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FIRST TIME TO ITALY

MY WIFE AND I ARE FIRST TIME VISITORS TO ITALY. WE ARE TRAVELLING WITH TWO COUPLES (FAMILY) 6 ADULTS TOTAL. ONE COUPLE HAS BEEN ON THE PERILLO ITALY 10 OR 13 DAY VARIETY AND HAS VISITED ALL THE BIG CITIES SO I AM ATTEMPTING TO PUT A TRIP TOGETHER WHICH SATISFIES OUR "BIG CITY" REQUIREMENTS ALONG WITH AREAS WHICH THE REPEAT VISITORS HAVEN'T SEEN YET. IF I COULD GET SOME ADVICE REGARDING THE FOLLOWING FIRST SHOT I WOULD BE EXTREMELY GRATEFULL.WE WILL FLY TO ROME AND STAY 3 NIGHTS. THEN TRAIN TO FLORENCE AND SPEND 3 NIGHTS,RENT A CAR AND DRIVE THRU TUSCANY 4/5 DAYS USING ALL THE GOOD INFO I HAVE GARNERED FROM THIS WEBSITE. THE ONE COUPLE (REPEAT VISITORS) WOULD THEN FIND THEIR WAY BACK TO ROME FOR THE TRIP HOME WHILE WE 2 OR 4 WOULD STAY ANOTHER WEEK TO SEE VENICE AND PERHAPS THE AMALFI COAST. WE WOULD TRAIN TO VENICE OR WE WOULD SAVE VENICE FOR ANOTHER TRIP AND DRIVE TO AMALFI OR SORRENTO?? SO THE QUESTIONS ARE: ARE THE TIME ALLOCATIONS IN ROME,FLORENCE,AND TUSCANY O.K.? WOULD YOU PICK A CENTRAL SPOT IN TUSCANY TO STAY AND TAKE DAY TRIPS OR LIVE OUT OF THE SUITCASE? WE WERE THINKING OF APRIL/MAY 2002 (NOT EASTER). CAN YOU GET A RENTAL CAR FOR 6 AND LUGGAGE? (3 ARE WOMEN,NEED I SAY MORE) WOULD WE BE BETTER OFF DUMPING THE CAR BACK IN FLORENCE AND TRAIN TO AMALFI AREA? HELP ME PLEASE MY MARRAIGE OF 46 YEARS COULD DEPEND ON THIS PLAN.

Bob: Learn to stop shouting, it will do wonders for your marriage.

First things first, Bob - all caps is very hard to read, and connotes yelling. If you have further questions, do everyone - including yourself - a favor and use standard upper/lower case. It's easier on the eyes. Your Rome/Florence time looks good; living out of a suitcase is tough, so a central base in Tuscany with day trips is easier on everyone. I would say to do either Venice, or the Amalfi coast - too big a distance between the two to do both effectively. You're going to need a minivan - no car is going to hold 6 adults comfortably, with their luggage; you could rent *two* cars, which gives you some freedom to go separate ways.

Well, I am only soon to be a first-time Italy visitor, but I had the same reaction as above. Amalfi and Venice are too far apart to do at that stage of the trip without being somewhat of a headache and time waster. Why not dump the car after Tuscany, train to the Cinque Terre (2-3 days there), and then train to Venice? In regards to the all-caps type, I only consider it shouting if the context says so, and in your case it obviously doesn't. Actually, it could be said that it is very typical - Americans type in extra large type, whereas the English type in very tiny type.

