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First time to Scotland or Wales - which to choose?
My husband and I are planning a 10-day visit to the UK in early October, and we've settled on either Scotland or Wales (10 days doesn't feel like enough time to do justice to both). We have never been to either one and can't decide - help!
A little about us: - We are in our 40s, fairly active. We'd like a few days of city time and a lot of countryside time. - We are comfortable self-driving (though probably will splurge for an automatic and not manual, to make it easier). - Husband likes hiking, history (especially WWII-era) and local food culture. I like medieval and Viking history, literary history, castles galore (the older the better, including ruins), dramatic scenery and art. - We both love the beach and the ocean. - We don't need luxurious accommodations but would prefer midrange/upscale and not chains. Any thoughts on which we might prefer? |
Tough call, but given the time of year I'd probably go with Scotland and (not mentioned but, hey, anyway...) the northeast coast of England.
Edinburgh is a fantastic starting point - it's small enough that you're not overwhelmed by complicated logistics, and there are enough sights to see and pubs to crawl for a lifetime. If you want to experience the Highlands, you can do it by car or save the driving for later and take one of many escorted day tours from the likes of Rabbies. In October you're not going to have summer crowds (or prices) so you'll have an easier time of things. But to meet your various aims (history, castles, coast etc.) the North Sea coast all the way south from Edinburgh to Durham and York is, well.. amazing. Google the places on this map - https://goo.gl/maps/5JTrdqacdpD2 . With your stated priorities I'd do it in a heartbeat. |
>>10 days doesn't feel like enough time to do justice to both<<
10 days doesn't do 'justice' to either one . . . especially Scotland. So which ever you choose you will have to be very selective what you include. I'd personally choose Scotland, but one can actually manage a pretty comprehensive tour of North Wales in 10 days - by flying into MAN, spending a couple of days there, seeing Chester and about a week in N Wales. For Scotland -- you'd want to fly in to either EDI or GLA . . . doesn't really matter which one. Then you have to do some real research on which few parts of Scotland or, as Gardyloo suggests, Scotland and a bit of NE England you want to visit. 10 days would give you a couple of days for Edinburgh and then only a week for elsewhere. The Borders and Northumberland and at a stretch York would be doable. Or Fife and the NE Castle Trail area. Or the Trossachs and a bit of Argyll and maybe Mull. Or Glencoe, Skye and a bit f the Trossachs (though the would mean a lot more driving for possibly no reward if the weather doesn't cooperate on Skye. Rabbies is an excellent idea. Here are there 2-6 day offerings from Edinburgh. https://www.rabbies.com/en/scotland-...from-edinburgh They also do very good day trips. Always small groups (max 16 - often fewer) ••• edit: Oops -- tried to link just the multi-day tours, but it displays everything - but that will give you more to check out. |
Cities: Scotland has Edinburgh and Glasgow can be a decent visit too. Wales...forget the cities. The best city in Wales is Bristol :-)
Scenery: Both have amazing scenery and hiking/walking. Wales for sea, hills, colour and mining history. Scotland is more 'wild' and more dramatic. Food: Hit or miss in both (sorry, London snobbery). Pretty much a toss up but I'd give an edge to Scotland here. However, if you manage your own expectations, Wales can provide satisfying food after days of hiking/walking. Let's just say that you ain't visiting these places for the food. Convenience: Depending on where you're flying from, you can have very different levels of ease in arriving into Wales vs Scotland. Significant factor as you'll want to maximise your days after arrival to your final destination. Agree not to try both in 10 days but 10 days will give you a very good amount of time in one or the other. For many Brits, Scotland and Wales are long weekend destinations so 10 days can be generous. From what you say about yourselves, I think you can have a great time in either. Perhaps you need to peruse the travel books or web and see which one stirs the most emotion. Both can be amazing places to visit. Often underrated but incredibly beautiful...both of them. |
>>Let's just say that you ain't visiting these places for the food.<<
Big misconception IMO -- three of my favorite restaurants anywhere (US, UK, Paris, you name it) are in Scotland. Sure you can find dreck as you can anywhere, but the general standard is quite good. Scotland has 10 Michelin stars (used to be 15 but that's another story). Wales has 7. >>For many Brits, Scotland and Wales are long weekend destinations . . .<<. absolutely --- a weekend somewhere in Scotland or Wales is easy peasy and wonderful. But that is not 'seeing' Scotland. Sort of like saying a weekend in San Francisco is the same as 'seeing' California. |
Originally Posted by janisj
(Post 16891891)
>>Let's just say that you ain't visiting these places for the food.<<
Big misconception IMO -- three of my favorite restaurants anywhere (US, UK, Paris, you name it) are in Scotland. Sure you can find dreck as you can anywhere, but the general standard is quite good. Scotland has 10 Michelin stars (used to be 15 but that's another story). Wales has 7. >>For many Brits, Scotland and Wales are long weekend destinations . . .<<. absolutely --- a weekend somewhere in Scotland or Wales is easy peasy and wonderful. But that is not 'seeing' Scotland. Sort of like saying a weekend in San Francisco is the same as 'seeing' California. Your comparison with San Francisco/California is a very poor one. i never said that Brits typically aim to see ALL of Scotland in a weekend. My point was that in 10 days you can do either "justice" in a visit. California is more like ALL of Italy in terms of the variety and volume of what you can see. Wales or Scotland is more like Maine. Many NY'er or people from Boston go to Maine for a long weekend. 10 days in Maine is much longer than many people have ever spent in Maine. 10 days in Maine would be treat for many who might just spend a weekend in Maine but spend longer vacation times elsewhere. |
North Wales is a compact area with many neat sights like castles like Beaumarais and Caernarfon's Royal Castle and Conwy, a neat old town dominated by its castle - makes a great base for ascending Snowdon - England & Wales highest mountain, by foot or steam train. Beaumarais to me is one of Europe's most gorgeous castles for its exterior sittting on a lovely seaside. The Great Orme is a cool place too - just opposite Comwy this huge rock of a mountain has an antique tramway going up it or again some nice footpaths - nature center and great views up above.
