First Time Trip to Europe
Oct 26th, 2005, 01:44 PM
#21
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>>We did London, Paris, Alps, Innsbruck, Florence, and Rome in that 2 week time.<<
Wekiva - I think you might be the rare 5% that would embark on a trip like this - and then plan another just like it.
I did a trip like that with my wife, mom, & sister in '75. Mom & sister never wanted to go on another trip with us again. My wife refused another unless I promised to slow it down a lot. On the next trip, we went back to the same places for about 50% of the itinerary, because we remembered very little about them from the first trip.
Just got back from 4 weeks in the Dordogne - we didn't go anyplace else.
Stu Dudley
Wekiva - I think you might be the rare 5% that would embark on a trip like this - and then plan another just like it.
I did a trip like that with my wife, mom, & sister in '75. Mom & sister never wanted to go on another trip with us again. My wife refused another unless I promised to slow it down a lot. On the next trip, we went back to the same places for about 50% of the itinerary, because we remembered very little about them from the first trip.
Just got back from 4 weeks in the Dordogne - we didn't go anyplace else.
Stu Dudley
Oct 26th, 2005, 02:18 PM
#22
Wekiva: Sure, some people do enjoy that sort of trip. I have taken a few whirlwind treks myself - but ONLY to places I've been before, know my way around very well, just want to see some specific places or stop for a quick look-see somewhere I missed previously, etc.
For a first timer who has a daft TA telling her - "<i>Sure, you can do 6 major cities in less than 2 weeks</i>" it could be a nightmare. They will have to navigate through many airports/train stations and find their way around in places they have never set foot.
(I suspect the TA is building in all the travel because she gets more commission for more tickets)
For a first timer who has a daft TA telling her - "<i>Sure, you can do 6 major cities in less than 2 weeks</i>" it could be a nightmare. They will have to navigate through many airports/train stations and find their way around in places they have never set foot.
(I suspect the TA is building in all the travel because she gets more commission for more tickets)
Oct 26th, 2005, 02:25 PM
#23
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Ok, thanks for all the advice on on the length of time that we are going. ( realize this trip right now is at it's planning stage, nothing is set in stone.) Getting back to the MAIN questions, can anyone suggest any affordabele hotels in ANY of these cities? Yes, we have some things that we want to see, but is there something that isn't in the books that we HAVE to see, and wouldn't otherwise know about?
Oct 26th, 2005, 02:32 PM
#24
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If you want a whirlwind trip, why don't you pick a bus tour? It will let you see (from the bus) a lot of things and you will actually visit the tourist hot spots. However, if you want independent travel, please take the board's advice and limit yourself to one country. As a rule of thumb, on any travel day (I am not talking day trips!), you will loose half a day. In addition, I find the day I arrive and the day I leave, a write off. Try to stay in one place 3-4 days. It gives you a chance to find your favorite cafe, your favorite park ect. Make your choice between "its Tuesday it must be Belgium" vs a focused trip. If it is the first consider an organized tour.
Oct 26th, 2005, 03:24 PM
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>>is there something that isn't in the books that we HAVE to see, and wouldn't otherwise know about?<<
There are thousands - perhaps tens of thousands of things IN the books that you HAVE to see. You won't have time to see a very high percent of them at all in your two weeks. Why are you even asking about things NOT in the books. I've recently seen "must see" things in Europe that I have not seen before, and I've probably been there over 2+ years total since we started traveling to Europe in '75.
Focus a little. Get more serious about an enjoyable pace and perhaps then someone can suggest some inexpensive hotels and a "must see" thing or two in the cities you have finally selected.
I've vacationed for over 50 weeks in France just since '99, and perhaps 10 weeks in Italy - plus time in Germany, England, Scotland, Wales, & Spain (just a week or so). IMHO, the best itinerary for a first timer for 2 weeks would be Rome, Tuscany, and Venice - and that's all!!!!! Scads of history and some very unique places. It's very easy to do by train. Tuscany can include stays or trips to Florence, Siena, and/or the beautiful Tuscany countryside.
Stu Dudley
There are thousands - perhaps tens of thousands of things IN the books that you HAVE to see. You won't have time to see a very high percent of them at all in your two weeks. Why are you even asking about things NOT in the books. I've recently seen "must see" things in Europe that I have not seen before, and I've probably been there over 2+ years total since we started traveling to Europe in '75.