Hi Bob, The time you allowed for Rome, Florence and Tuscany are good for a first time visit if you decide ahead of time what your priorities are as far as "must sees." For Tuscany, you can select a base and do day trips. That way you can really get a taste and feel of the area. And you will need the countryside to unwind after almost a week in Rome and Florence. Or you might want to select two different spots for two nights each. We stayed in Siena which is a "must see." It is Florence without all the hustle and bustle. On our trip in March, we chose the Amalfi Coast area because my husband had family in the Naples area...so Venice will have to wait until next time (assuming it is still above water!). Amalfi, Positano, Pompeii were all wonderful and definitely worth a trip...I'd love to go back. The weather in March was delightful and the crowds were very light. April and May is a bit busier, but the weather should be fine as well. For six, your auto options are limited. But if you pack light, you can manage four in a larger auto when in Tuscany. We had two suitcases, a 30" and a 26" and even our cousin's very large Volvo could not fit the two in the trunk! The car is essential for Tuscany, but trains are best for the rest of your travels. We used taxis extensively in Rome and Florence...they are cheap and save your feet for sightseeing. If I can answer any other questions, let me know. Have a great time

I agree with the other posters, to do both Venice and the Amalfi coast on the same trip would be too much. I would choose Venice, because I think it's magical and because I don't really like southern Italian food. Re Tuscany, I would suggest 2 base towns. There are a lot of little, windy roads in Tuscany, and to stay in one place only will limit your range a bit. Maybe Volterra and Siena, or San Gimignano and a town in Chianti, for example. Siena is a must-see, and I love people-watching there, but parking there (and getting in and out for day trips) is a big hassle. If you're going to Venice from Tuscany, you could drive there, then drop off your car in Venice. I also would vote for the 2 cars idea, to provide more flexibility.

Hello Bob, Even a van will be tight for 6 senior adults and luggage. You are wise to start now---that is a good time to go to Italy. Here are some sample itineraies that may help you to plan your time. It will be very tough to do both Amalfi and Venice. BOB the NAVIGATORS’ FIVE FAVORITE ITINERARIES ________________________________________ MAGICAL FAIRYLANDS: * Arrive and depart from Munich--14 nites--May thru Sep.--car travel * ITINERARY: Salzburg, Dolomites, Venice, Lake Garda, Bavaria ============================================ BELLA ITALIA: * Arrive Milan, depart Venice--15 nites--car & train travel--April thru Oct. * ITINERARY: The Lakes, Ligurian coast, Tuscany, Florence, Venice ============================================ CLASSIC ITALIA: * Arrive & depart Rome--12 to 14 nites--car & train travel, all year * ITINERARY: Florence, Tuscan & Umbrian hilltowns, Rome ============================================ LA DOLCE VITA: * Arrive & depart Rome--12 nites--car & train travel--March thru Oct. * ITINERARY: Amalfi coast, Tuscany hilltowns, Rome ============================================ OF ALPS & LAKES: * Arrive and depart Zurich--12 nites--train travel--June thru Sep. * ITINERARY: Berner Oberland, Lugano, Lake Como, Luzern ========================================

Thanks for the input,Venice can wait for a second visit. I apologize for shouting but it is so much easier to type in caps for we novice typists. I hope this is better. The two car concept is good.I was letting costs get in my way. I was considering two home bases in Tuscany and it sounds like some of you agree.I guess my next round of questions pertain to hotels and towns to visit. The more I peruse this site the more I feel that in the Tuscany area you can hardly miss. So far my list includes Gubbio,Pisa,Mantalcino,Sienna,Chianti area,Orvieto,San Gimianno,and Chiusi. While its true that I don't ride trains I have noticed that most of you feel that train travel is cheap or reasonable. From some of the fares quoted it seems to me that 4 in a car would be more reasonable if you like to drive and time is not critical. Am I mistaken??

Bob, Driving is the only good way to see Tuscany and Umbria. Get a good map and locate the places you mention. That is a very large area to cover. I would plan on 2 locations and five days to cover much of Tuscany, but you need to look at the geography.Two of your choices are actually in Umbria, and if you do Umbria then you must do Assisi. Holler if you need specifics---there are dozens of cool places to see.

