First time to Europe and bringing kids!
 

We are planning a long awaited trip to Europe for my next birthday and we have a 7 year old and 10 year old. We would like to see definitely Italy and Portugal and possibly Spain or France. We plan on spending two weeks total. Any suggestions on which areas to stay, things to do, etc. OR, given the ages of the kids, are we just better off "cruising" it?

With only 2 weeks and young kids, I would suggest narrowing it down to one or two countries. What time of year will you be traveling? Do you have your budget set? That will help define the amount of expense in traveling to several countries by car, plane or train.

Are there specific things that your family has talked, and seems excited about doing..ie; seeing the forum in Rome, Pompeii etc

Give us some ideas that you all have been batting around so we can maybe get a sense of your tastes.

If you definitely want to see Italy and Portugal, you can't add two other countries in two weeks, since you will have fly to see both. In fact, I would suggest you either pick Portugal and Spain, or France and Italy.

Since your kids are school-aged, I assume you'll be traveling during vacation time, so you need to book. You can't just be "cruising" it with kids that small.

If you pick France and Italy, you might do well to rent an apartment and car in the French Riviera for one week, and an apartment in Italian Riviera for the other. In Italy, if you stay in a town like Lerici with a car, you can do day trips to Lucca, Pisa, the Cararra marble works, but also enjoy the beach and boat rides. (Others know more about the French Riviera than I do).

If you are splitting your time between Italy and Portugal, you can pick almost any spot in Italy for a week, but some small-kid-friendly suggestions are Venice, the Italian Riviera and Lago di Garda.

For that short a trip, stick to one place in one country. Make it an interesting place, involve the kids in researching it, have them learn a few words, watch with them the DVDs and videos from your local library, engage them in the preparation - when they get there, they'll be enthused rather than alienated.

Pick a spot from where you can reach the ocean, some countryside destinations, preferably mountains also - a variety of activities and - just as important - of playful inactivity.

For that, rent a house or an annex to a house, preferably with a pool, a place where you can have a home life with a kitchen and such, where you can eat breakfasts that are familiar to the kids, and where you can just be a family doing nothing once in a while. Hotels are no good for that kind of family living.

Search www.venere.com and others.

If you do all that, then it doesn't really matter which of the four countries you pick, but it will be a memorable experience, not one diluted by too many differences in culture and geography and languages in too short a time.

You can't really "do" four countries in two weeks -- four cities maybe, and they can be in four different countries if you don't mind a lot of intra-Europe travel.

Last time we were there for two weeks, we spent 3 days in Amsterdam, flew to Prague for 4 days, train to Berlin for 3 days and flew to Nice for 6 days in Juans Les Pins. It was a lot of fun, but as you can see, it's a lot of travel.

Don't forget to factor in travel days (at least one each way, plus traveling from, say, Lisbon to Rome - another half a day at least) plus a day to recover from jet lag.

I'd suggest you pick two countries at the most, and at that, no more than two cities/towns within each country. Are you interested in cities or small towns? Urban/rural/seaside?

The benefits of "cruising it" are, in my opinion, far outweighed by the difficulty of finding rooms on the fly for a family of 4. Not sure when you are traveling, but I highly recommend a set itinerary as far as which cities you will be staying the night, and then getting your rooms booked now. We have done a few nights on our many family trips without reservations. Overall the places I had pre-booked were MUCH nicer in terms of quality, quaintness, cost, etc. than the ones that we found while traveling without a reservation. It is also NOT a fun part of the trip to be dragging 4 people around while you search for a place to stay on any given day.

Having said that I LOVED traveling with my kids and did our first Europe trips when they were 9 & 11 - I think your kids will love it. As others have said though you also need to cut down on the number of places you want to see. We did 2 weeks in Italy and even then we traveled around quite a bit. Had one week in an agriturismo in Tuscany. Close enough to do daytrips to Florence, but there was a pool for a nice break from sightseeing in the afternoon. You could do two countries/cities if you NEED to see Italy & Portugal (assume you have family or friends or some reason that these 2 are top places?) - flying within Europe is good because yes, the cities are farily close - but you still deal with the same hassels that we deal with and it still takes quite a bit of your day to go to/from the airport.

Thank you ALL for your responses. I am feeling overwhelmed and not really knowing where to begin. To answer some of the questions posted...
we are planning on traveling in Sept or Oct 2009. We would like to see both cities and countryside, but have not yet decided which of the two would be best to stay. Would love your input!
Also, by "cruising" it. I meant, would it just be better to take a cruise where we can see all four countries - but not any one in depth -a big downside for us.
And, yes, Italy because that is my lifelong DREAM and Portugal because I have family there. However, if I needed to cut one out, it would be Portugal. We could just do two weeks in Italy.
So here are my questions, can anyone compare Europe by foot/car versus by cruise WITH kids?
Can you recommend a cruise line that is kid "friendly" but not a huge theme park on the water?
If we just stay in Italy, any suggestions of where to stay with kids that is central enough for us to visit Rome, Scily, Venice, Positano?
What would you rate the top FIVE must see in Italy for a family of four?
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

You need to get a map. In only 2 weeks you will be lucky to see 20% of Italy. I would pick 3 destinations in Italy and plan to see them well. Sicily is too far and demands 2 weeks by itself. Consider and apt. on the Amalfi coast---see www.summerinitaly.com

If you want to see "both cities and countryside" I don't know why you would want to take a cruise. I don't know many cruises that allow you to spend much time in the "countryside."