Focus a little. Get more serious about an enjoyable pace and perhaps then someone can suggest some inexpensive hotels and a "must see" thing or two in the cities you have finally selected.
I've vacationed for over 50 weeks in France just since '99, and perhaps 10 weeks in Italy - plus time in Germany, England, Scotland, Wales, & Spain (just a week or so). IMHO, the best itinerary for a first timer for 2 weeks would be Rome, Tuscany, and Venice - and that's all!!!!! Scads of history and some very unique places. It's very easy to do by train. Tuscany can include stays or trips to Florence, Siena, and/or the beautiful Tuscany countryside.
Stu Dudley
Oct 26th, 2005, 03:52 PM
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Hi jansij, thanks for your response. Guess I was to laid back with my answer, LOL.
I worked in a travel agency for one year after I sold my business. I was shocked at the various suggestions that the other TA's made to their clients. Of course, guess what, when I started asking them where in Europe they had been to with one exception they had all taken tours through Europe. Trafalagars (sp?) Tours basically. There was one gentleman who was fantastic and he and I could hardly make eye contact sometimes when we heard the advice the others were giving their clients. But seriously I didn't think it was funny. It broke my heart to think of people putting their trust with an "expert" who had no idea what they were talking about.
I truly believe that any traveller with questions regarding travel can generally get better advice here on Fodor's then from the average TA. And before any TA jumps down my throat let me say "yes there are some wonderful and knowledable TA's". But I sure would encourage anyone that is using a TA to check into their travel experience and background. And I know any good TA would agree.
1st_timer_in_europe, if nothing else I would take Stu Dudley's advice. Best wishes to you with planning your first visit to Europe. I am sure you will have more in the future!
I worked in a travel agency for one year after I sold my business. I was shocked at the various suggestions that the other TA's made to their clients. Of course, guess what, when I started asking them where in Europe they had been to with one exception they had all taken tours through Europe. Trafalagars (sp?) Tours basically. There was one gentleman who was fantastic and he and I could hardly make eye contact sometimes when we heard the advice the others were giving their clients. But seriously I didn't think it was funny. It broke my heart to think of people putting their trust with an "expert" who had no idea what they were talking about.
I truly believe that any traveller with questions regarding travel can generally get better advice here on Fodor's then from the average TA. And before any TA jumps down my throat let me say "yes there are some wonderful and knowledable TA's". But I sure would encourage anyone that is using a TA to check into their travel experience and background. And I know any good TA would agree.
1st_timer_in_europe, if nothing else I would take Stu Dudley's advice. Best wishes to you with planning your first visit to Europe. I am sure you will have more in the future!
Oct 26th, 2005, 03:56 PM
#27
"<i>Getting back to the MAIN questions, can anyone suggest any affordabele hotels in ANY of these cities? Yes, we have some things that we want to see, but is there something that isn't in the books that we HAVE to see, and wouldn't otherwise know about?</i>
I'm sorry but I don't think you even read some of the posts above. We are trying very hard to <b>help you</b> here. If this is the itinerary you want you surely will not have enough time to get to any off the beaten track places or hidden gems. Especially w/ three of you travelling together. Your plan might (just barely) be doable for someone travelling solo - but w/ three people things will be even more complicated/time consuming.
I'm sorry but I don't think you even read some of the posts above. We are trying very hard to <b>help you</b> here. If this is the itinerary you want you surely will not have enough time to get to any off the beaten track places or hidden gems. Especially w/ three of you travelling together. Your plan might (just barely) be doable for someone travelling solo - but w/ three people things will be even more complicated/time consuming.
Oct 26th, 2005, 04:09 PM
#28
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Ok
Let me try.
"Ok, thanks for all the advice on on the length of time that we are going. ( realize this trip right now is at it's planning stage, nothing is set in stone.) Getting back to the MAIN questions, can anyone suggest any affordabele hotels in ANY of these cities? Yes, we have some things that we want to see, but is there something that isn't in the books that we HAVE to see, and wouldn't otherwise know about?"
