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First Time To Europe Itinerary. Thoughts? Suggestions? Please

First Time To Europe Itinerary. Thoughts? Suggestions? Please

Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:22 PM
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I get bored quickly and don't like "relaxing" much either when I travel. In 2015, I did what sounds like an exhausting two week road trip through Bosnia and Croatia with many one night stops. But most of the places I stopped were small, so I didn't need much time to get my orientation. In a city like Paris or Amsterdam, it takes a lot longer just to figure out a basic orientation. (Venice isn't as big as the others but is also very confusing with all of its charming pedestrian streets.)

My personal preference about Munich was: I had only a few hours there before heading on to Salzburg (which I loved) and that actually seemed enough to me. I didn't get a warm fuzzy about Munich at all for some reason. I didn't care much for Berlin either, actually, but my four nights there weren't wasted because there is a lot to see - and I am a history buff especially about the Cold War and World War II. Some people absolutely adore Berlin for some reason - I don't really get it myself.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:24 PM
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Based on where they are on the map.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:25 PM
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>>> it will not be our only trip to Europe.

If this is the case, think cumulatively. While it seems premature, tentatively layout all your future trips you can think of. What you would find is that if your future trip is to France, you are likely to require staying in Paris at arrival or departure. Then the next one, and next one, and so on and you tend to stay in Paris a lot over your travel life even if your destinations in France would be elsewhere such as Normandy, Alsace, Loire Valley, etc. If this is the case, you might consider reducing, not eliminating, Paris this time.

Same is for Rome. All your future trip to Tuscany, Umbria, and Campania regions would likely to involve staying in Rome at departure time even if your intended destination for your future trips do not include Rome. If your are visiting Northern Italy, you would likely to stay in Venice or Milan regardless of these two cities being the actual destinations of your future trips.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:26 PM
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I too am interested in the WWII stuff. Thank you all for your responses so far, it is helpful. Berlin seems like it has some good museums.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:29 PM
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mg, if you don't know why you are going to a place, better do your homework, or skip it.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:30 PM
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I'll try and think cumulatively, thanks. I already have a trip in my head planned for the UK so I'll think about other future trips as well and see what I can do this time and save for another. On some level I have a fear that I'll never do or see enough no matter what haha.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:32 PM
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or just go and be surprised. There are so few surprises in life after all. But yes I will do some more research. My main goal was just to try out this rough itinerary idea and see what people thought. I've looked at enough of these forums to realize that everybody has a different opinion. So ultimately I just need to do what I think is best and see for myself. Thanks!
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:35 PM
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Unlike many cites, Berlin has a lot of "outdoor" museums. There are little historical plaques and info boards all over the place, even in some U-Bahn stations. Look for them.

I'm not a museum person, but I still forced myself to see most of the German History Museum. (I visited in one day with a long break for lunch.) I can see why people like it, but very little of it really stuck with me - e.g. the section on the rise of the Nazis in the interwar period. I didn't realize how many little fringe groups there were running around in the era that seem a lot like the Nazis, even wearing their own armbands! - but only the Nazis really managed to thrive and then stifle the others.

Potsdam is an easy day trip from Berlin by train. I didn't go inside any of the old palaces except the Cecilienhof "palace" (really a big mansion) where the famous Potsdam Conference took place at the end of World War II. You can stand in the room where the Big Three met, preserved from the time, including the conference table. I stood in there for a long time and got chills imagining Churchill, Truman, and Stalin in that room with their aides and interpreters, banging out agreements that still couldn't prevent the Cold War.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 03:40 PM
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France, Italy, Greece? Anyone? 1 week each? probably too short.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 05:21 PM
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For 3 weeks, I would pick two countries. I spent 10 days in Germany on my first trip and then a week each in Italy, Paris, and London. I don’t believe you’ve got to spend 3 weeks “immersed” in Paris and I totally understand having limited vacation time. That said, a week was NOT long enough anywhere, and I really wanted to see more of Italy and France. Even the smaller places have a lot to see. I thought I’d de done with Venice after 2 nights, and someone here recommended 4. I am very glad I took their advice! Some cities- like Paris- can be about sites and have great transportation, so less time is needed. But Rome needs more time to be appreciated. The transit is less convenient and the whole city is layers upon layers.