Go to Italy. Visit Rome, Florence and the Tuscan countryside. That will fill two weeks without running your family ragged. You could perhaps add some time in the Amalfi Coast and visit Pompeii.

Hi tt,

>So here are my questions, can anyone compare Europe by foot/car versus by cruise WITH kids? <

You can either visit Europe, or you can go on a cruise. They are totally different experiences.

> We could just do two weeks in Italy.

An excellent idea.

2 weeks is perfect for visiting Venice, Florence and Rome.

Start with "Destinations" on this forum.

Get some guide books.

Plan a draft itinerary.

We will help you improve it.

Enjoy your planning.

((I))

I really have to agree with Ira - start with Rome, Florence, Venice. Then add other places in Italy -- Riviera, Cinque Terre, Tuscan hill towns, Lakes, Pompeii, Amalfi Coast -- to fill out your vacation. I'd start with 4 days in Rome, 3 in Florence and 2 in Venice...

Wouldn't cruise ships dock mostly in larger harbor cities? You'd be less apt to see the true charm of the smaller towns. Also, if you wanted the kids to savor the "Euro-pean experience", wouldn't much of the time on a cruise be on the "Americanize" atmosphere of the boat?

Yes, the typical cruise is a pretty lousy way to experience other cultures or to visit anything on land except at the most superficial level.

BUT, depending on your kids and their interests, it might be the most enjoyable vacation for them.

What would you rate the top FIVE must see in Italy for a family of four?>

If you have enough time

1- Rome
2- Florence
3- Leaning Tower of Pisa (near Florence)
4- Venice
5- Pompeii

I hope we can help with your feeling overwhelmed.

Maybe it would help you if you stop thinking in terms of "doing" or "seeing" countries - you will not see a country in less than 6 months, not the kinds of countries you're talking about where there is something worthwhile every few miles.

Instead, start thinking about a place, a localized area, in one of the countries you mentioned. Like going to the wine country around Napa Valley in California instead of "going to the United States".

Have you looked at a dozen travel DVDs and taken notes of things and places that impressed you and your family members more than others? Then looked them up on a detailed map (one that doesn't make all of Europe look like it's no bigger than your neighborhood...)?

Have you taken stock of your priorities, and those of your family members? Who wants beaches? Who cares about historic buildings and will bother to read up on the history to understand the context so it doesn't all look like dilapidated ruins to you? Who likes driving in a foreign place? Who likes hiking? And so on.

When you have a better idea, the fog will lift and you can start planning.

It's no good to decide simply on the stock repertoire of Rome-Florence-Venice because everybody else goes there. If historic buildings and art museums are not high on that list you made, then pick a countryside location, in reach of seaside if that is a priority, and settle in for a vacation of gallivanting around in your own car, taking it as it comes, and making an occasional foray into a historic and art destination for those who are curious about that.

Just as a suggestion: In the south of France, in the Provence, there are pretty small towns with lots of character within easy driving distance of all the many famous targets like Avignon, the Pont du Gard, Nimes, the nature reserve of the Camargue, and much much more. You can rent a vacation home, they are called Gites (in the singular it is gite)..

Just to show you how it works: Go to this site: www.a-gites.com/en/ - then select for region "Provence Alps Riviera", for department Bouches-du-Rhone (13), accommodation gite, capacity 3 to 4, and see what comes up. Google each town on google-maps or www.viamichelin.com to find just where it is exactly.

Beaucaire is one such town, ideal for a stay for you - google Beaucaire gites and you get a whole bunch to choose from. If it looks like the site is only in French, click anyway, you'll understand half the words already and often there is a little flag (British or American) to switch to an English version.

Note that in French the word location means rental (not place as in English).

Tarascon is another great little town nearby - google Tarascon gites.

If Italy appeals more, try www.venere.com for holiday apartments or houses near, for example, Lucca (just to pick one from among hundreds) - a half hour from Pisa, an hour from Florence, a bit more to Siena, within reach of the sea, and so on. Lots of places to go visit, and a nice little town you'll grow to love while there.

Forget a cruise as in cruiseship - that shows you barely glimpses of too many different places, you come back with no memories of substance, and life on board tests the youngsters' patience real soon.

