Lvoverma

Hi, my husband and I are going to Europe next December. It will be our first time there and my life long dream. Although I want to visit Italy, Spain, France, Belgium, netherlands, Germany, and Switzerland I know that it's not realistic for us financially to plan such a long trip. So, hopefully if I list out some of my interests, i will get some suggestions or hints (or criticism) in return. Here goes: I am interested first and foremost in visiting Europe in December during Christmas season. Christmas markets are a must for us. However, the weather is also a concern. I have heard positive and negative things on the temperature in Europe during December. We are not scared of cold weather and in fact i would prefer it. But, i don't want to be snowed in or all locations be closed due to inclement weather. In addition to Christmas markets I thought that we could throw in Paris (eiffel tower, louvre, and also Normandy while in France). These are really the only sights i am interested in seeing in France.
I wantmy husband to see the Alps, preferrably near the area where "The Sound of Music" was filmed but i wouldnt be picky. So I thought Switzerland, but I'm getting the impression that the distance would be so great that i probably shoudn't waste time moving and just use my time wisely in the closer locations.
Also, i have read so many wonderful things about Amsteredam that i thought for the sake of time we could just cut out everything south of Germany and visit parts of france, netherlands, germany, and belgium. Leave out Italy and Spain, because honestly it seems like an entire trip in itself. So, is it realistic to try Germany, Netherlands, France, and Belgium in a 12 day trip? we are just not in a place financially to spend more time than 12 days. if we utilized the train and went on day trips, i think its do-able, but I have never traveled to Europe before. I would appreciate a little direction. As I said I have plenty more time to plan but after reading and reading, I need to know from an experienced traveler what is feasible and what is not.

spaarne

I suggest that you squeeze in Paris, Amsterdam, and Düsseldorf/ Köln for 12 days. For a train newbie see the illustrated introduction at http://tinyurl.com/eym5b.

The weather in northern Europe is much milder than in the USA, even though Amsterdam is 800 miles further north than Chicago. The Gulf Stream is the reason. It will probably be dripping but not snowing. Italy and Spain are too far for your time frame. The closest Alps can be seen, sometimes, from Geneva. On a very clear day you can see Mont Blanc. What an ice cube!!

Michel_Paris

Too many countries. Every tiem you change countries you lose touring time: you need to check out of hotel, you need tog et to train station, travel time, you need to find the hotel, you need to check in..then you start touring.

First day, jet lag. Last day, get to airport.

Easy way to look at this is to putr it on paper.

Day 1: land at 8:30. Customs, luggage, get to hotel. 11:30 AM
Lunch, ready to tour 1PM.

Day x: train is at 9:30. Need to get up at 6AM, breakfast, chekc out by 8AM, taxi to train station. Train to XXXXX, 3 hrs. At train station, find cab to hotel, check-in, grab a bit. Ready to tour at 4PM..

Etc...


Twelve days...I would say 2 locations (not countries). Then you might add in a day trip or two.

denisea

I encourage you to go to Paris! We were there last year over Christmas loved every second of it!

My T/R links are below, if you need convincing. The photo links are within the T/R. Also consider Strasborg if you are interested in Christmas markets...there was a great T/R and photos on the markets there last year.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-fantastic.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ch-smaller.cfm

Don't try to cram too much in...you will get lots more advice on this. Definitely best to skip Italy and Spain and I would limit it to 3 countries so you don't spend so much time in train stations.

greg

Is the 12 day limit coming from where you live or your perceived limitation of the cost of traveling in Europe?

Obviously, if the limitation is coming from where you live - needing to close business, vacation availability, etc. there is little that can be done. However, if the limit is coming from your perceived cost of traveling in Europe, there are many options. Different destinations have different price ranges. So if this is the case, it might benefit you looking at several different ininerary scenarios to actually estimate the budgeting angle rather than relying on the number of days based limitation alone.

pauljagman

You may want to limit your 12 days to fewer countries. It is possible to do the 4 you planned, it just wouldn't be much fun. Do something like fly into Amsterdam, spend 3 days there, take a train to Munich for 5 days with day trips to Ludwig's castles and a day in Salzburg Austria which is better known for it's Sound of Music tales than Switzerland,then take a train to Stausbourg for a couple days for a taste of French wine/culture. Then train back to Amsterdam and spend the rest of your time recouping before your flight. 12 days really goes fast!