The time you have to spend in each place is probably THE MAIN issue to resolve first. No point in anyone recommending that you seek out that little secret garden in the hidden areas of a city when you will barely have enough time to get from the train station to your hotel, throw your bags down, see a few things, sleep, perhaps see a few things the next day, and then move on to the next place.
The MAIN sights can be described in any guidebook as well as here at fodors.com if you will click on the top of this screen on Destinations.
Maybe doing that will show you all there is to see in the cities you mention, and will give you ideas on what your priorities are. With about two days in each city, you will NEED priorities, even if you travel from one place to the other at night.
Are you American? Would you consider seeing Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Miami, and Chicago all in two weeks? Would you WANT to?
Let me try.
"Ok, thanks for all the advice on on the length of time that we are going. ( realize this trip right now is at it's planning stage, nothing is set in stone.) Getting back to the MAIN questions, can anyone suggest any affordabele hotels in ANY of these cities? Yes, we have some things that we want to see, but is there something that isn't in the books that we HAVE to see, and wouldn't otherwise know about?"
The time you have to spend in each place is probably THE MAIN issue to resolve first. No point in anyone recommending that you seek out that little secret garden in the hidden areas of a city when you will barely have enough time to get from the train station to your hotel, throw your bags down, see a few things, sleep, perhaps see a few things the next day, and then move on to the next place.
The MAIN sights can be described in any guidebook as well as here at fodors.com if you will click on the top of this screen on Destinations.
Maybe doing that will show you all there is to see in the cities you mention, and will give you ideas on what your priorities are. With about two days in each city, you will NEED priorities, even if you travel from one place to the other at night.
Are you American? Would you consider seeing Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, Miami, and Chicago all in two weeks? Would you WANT to?
Oct 26th, 2005, 05:12 PM
#29
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can anyone suggest any affordabele hotels in ANY of these cities?
1st_Timer, what's affordable?
I try to budget about $100 for hotels in Europe but that is an average of cities and villages and I stay in 2 or 3* hotels. Obviously the city hotels are a little more than that and I frequently see other posters looking for much more expensive rooms.
1st_Timer, what's affordable?
I try to budget about $100 for hotels in Europe but that is an average of cities and villages and I stay in 2 or 3* hotels. Obviously the city hotels are a little more than that and I frequently see other posters looking for much more expensive rooms.
Oct 26th, 2005, 05:25 PM
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1st timer:
First, it would be helpful if you would answer some of the questions being asked by those who are trying to help you. You aren't the first, nor the last, 1st timer to come here with an overly ambitious beginning plan. In fact, I would estimate at least half of them (us) do so. Yes, I was one. And Fodorites wisely and gently coaxed me into a much more reasonable (and fun) itinerary.
Now:
--Does the two weeks include flight days? In other words, do you have 14 days on the ground in Europe? Or just 12?
--What are you interested in? Why did you pick these destinations? Museums/art? History? Night life? Cuisine? What do YOU want to see and do? Have you read any travel books (if not, the library is a great place to start).
--As for hotels: $75 to $100 each is about 190-250 euros a night at current exchange rates. That should be sufficient, maybe even a little less in some places.
--Why trains? Myair.com flies Barcelona to Venice. Of course, that leaves out Marseille---not usually a 1st timer destination.
Most people aren't going to offer specific recommendations for such a wide ranging itinerary. Do more research. Lay out your itinerary INCLUDING travel times (I use Excel). Note arrival and departure times on travel days. Then add the time for getting to/from the station or airport, checking in/out of hotels, etc. You'll begin to see just how little time you've allowed for actually <i>being</i> in these places.
Don't get discouraged. You'll be amazed at how helpful Fodorites are once you can be more specific about your trip.
First, it would be helpful if you would answer some of the questions being asked by those who are trying to help you. You aren't the first, nor the last, 1st timer to come here with an overly ambitious beginning plan. In fact, I would estimate at least half of them (us) do so. Yes, I was one. And Fodorites wisely and gently coaxed me into a much more reasonable (and fun) itinerary.
Now:
--Does the two weeks include flight days? In other words, do you have 14 days on the ground in Europe? Or just 12?
--What are you interested in? Why did you pick these destinations? Museums/art? History? Night life? Cuisine? What do YOU want to see and do? Have you read any travel books (if not, the library is a great place to start).