I can’t tell if you’re still considering your original plan, but for what it’s worth, Munich was my least favorite place in Germany. Good museums, delicious beer, a really interesting church, but I didn’t find it as scenic or as interesting as the other places I visited- Nuremberg, Erfurt, Dresden, Regensburg. I’d love to go back to Germany but the only reason I’d go back to Munich is that it’s a convenient base.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 05:54 PM
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Thank you that's helpful. I'm going to try to limit it to fewer places with more time in each. That being said, I think if you are focusing on specific cities rather than thinking of 'doing' whole countries you can do a bit more if that's your jive. I might save Germany for a different trip. Or go back to Italy another time. I don't know, still have a fair amount of time to figure it out I guess. I do appreciate everyone's different views. The general common theme, being go to fewer places!
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 06:18 PM
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Dayle, some of these places (amsterdam, munich) were chosen based on their proximity to other places but are likely also really great, just not must-see or whatever. Although I'm starting to think Amsterdam might be crucial. It's so close to Paris too. I wish I could find a few more things like that. Maybe there's a nice spot between amsterdam and berlin?
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 07:16 PM
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You could just fly between Amsterdam and Berlin. Lots of budget flights, and the main airports of each are pretty close to center of town (unlike Paris, where CDG is a ways away from the center).

Many people would stop in Belgium between Paris and Amsterdam - the train goes right through Brussels anyway. The first time I took that train, I stopped for just a few hours in Brussels just to get a taste of Belgium. It's fairly easy stop - enough to answer the question, "Should I come back to Belgium someday?" (I did.)
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 08:01 PM
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My best advice is to start reading a few good guidebooks. That's the best method for getting an overview of where you're thinking about going, along with help on practical issues. Then you can do more in-depth reading and asking specific questions.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 11:03 PM
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I would not recommend taking a night train to Venice. It's a useless point to avoid paying for a hotel room.
I'd rather sleep in a comfortable hotel bed.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 11:40 PM
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Oh, another thing- I got a bit tired of cities. I did Rome, then Paris then London, in a row. All world class. But kind of wearing on the nerves, and if I planned a multiple country trip again, I’d find away to break it up.

The last thing- we have so little history/culture in the states (relatively) that one of the things I truly wasn’t expecting is how much there is to see in a decent sized European town or village or even in a rural area. It’s not just compact- the attractions are much denser than even the northeast US. Or the city itself is an attraction. I’m usually a museum person, and I can usually reliably plan out how long a place is going to take. But that didn’t work as well in Europe. Every church has priceless art, every square a statue or fountain, even train stations can be interesting. So even if you only wanted to hit the major cities, I still would not do more than 3 main places. I had a lot of day trips planned, especially near Paris, that I did not get done because I had simply underestimated how much there was to see.
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Old Nov 24th, 2017, 11:45 PM
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Point of the above- even if you did just Rome, Paris, and Munich, there will not be any “laying around and relaxing” unless you force yourself to! That is definitely not something you need to worry about!
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Old Nov 25th, 2017, 01:59 AM
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Forget the overnight train Berlin - Munich: it doesn't run any longer. But normal day train journeys take just 4 hrs, for example Berlin dp 18.05 - Munich ar 22.03.
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Old Nov 26th, 2017, 07:38 AM
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France, Italy, Greece? Anyone? 1 week each? probably too short.>

Possible:

Paris
take overnight train to Venice
Rome
fly to Athens

pretty simple really.
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Old Nov 26th, 2017, 08:06 AM
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Munich and Amsterdam would not be my first Must See choices. And Athens in and of itself is not on that list either. More time in Rome with a day trip to Ostia, add Florence with possible day trips to Sienna, Pisa. Extended stay in Venice to get to the other islands in the Lagoon and maybe a day trip to Trieste, Vincenza, Verona??????
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