Another thought is do a Christmas Cruise on a river boat. They are usually 7 or 8 day trips for the Christmas markets, different towns, different markets (same cabin including meals). You could spend a couple days pre or post cruise in Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich or even Paris. Personally, I would save Paris/Normandy/France for a separate vacation.

First time I saw the Alps I was blown away. Have fun planning!

nytraveler

First of all, do you rally have 12 days on the ground - or are you including the day yo arrive and depart - and so really have only 10 days.

Second, when asked their biggest mistake first tine travelers list trying to see too much in too little time as by far the biggest.

In the days you have - 3 destinations (3 hotels) at most. If you want to do a day trip from somewhere fine - but the more you move around the more expensive it is and the more time you waste.

As for weather, there are never any guarantees. Weather in parts of europe (not the alps - which are very cold and often heavy snow) is more like the mid atlantic states that the real winter of more northern states. But you can still get a lot of very chilly rain or snow.

Finally - to avoid wasting time backtracking fly into your first city and return from the last city - do not do a RT to one city.

If it were me I would stick to Paris and Germany (for the markets) seeing Strasbourg in between.

flpab

We are planning right now for a trip in March, have been to Germany in Feb and it was not bad. We are flying into Paris, taking the train to Caen and doing the D Day beaches with a rental car. Taking train back to Paris, doing a whirlwind tour, maybe spend the night and then taking the overnight train to Munich. We love Bavaria and you will feel like you are in the Sound of Music. Salzburg is several hours away but love Garmisch Partenkirchen and you will also. It is close to the most beautiful villages all within an easy train ride. Rothenburg, the walled city close to Frankfurt is great also. Fly out of Munich or Frankfurt. Have a great time. I would love to do the Christmas markets.

easytraveler

Agree with the others that you'll have a much more enjoyable trip if cut down to two destinations, no more than three. 12 days isn't really that much time.

You didn't say how old you are, but traveling can be tiring even for the young.

I'd suggest France (Paris, Strasbourg) and Germany. Here's a list of possible German Christmas markets, if you haven't run across it already.

http://gogermany.about.com/od/events...etsgermany.htm

I'd also suggest flying open jaw - into one city and out of another, so you don't have to backtrack.

Aramis

Look for an open jaw flight into Paris and out of Munich. 12 days is not much time.

You can see Paris for a few days, then take the train to Strasbourg, or straight to Munich. Travelling to Normandy, if you mean the beaches, is about a 4 hour trip and it would take several days from your total. Munich would make a great base for the Christmas markets with many famous markets, like Nuremberg's, within 90 minutes reach by train. Salzburg, is also within 90 minutes of Munich and would cover off your Sound Of Music desires perfectly - I presume you know it was primarily filmed in and around Salzburg.

Perhaps something like;

Paris 4
Strasbourg 2
Munich 4
Salzburg 2

Russ

"Christmas markets are a must for us... I wantmy husband to see the Alps... I thought that we could throw in Paris.. So, is it realistic to try Germany, Netherlands, France, and Belgium in a 12 day trip?"

Yes. But you might want to drop Belgium and Normandy.

My suggestions:

Belgium: 3 nights (Maybe a night in Brussels and 2 in Bruges?)

Paris: 3 nights (That's enough time to see the Eiffel tower and the Louvre, anyway.)

Nuremberg: 3 nights (the most famous of the Christmas markets; easy outings to Bamberg and Rothenburg.) You can get there by 2 pm if you're on a 7 am train from Paris Est. Jump on the 39-Euro tickets at the German railways site - they just went on sale there.

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

http://www.christkindlesmarkt.de/eng...p?navi=1&rid=2

http://www.bavaria.by/christmas-market-in-bamberg.html

Salzburg: 3 nights with an outing to Berchtesgaden and mountains around Königssee.