--As for hotels: $75 to $100 each is about 190-250 euros a night at current exchange rates. That should be sufficient, maybe even a little less in some places.
--Why trains? Myair.com flies Barcelona to Venice. Of course, that leaves out Marseille---not usually a 1st timer destination.
Most people aren't going to offer specific recommendations for such a wide ranging itinerary. Do more research. Lay out your itinerary INCLUDING travel times (I use Excel). Note arrival and departure times on travel days. Then add the time for getting to/from the station or airport, checking in/out of hotels, etc. You'll begin to see just how little time you've allowed for actually <i>being</i> in these places.
Don't get discouraged. You'll be amazed at how helpful Fodorites are once you can be more specific about your trip.
Oct 26th, 2005, 06:56 PM
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Hi JeanneB, maybe I am wrong (I use to be so good with the Italian lira).
$75.00 per person X 3 people = $225.00
I assume this is in US Dollars.
Wouldn't one than figure $225.00 US dollar X at least 1.20 (don't you figure $1.20 Euro equals $1.00US dollar?)would be $270.00 Euro at a minimum (depending on the exchange rate of course). Or am I figuring this incorrectly? Rex? Ira? Help!! I am curious since I am trying to figure out a budget for Europe next year. Thanks.
$75.00 per person X 3 people = $225.00
I assume this is in US Dollars.
Wouldn't one than figure $225.00 US dollar X at least 1.20 (don't you figure $1.20 Euro equals $1.00US dollar?)would be $270.00 Euro at a minimum (depending on the exchange rate of course). Or am I figuring this incorrectly? Rex? Ira? Help!! I am curious since I am trying to figure out a budget for Europe next year. Thanks.
Oct 26th, 2005, 07:06 PM
#34
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No, it's 1 euro = $1.20 US.
In looking at hotel rates, let's say a hotel is 130 euro per night. You simply multiply by 1.2 to calculate it in $$$.
Like I said above, I use Excel for my planning. For each night of the trip, I have a column for hotel cost in Euros, next column converted to $ (using euros * 1.2).
The total of all columns helps me keep tabs on the total for the trip.
In looking at hotel rates, let's say a hotel is 130 euro per night. You simply multiply by 1.2 to calculate it in $$$.
Like I said above, I use Excel for my planning. For each night of the trip, I have a column for hotel cost in Euros, next column converted to $ (using euros * 1.2).
The total of all columns helps me keep tabs on the total for the trip.
Oct 28th, 2005, 03:06 AM
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This is where I usually jump in to say that my first trip to Europe 30 or so years ago had a to-do list much like yours. If it's to be your first of a life of European travel, go for it and have fun taking just a taste of each place. My memories of my very young fast-paced Eurrail-pass powered trip are wonderful ones.
Even so, is there a chance you could be happy with Barcelona, Nice, Florence, Roma, and Venice? Have fun planning! J.
Even so, is there a chance you could be happy with Barcelona, Nice, Florence, Roma, and Venice? Have fun planning! J.
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:01 AM
#38
To get hotel suggestion I would make a new posting that names the 6 cities, states you need a triple room, and your price range is 186 to 248 euro per night.
The question is too hidden in this thread to likely bring you many replies.
The question is too hidden in this thread to likely bring you many replies.
Oct 29th, 2005, 09:11 AM
#39
I will bet money the travel agent friend has not taken a trip like the one you propose.
The problem is not whether it is technically do-able but how you want to spend your vacation hours.
A good experiement is to make a list including realistic time frames for: how many hours you will spend on each leg of the train rides between cities, including an allowance for packing and checking in/out of hotels, taking taxis to from train station, etc.
Why people are questioning the plan is not to be hyper-critical or jump all over you but because most have found in numerous trips to Europe that it is more enjoyable to spend less time and money in transit and more time at the destinations you have worked so hard to get to.
The problem is not whether it is technically do-able but how you want to spend your vacation hours.
A good experiement is to make a list including realistic time frames for: how many hours you will spend on each leg of the train rides between cities, including an allowance for packing and checking in/out of hotels, taking taxis to from train station, etc.
Why people are questioning the plan is not to be hyper-critical or jump all over you but because most have found in numerous trips to Europe that it is more enjoyable to spend less time and money in transit and more time at the destinations you have worked so hard to get to.