Dear Bob, your trip sounds wonderful. I'll volunteer to go as your baggage handler! We picked up a car in Siena, drove north on the Chianti hwy. about 20 minutes to the tiny village of San Sano (so small it's only on the most detailed maps). Highly recommend the Hotel Residence San Sano in Fodor's Inns of Charm, Italy. Anyway, I too would vote for the 2 car plan. Your group will probably end up better friends in the end with more options. Also, in Chianti the roads are quite windy, so drive times take longer than you think, plus allowing for the occasional wrong turn/photo op. We stayed in San Sano 4 nights & did day trips. 1. San Gimignano/Volterra (long day) 2. Siena 3. Gaiole 4. wine tasting/lunch at La Badia di Colibuono (SP?) - get reservations - excellent, then a lazy afternoon at the pool. If I had it to do over, I would have divided up Chianti to 2 locations, we did a LOT of driving. From there we drove down to Orvieto with a side trip to Montepulciano on the way. Stayed in Orvieto 3 nights & did Deruta (ceramic shopping) & Civita di Bagnoreggio as day trips. Be SURE to go to Civita, it's truly unique and was one of our highlights. Buon viaggio!

Bob - first of all, I wasn't offended by your all-caps note. You sound like a prince of a guy. I took the clue that with 46 years of marriage behind you, you might have grown up at a time when men didn't type much! I admire your sense of adventure. Also, I might just be in the minority by not ruling out seeing both Venice and the Amalfi coast, or at least Pompeii, particularly if you can extend your trip for just a couple of days and plan it a bit more efficiently (see suggestions below about skipping the Rome-Florence train trip and open jaw tickets). Who knows when you'll make it back to Italy, there are so MANY other places to see too! Anyway, ironic that you've been discouraged from seeing both Venice and Amalfi and yet others have suggested way too much to cover in only 4 or 5 days in Tuscany and Umbria so you might have to narrow your goals in that area a bit. The Cinque Terre area, in lieu of Amalfi is a nice idea. I agree that you should not base yourself in only one place in Tuscany, but probably two different places for 2 - 3 nights each. Rather than taking a train between Rome and Florence, I recommend that you rent a car in Rome (the guy at Avis in the Rome Termini rail station gave us excellent driving directions to exit Rome with no problem - much to my surprise). You can use your car tour of Tuscany/Umbria to make your way toward Florence where you can return the car (be sure to get equally good directions for the car rental return). If you do want to go to Venice by car you can and it would be cheaper for 6 of you than the train but at least one train ride is fun and the hassle factor in picking up/dropping off a car (or two) only for intercity transport isn't worth it in my opinion. There is a nice Eurostar Italia train from Florence S.Maria station to Venice S. Lucia station that takes less than 3 hours...and, as for Venice two nights there is enough for me. The best way to deal with the distance between Rome and Venice is with an open-jaw ticket, perhaps flying into Rome and home from Venice or vice versa. It's usually more expensive than roundtrip but you have to factor in the time and transportation savings you'll net in doing so. As to the hill towns to visit...I would scratch Chiusi off your list unless you are "spa" people. We drove through there in April and it was a ghost town of modern spa hotels. Orvieto is wonderful and your best hill town stop after leaving Rome. Siena is also a must see. If you can stretch it, Assisi is wonderful (I recommend Anne Robichaud's all day tour, including lunch in her home..see www.annesitaly.com) Personally, I would skip Pisa due to distance (and in favor of Venice)...it's really just the tower and not much more. On Rick Steve's website you can check the "Graffiti Board" for great discriptions of 'favorite virgin hilltowns.' www.ricksteves.com Do get yourself a really good road map (e.g., Michelin) at the book store. Also, buy an Eyewitness Guide to Italy and study up on road signs. The Autostrade is a piece of cake, but those one-way medieval town roads require care that you don't get stuck. Many of them narrow into oblivion...you need to know the signs for one-way ("Senso Unico") and pedestrian only or do not enter. As you enter each town, follow the signs to the town center ("Centro Storico") and look for public parking as high up as you can...or prepare for lots of uphill walking. Finally, I think the suggestion that you actually rent two cars is a good one. You might find that not all six people want to go the same way each day. Buon Viaggio!