janisj

You have 3 teenagers (who might want to sleep in now and then) and a 4yo who hsa his own issues. I would much rather have a fun/family friendly trip to maybe 3 destinations and not try to cover so much. Two cities - Rome & Venice maybe plus 5 to 7 days in a rural villa with a pool and interesting day trips nearby would be much more fun for everyone IMO

neckervd

I cannot find any Venice - Siena connection (train-train or train-bus) in less than 4 hrs.
But that's not the question.
I don't think that it's very helpful to add train journey times. IMO it's more important to avoid long journey times (more than 3 1/2 hrs) in the same train and train rides that cut the whole day (may be between 11am and 3pm).
For 3-4 hrs journeys, I usually prefer departures in late afternoon (with dinner in the dining car or pic-nic at the seat). So I can spend almost the full day for visits, beach life, hikes or whatever.
For the Venice - Manarola journey, I would probably leave Venice at 16.35, change trains at Bologna, arrive at Parma at 19.09, check into a hotel close to the railway station, stroll through the historic city center, have dinner in a small restaurant there and leave Parma the following morning at
7.50, with arrival at Manarola at 1026.
But frankly, what will you do in tiny Manarola during 2-3 days? Everyday another hike?

Jean

When considering late afternoon train rides, think about how you'll deal with the luggage between checking out of the hotel and heading to the station. Most hotels will allow you to leave your luggage for a few hours, but this means you have to return to the hotel which could be somewhat inconvenient depending on the locations of sightseeing/hotel/station. I am so not a morning person, but sometimes an early train feels more convenient overall. Yes, you have the luggage issue at the other end and must head to the hotel there first, but you don't feel like you're repeatedly checking the time and hoping nothing trips you up.

I also think many decisions might have to be based on the 4 y.o. and how well he/she is recovering from the overnight flight, adjusting to the time, the pace of travel, etc. Even if the first day is OK, he/she may crash on the second or third day. Also, a fast-paced itinerary, no matter how energetic everyone is, leaves no room for hiccups like train delays and (the thing people usually forget) time to do laundry.

TDudette

You could make Siena and Manarola day trips from Florence. Add those days to Rome and Flo. Have a super time.

Adelaidean

Our teens loved our 3 night stay in Vernazza in the height of the summer ‘crush’. We walked to Monterosso and took the ferry to Portovenere, and enjoyed the quiet mornings in the town. No denying it is packed during the day, I guess we kind of escaped it.
Feedback from the boys was to minimise too much moving between bases, or long travel days.

This is is my report from that trip, our first to Italy

Northern Italy and a bit of Bavaria, a family trip

shilohh

I like the trip report (especially since it features the reality of traveling with a couple teenagers). And for the midday vs dinnertime train question, there is certainly merit to both approaches—it really depends on the lodging/transportation details. As far as considering Siena or Manarola as day trip options, that is not really something we are even considering. I've looked into those places enough to know that if we want to enjoy them without hordes of people around us, we should stay overnight. So I'd rather skip them than go for a day trip. Padua, Burano, Vicenza, and Lucca on the other hand, are at least possible decent day trip options (will likely only pick one or two for the trip). And as far as traveling with a group of teens/kids.... while we want to see different places, we aren't planning on dragging everyone from church to church—we will generally have only one target site in a day so that we can have either a morning or afternoon with no plans and not feel rushed to see everything in every place we visit. We've taken some recommendations to heart and certainly appreciate the good notes about Siena and the suggestion of Burano and Lucca (even though we won't likely get to see both). Despite some suggestions to only stay in two or three cities over a two-week period, we added a stop in Orvieto in between Rome and Venice. It actually works out to be less travel time than doing it as a day trip while we are Rome. And it gives us a glimpse into a smaller nearby town in our tour of larger cities. So, with that, here is what will likely be the final itinerary (it's only final after we book lodging next week, though).