The Conway Valley railway is known for its natural beauty and neat flower bedecked towns along the way. It leads to the Ffestiniog Railway, one of Britain's most famous railways as this old mining train circles up to Blaenau Ffestiniog, which to me 15 years ago was kind of like Britain's Appalachia - old slate mining town - the railway continues down to the seaside and the main line that hugs the coast to southern Scotland. Llandudno - by Conwy - is one of Britain's still thriving seaside resorts - a bustling regional town which for young folk rocks at night as folks from northern England flock there on weekends (or did....and assume still do). On a clear day you can see Blackpool and its famous tower - modeled on the Eiffel Tower but a bit shorter. To get to North Wales one could easlly hit Shrewsbury, a really neat city, and Bath,etc. So for a really nice part of north Wales and some England stop in between that could make a nice 10 days. And best of all travel is kept to a minimum. Heading out from London you could stop by Stonehenge and or the Avebury Circle that some like more than Stonehenge - probably because of the lack of overwhelming crowds and you can still wander thru the stones where sheep graze. Anyway enjoyed my sojourn in North Wales very very much. Was surprised to see how many folks still speak Welsh as their daily language - though probably should not have been. |
Yes with 10 days you cannot see all of anyplace (save North Wales IME) but you can see a lot of a small area. Keep distances short and try basing - you do not want to do like Californians do and drive long ways to spend a few days in the mountains, for example.
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Here’s a list of your interests and my opinion on whether Scotland or Wales best meets them. Wales, as someone has already mentioned doesn’t really have cities. You need Scotland for that. Edinburgh is one of my favorite cities. In fact, it’s probably my most favorite and I’ve visited cities through out Europe. Hiking: Both places have excellent hiking possibilities. History esp. WWII: Your best bet here would be London with the obvious visits to the Churchill War Rooms and HMS Belfast. Very little in Scotland and probably less so in Wales. Medieval and Viking History: Both Wales and Scotland will satisfy your medieval interests but for the Vikings little remains in Wales. The Vikings did raid the coastlines but never made much of an impact on the interior. York, offers a good example of Viking influence but In Scotland Viking history is pretty much confined to the far north and on Orkney and the Shetland Islands. The National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh has some Viking relics. Literary history: Both provide considerable literary history. It just depends on your which interest you the most. For Wales The Mabinogion is probably the most famous example of Welsh literature. Scotland has a rich history in literature with such writers as Sir Walter Scott, Robert Burns, Boswell, Robert Louis Stevenson, Sir Conan Doyle etc. Castles: Again both places have plenty of castles although Scotland has more complete castles meaning those that have decorated, furnished rooms. Dramatic scenery: Both win out here but I’d give the nod to Scotland for more dramatic scenery. Snowdonia in Wales might be the exception. Art: I’ll say Scotland has far more prominent artists than Wales. The National Gallery in Edinburgh is excellent. There is a floor devoted especially to Scottish artists. Beach/ Ocean: I’m going to assume this is just for viewing, walking along. The water will be absolutely frigid. Here again, the most dramatic scenery is in Scotland. The Welsh shoreline for the most part is pretty tame. You also inquired about accommodation stating mid-range/ upscale. This tells us very little. One person’s moderate is another’s high end or even budget. Give us a number including currency. We can’t assume you’re dealing in US dollars. |
Maybe you can split your time between northern Wales (tons of medieval history- make sure you read up on the conflict between the Welsh and the English as there still is a strong sense of nationalism, especially around Caernarvon) and Edinburgh (for the city part of your trip- Museum of Scotland for sure) with a drive between the two?
My two cents: The War Memorial at the castle in Edinburgh was extremely moving for me. The food in small bistros in northern Wales was wonderful- cheeses, lamb, real ale, and local gin! You can't escape the seashore in Wales. |
The Welsh shoreline for the most part is pretty tame. I ate very well in Conwy.... It's true that last year's Good Food Guide devotes 50 pages to Scotland and only 30 to Wales, but Scotland is bigger. |
I have been to Pembrokeshire and it does have some fabulous coastline but North Wales does not. North Wales is compact making it easier to include numerous sites without traveling very far. Traveling as far as Pembrokeshire and into the Breacon Beacons would mean covering a much larger area. Most Welsh castles were built by Edward I while the building of Scottish castles was more varied. Probably doesn’t make much difference to most tourists as to who, why and when castles were built. As for food, with a little research excellent food can be found almost anywhere in Great Britain. |
Pembrokeshire has beautiful coastal scenery -- the rest of Wales not so much. As for castles - probably 2,000 survive in Scotland (probably 1000+ with substantial remains), while about 100 still exist in Wales.
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If you are only going to see four or five castles the total number available is not significant. |
Originally Posted by historytraveler
(Post 16892167)
Most Welsh castles were built by Edward I while the building of Scottish castles was more varied. Probably doesn’t make much difference to most tourists as to who, why and when castles were built. |
Thank you! And the winner is: Wales!
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