mind...

Flying into LGW stay 4 nights, Eurostar to Paris stay 4 nights, then Thalys to Amsterdam stay 3 nights.

It wouldnt let me price for May 2011 so I just did September 2010 since they are both in "shoulder season"
Eurostar 260 USD
Thalys 208 USD
This is economy/standard/2nd class/CHEAPEST! haha
Then of course open-jaw air fare into LGW out of Amsterdam

I know once I get into the city I will have to take other trains/tubes to get to where i'm going. will figure that out soon. Just wanted to be on the right track to get to where I need to be.

If there seems to be a better way let me know. This is the price for BOTH my husband and I...not per person.

Where did you get your Thalys price? The www.voyages-sncf.com is showing 35EU/person Paris-Amsterdam for 9/9/2010 for early morning departures and 45EU/person for late morning departures. These are "SMOOVE" fares.

You're checking for a busy time not far in advance, so September prices are no doubt going to seem high. Don't wait til April to book for May - book as soon as Eurostar bookings open up for May to get cheaper fares. Just keep checking I guess.

greg...i got my prices off of raileurope.com. Maybe I should check your site above!

Andrew- I will keep checking, thanks! It said on the web that they usually wont let you book more than 60 days in advance. I will keep up to date on it though and get them as soon as i can!

Just wanted to make sure that ppl thought this route was the best option and not flying from paris to amsterdam?? Thought the train might be easier than going through the whole airport ordeal, but I could be wrong.

Ì would've stayed with your husband and some days in Madrid, living the life of this fabulous city that hardly goes to sleep. Plaza Santa Ana would be the perfect location, whether you want to stay in luxurios Reina Victoria or in more basic Hostal Persal just off the square.
http://www.gomadrid.com/sights/plaza-santa-ana.html

The great jazz venue Café Central would either way be on your doorstep, and two of Madrid's best flamenco "tablaos", Cardamomo and Casa Patas, are both three mins away. As is one of Madrid's best tapas districts in and around Calle Cava Baja. And perhaps check out the terrace in 6th floor Casa Granada close by for lunch or some tapas: http://www.tripfilms.com/Travel_Vide...ada-Video.html

I think you shouldn't miss out on the sunset views from El Ventorillo in Las Vistillas park (10-15 mins walk from Plaza Santa Ana): http://11870.com/pro/restaurante-ven...ideos/d9dafee0

Go to the second floor of the Reina Sofia museum if you want to blow your minds off with Dalí, Picasso etc. plus films, posters and photos from two of the mayor civilizational breakdowns of the 20th Century, The Spaniah Civil War and WWII.

I have both flown between Paris and Amsterdam and trained between them. Honestly, flying wasn't so bad - but there were no weather delays and everything was on time. I admit that I love train travel and in Europe especially, train travel is a lot of fun - a huge step up from Amtrak in the US. And the Thalys trains as I recall (this was a few years ago now) are really nice.

I don't think flying is going to save you tons of time if any, since you have to get from city center to/from the airport plus allow extra time for security (longer than for a train, especially in Paris). And I happen to think taking the trains is a big part of the "European" experience.

Did you look at the Thalys website at www.thalys.com ? Apparently fares are 35 Euro per person "Comfort 2" for 30-day advanced booking. I wouldn't even consider flying if I could take the train for that price.

"I have both flown between Paris and Amsterdam and trained between them."

Well since the launch of the new high-speed line between Brussels and Amsterdam - few folks will by flying this route as trains now do it in not much more than 3 hours - quicker than a plane figuring trains take you from city center to city center and schlepping out to the airport - going thru security - boarding - waiting for bags - taking a cab or bus or train then into the city center - and if the flight is late - if some volcano blows its top, etc.

The train on this route makes infinitely more sense to me.

thanks!

Ok. So the train it is. Now...my next thing is I have been watching open jaw tickets into LGW out of Amsterdam. I have checked 3 or 4 separate times...Non-stop flight, good times for departure and arrival but everytime I look the price has gone up a little. Not much, not like hundreds or anything. I was going to wait until Oct or Nov to purchase tix...just from what ppl say, what ive read in travel books...BUT will the price keep climbing or is there a chance it may go back down?? I can purchase them now, just thought I was supposed to wait?????

Does it have to be in LGW, out AMS? Can it be in AMS, out LGW? How about in LHR, out AMS or even BRU?

I include all key costs into the itinerary planning: air, ground, and lodging to come up with options. Some added airfare can be easily compensated by larger discounts in other areas such as staying in expensive cities on weekends instead of on business days.

This is for next May? I think you are way too early. I would be seriously shopping about 3-4 months before.

greg...it can be anyway BUT it was cheaper to fly into LGW and out of AMS...that's y I chose that route. For some reason London is cheaper. Plus i will be arriving at 7am in LGW and leaving AMS around 1 or 2 pm, if i remember correctly. I'd have to double check.

rs899...yes it is for May 2011. This coming May. I know it is early, but another poster said she bought her tix like 10 months in advance. Others said to wait as you did. Just wondering if the price would cont to climb or possible drop. Not really in a tizz about it just yet. Just dont want to miss out on a cheaper flight now and have to pay a lot more closer to time. ? Live and learn I guess. :)

Yes, of course the price could continue to climb, or it could fall below what it's been the last few months. No one here can predict that. The real payoff of waiting is flexibility. You may between now and the end of the year, say, find out something that causes you to alter your itinerary: add a city, change the week, you travel, etc. What if there's some family or work issue between now and, say, January that comes up? Why lock yourself in now just out of fear that the fare might go up?

I'd assume you WILL pay more if you book, say, early next year, in exchange for not locking yourself in too early. And if by chance there's a big fare sale later instead that saves you money, consider it a bonus.

About the Thalys train - heed warnings above to buy your ticket as early as possible as if you just show up you could literally pay $100 or more more than like the Smoove (sp?) early bird booking fare - there are several fare levels with a certain number of tickets sold at each level so booking early is the key - but those tickets are not refundable nor changeable so be sure of your times.

Check www.thalys.com and www.voyages-sncf.com.

Don't assume this will be your ONE AND ONLY trip .... if you think that way .. you'll make yourself crazy :)

And don't discount the idea of travelling with small children later on. Kids fly (or at least they did in 2004) for free, on your lap, you only have to pay the taxes. so our daughter flew to Spain for $100 and since she was wlking, we spent very little time in our seats anyway.

We also, did a BabyMoon (before they were popular) to Paris. 6months pregnant and walking the Champes Elysee was great .. just would have liked to enjoy the wine :)


Where ever you go .... enjoy!