• Arrive in Florence and train to Rome
  • (1.5hr train)
• Rome 4 nights (M,T,W,Th) (~3.5 full days in Rome)
  • (1.5hr train)
• Orvieto 1 night (Fri) (leave Rome apartment around 11:00, arrive in Orvieto around 1:00) (~1 full day in Orvieto)
  • (5hr train)
• Venice 4 nights (Sat,Sun,M,T) (visit Padua and/or Burano, both are very close by) (~3 full days in Venice, half day or so visiting nearby areas)
  • (4hr train/bus)
• Siena 2 nights (W,Th) (~1.5 full days in Siena)
  • (1.5hr bus)
• Florence 3 nights (Fr,Sat,Sun) (possibly visit Lucca but likely just stay in Florence) (~2.5 full days in Florence)

bilboburgler

Looks fine, I'd look into getting the vaporetto pass for some of the days, Venice has a good transport website I'll let you find
Since this is your first visit to Italy you may enjoy the passeggiata which is the evening stroll around to meet "everyone" depending on where you stay you will see it in Siena, Orvieta and in some areas of the other cities. Very much a time to eat a snack, drink a drink or share a gelato.
Gelato...........do your research

neckervd

" As far as considering Siena or Manarola as day trip options, that is not really something we are even considering"

You are so right!

TDudette

My suggestion was based on making as few moves as possible. At a minimum, you lose 1/2 a day when moving from one hotel to another.

ssander

...and moving around with four kids (one of which is four) will likely take even longer than most Fodorites estimate. Numerous bathroom breaks, misplaced/forgotten stuff, spills and drops, etc.
ssander

suze

Well 6 places is about 3-4 too many for me for a two week trip, but it seems like that is the kind of itinerary you are seeking for your family... so I say at this point... go for it!

suze

Another small note and consideration... I would definitely never want to get on a train directly off a long plane flight. For even a few hours of travel, that would push me over the edge! Land after a long overseas flight with no sleep, get myself out of the airport and then to the train station, find and take train, get to new city and find and check into hotel while suffering from the time change and jet lag. And all before sleeping after the long flight does not sound appealing to me at all.

StCirq

Well, I always got on a train right after an overnight flight, though usually the train left directly from the airport, but with four kids, you're right, that could be truly unpleasant.

PalenQ

Your last itinerary looks really sweet. Perfect IMO. San Gimignano (sp?) is a smaller hill town near Siena - bus from Florence and buses between Siena and San Gimi. St Gimi is very popular, especially for its slew of medieval towers where wealthy folks could literally reside above the rabble down below (and pestilences like smallpox too!) Many towers thoughout this earthquake prone area have toppled down over time so San Gimi's are exceptional.

suze

Sure, I agree, traveling alone or with one adult partner and IF the train station and the airport were the same location I might consider it... but probably not -haha- I personally would grab a hotel nearby and wait until the next morning to continue on. But then I get slammed really bad with jet lag coming all the way from Seattle.

Dayle

Im glad you decided to include Orvieto! It remains one of my most favorite places after 4 trips. But, there is a lot to see there that would probably be of interest to your teens. If you dont get there until 1pm, you wont have enough time. Checkout the underground tour (English version) times, St. Patricks Well, the gorgeous duomo, the Etruscan tomb excavation site. There is also an excellent Etruscan museum, but after Rome, you may not need more museum time.

consider leaving Rome early in the morning to make a real day in Orvieto. Personally, I liked Orvieto much more than Siena.

StCirq

I never had to deal with that coming to Europe from the West Coast of the USA, so yeah, I imagine that could just knock your socks off. OTOH, for me the jetlag bummer beyond belief was always going west back to the USA. It sometimes too me a full week or more to recover.

I agree with you, Dayle, about Orvieto, a really fine town (as are many of the small towns in Umbria that people don't visit so much). Siena? Wonderful when you've got tickets to the Palio and all its attendant celebrations. The rest of the time way overhyped IMO.

The Etruscan museum in Chiusi is, IMO, spectacular.

thursdaysd

Jet lag hits different people differently. Going US to Europe, some people power through to bedtime, and some are wiped out on arrival. I like to keep going until after lunch and then get three hours or so asleep, so I would not hang around the airport. If the flight gets in in the morning, what are you going to do for the rest of the day?

ssander

We are similar to Thursdaysd...keep going till afternoon, then a hour or two nap. We tried powering through till bedtime, and it was impossible. My brain just shut down at around 3 pm.
SSander