Lvoverma

Thank you so much for the responses. I was unclear. I meant that we are interested in staying in one hotel the entire time with day trips by train to other countries. with that said, does it make more sense, is it possible, and would it be overdoing it?

jamikins

I dont see how one base is feasible given what you want to see. You could base in Strasbourg and see places in Germany like Baden Baden as a day trip, and perhaps Paris (but that would be a waste). I believe the Sound of Music was filmed in Austria so there is no way you can do a day trip from France to see that. It will mean you will be spending a tonne of time and money on trains and not enjoying each place.

With 12 days I would fly into one place, and out of the last place you visit (open jaw, not two one ways) and limit your choice to 3 places.

denisea

The train system is Europe is great but you can't stay in one hotel the whole time and make day trips to the other countries.

So, no it makes less sense now. The countries are bigger than I think you realize. It would be train stations and trains the whole trip and little time seeing things.

Agree with a previous poster who recommended Paris and Germany.

jamikins

Sorry - meant to add, as first time travelers to Europe you may be assuming that these places are close together and feasible as day trips from a central location. Unfortunately they are not due to greater distances than you likely think and also due to the way train patterns work in each country.

Less really is more, especially on dark days (you may only get 8 hours light in Dec). The more you move the more time you waste in transit and the more you pay. Make yourself 3 bases and enjoy the time in each place!

PalenQ

So, is it realistic to try Germany, Netherlands, France, and Belgium in a 12 day trip? we are just not in a place financially to spend more time than 12 days. if we utilized the train and went on day trips.>

well yes but it depends if you just want to see say Cologne or one city in Germany and a few in Benelux - actually that Paris to Amsterdam to Cologne to Brussels triangle is very small and it could well be done IMO - but not to explore all those countries in that short a time.

Anyway for great rail info check out these fab IMO sources - www.budgeteuropetravel.com (check out their free and superb IMO online European Planning & Rail Guide for rail itineraries in those countries); www.ricksteves.com has similar possible rail itineraries and a wealth of other info and www.seat61.com.

almcd

If you are determined to stay in one place, Vienna might be the spot. From there you can access Preague, Budapest and Salzburg relatively easily. Munich as well is close by. Do not attempt too much in your limited time frame

lavandula

I'm with PalenQ on the Paris - Amsterdam - Cologne-Brussels itinerary. You would then have a taste of 4 countries, and from the train you would see some interesting contrasts in the landscape. Like everybody else I think it's not feasible to see as much as you had hoped in 12 days. 4 cities is good. IMO there is not normally all that much in Cologne except for the very spectacular cathedral (extraordinary when you think of the period of history when a building of that size was built) and some modest Roman ruins (and actually the shopping is pretty good), but at that time of the year there are 7 (!) Christmas markets in Cologne so it is worth a look.

Lavandula

Sassafrass

To see some of the things you would like to see, you really have to move at least two or three times during the trip. That really would not be too difficult.

Based on your interests, I would suggest Paris (skip Normandy this trip), the Garmish area (good Christmas shopping) of Germany (perhaps stopping in Strasbourg for a day), and one other place (either after or in between Paris and Germany).

You could visit Bruges for a couple of days and Amsterdam for a couple of days. You could get a cheap flight to Barcelona (or Seville) for four days. You could skip Germany and visit Bruges and Amsterdam, then fly to Barcelona or Seville.

You might also consider Paris (4/5 days), fly to Venice (3 days) & train to Rome (4/5 days. Fly into Paris, out of Rome.

These are just ideas to let you see how you might start planning and grouping things

Limit yourself to three basic places that you like most. The order I would do things would depend on cost of flights and which routes I could get.

Aramis

Time to get technical on logistics. Here are some train times - one way.

Paris - Brussels 01:30
Paris - Amsterdam 03:20
Paris - Strasbourg 02:20
Paris - Cologne 03:14

Is spending 3 to 7 hours per day on a train what you are interested in doing?

You could base yourself in Brussels and reduce the times to Amsterdam and Cologne, while getting good timely access to Brugge, Ghent, Antwerp, and other locations in the Netherlands and Germany but I don't think too many people would recommend a 12 night stay in Brussels.