Hope this gets you going.

personally I would pick Italy. For our first trip to Europe with our children we went to Paris, Montreux, Florence and Rome. Flying into Paris and out of Rome. It was WAY too much moving and we had about 2 weeks as well. We were dead tired. My children were 10 and almost 14 at the time.While it seems like a lot of time and it is SO hard for some of us to think "I am finally here and want to take it ALL in" you really do end up short selling the experience imo.

We are going back in a few weeks and spending 10 nights in Paris in an apartment.

I would pick one or two areas, rent apartments for the week and day trip out from there.

A choice between a "family friendly" cruise ship and 2 weeks in Italy on your own - no contest - do it yourself! I can think of no good reason to do Italy by cruise ship as your first trip. So here are suggestions:

First, at the risk of raising the ire of many fodorites - get yourself the Rick Steve's Italy book. Yes, there are many drawbacks to Rick and his style of traveling but it is also a great "no-brainer" way to plan your own trip. It is at least a starting point with itineraries and easy to read info.

Second - don't worry about your kids in terms of thinking they will need lots of "typical" kid-type entertainment like movies, video games, other kids - the only reason I can think that you'd want a cruise ship. They will LOVE Italy - it is by far my family's favorite place and I think one of the most kid-friendly countries. They will see things that they've seen pictures of - the Colosseum, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Venice. They will exeperience familiar fabulous food (important when it comes to children). And you will have a great family memory.

So - to get more specific - here is the trip we took in 2000 with kids 9 & 11 - close enough to your kids ages and we could have easily done it when they were younger:

Nonstop flight to Rome - a very important part of my family trip planning process. I always look for the cheapest non-stop flight possible to a major city in the country I want to visit - I've also flown in/out of Milan & Pisa using this same criteria.

Rome - 2 nights (though I'd recommend 3)

Train to Venice then stay in Venice - 2 nights

p/u rental car, long drive to Lake Como (in hindsight I'd try to figure out the train)then stay in Lake Como (Varenna) - 2 nights

Long drive to Tuscany - we rented an apartment at an agriturismo about 1/2 hour outside Florence - stay in Tuscany 7 nights

Drive to Rome - last night in Rome before flying home - total 14 nights + 1 overnight flight.

Top things my kids liked in Italy:

Climbing to the top of St. Peter's cathedral, seeing the Colosseum, feeding pigeons in St. Marks square (do they still do that?), VENICE - everything about it, swimming at the agriturismo, visit to a small Tuscan winery (not a big "wine tasting", just a quick visit), the food, gelato (twice a day, every day), swimming, hiking, relaxing on Lake Como - very little actual sightseeing there.

Finally - a few general hints about traveling with kids:

Eat & Drink often - Eat 3 regular meals with snacks/drinks in between each one. I gave this advice to a friend who, on the first day, decided that since they had all had a much bigger breakfast than they usually eat at home, it wasn't really necessary to stop for lunch. BIG mistake - and she took my advice for the rest of the trip.

Get out early to avoid crowds then return to your room in the afternoon for rest, reading, music, down time. Do this on all non-travel days. You may even nap and then be ready to go out for the LATE dinners that Italians have.

Be sure to include non-city stops - I wouldn't do just the "big three" - Rome, Florence, Venice - with kids. You will all enjoy the break that comes with doing some more outdoor type activity whether it is beach, lake, walking, hiking, etc.

Know that you WILL come back, so don't try to do it all. You will enjoy yourself so much more if you don't think of what you might be missing. There is so much that is fabulous about Italy, so much we haven't seen yet and we've been 3 times now (twice with kids). But I don't regret anything we've seen so far and I love the thought of finding new things to do on our next trip.

Look for open jaws tickets, (fly into one city, out of another). That saves time backtracking. For Italy I like flying into Venice and out of Rome.

And consider apartments in places where you're staying 3 days or more; more space. European hotel rooms are small. A double has one bed or two twins. There are some family rooms for 4 (quad rooms), but they're relatively rare. Fortunately you have lots of time to plan.

I agree with the recommendation of Rick Steves' book. It will help you narrow down your choices and not feel so overwhelmed. And the family could watch his shows on PBS together (or get the DVDs from the library). Always good to get the kids excited about the trip.

I agree with the Rick Steves recommendations, too. Although I'm not a fan of his hotel choices, I think his sightseeing recommendations are spot-on. We would never have known, for example, that we could walk in the Alps (train to Wengen, lift to Mannlichen, walk to Kleine Schedigg, rail to Grindelwald) if it were not for one of his books. Nor would we have known how to do "just" the Sistine Chapel, when that was all we had time for - he gave a great tip in his book. And the DVDs will whet your appetite, and allow you to narrow down 1) which places "move" your family, and 2) what type of places you want to focus on - historical, art, seaside, hill towns, etc.

I also agree with the RS recommendation. His hotels and fast pace are not my choice BUT I love his DVD to get a taste of the area and you can watch them with your boys. I also like the routing often in his books - helping with trains etc. Good call.