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First time to Europe
My wife and I are planning our first trip to Europe for 14 days.
We would like to visit 4 counties, our itinerary is below: Paris, France - arriving Paris, France Paris, France Bruges, Belgium Bruges, Belgium Bruges, Belgium Amsterdam, Netherlands Amsterdam, Netherlands Cologne, Germany Cologne, Germany Colmar, France Colmar, France Colmar, France Paris, France Paris, France - leaving We tend to love the outdoors and the country side, but also enjoy museums, art, architecture, and food/drinks. Paris and Cologne are all about art, food, and architecture. We would like to keep a circuit that starts in Paris and leads back to Paris. Colmar will be our base camp into the Black Forest. Thought? Ideas? Feedback? Eurail the best option for this circuit? Eurail pass make sense? Bus (Flixbus) better? |
IMO, you have some problems with this plan. Four countries in 14 days means lots of time spent/lost moving around. Five destinations in 14 days doesn't give you as much time everywhere as you think.
If done by train, you'll have to figure out how to explore the Black Forest region from Colmar which isn't in the BF. If you drive, you should get a good idea of how many hours all of this entails. By one quick search, not considering any stops or sightseeing detours, you're looking at well over 20 hours of driving. Dropping the car in Colmar would save a couple of hours (compared to the train ride Colmar-Paris). If you did both train and car, you'd have to figure out car rental pick-up and drop-off points. If not in the same country, you face a large drop fee. If you dropped Colmar/BF, this trip would become much simpler. What time of year? Could you fly into Brussels or Amsterdam and out of Paris? |
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Eurail the best option for this circuit? Eurail pass make sense? Bus (Flixbus) better?[/QUOTE] I am in the process of planning my euro trip. Euro rail pass is really expensive and I don't think its worth it, but I've compared the costs. I used https://www.trainline.eu/ and I just look at price of tickets from that. You can only book 3 months in advance for train though. Bus can book now, but I have no interest in sitting on a bus for long hours. |
It generally saves money, not to mention, time, to fly into one city and out of another. Why do you want to do a circuit if you do not have to return a rental car?
For a lot of info on train travel in Europe, including the cheapest ways to buy tickets, see: https://www.seat61.com/index.html Suggest laying this out again, showing travel time, remembering that you have to pack, check out and travel to the station/airport at one end, and then reverse the process. This means that to get one full day somewhere, you need two nights. |
It's to me a strange itinerary for a first trip to Europe, and not terribly practical.
WHY do you want to "keep a circuit" flying RT to Paris, when it would be far more practical to buy open-jaw tickets? Why all those days/nights in Bruges? To me, it's worth an afternoon and evening, nothing more. There is far more to Belgium than one over-touristed canal town. Same is true for Colmar. IMO, it's a daytrip at best. Four countries in 14 days is a real stretch. Your time in Paris is pitifully short, considering you'll be jetlagged for the first day at the very least. No railpass is worth it. Learn how to buy cheap tickets in advance on the respective national railways. |
I might look to drop one of the outliers, either Amsterdam or Colmar, the obvious one for me is to drop Amsterdam and add in Strasbourg.
Any info on which month you are going? I'd play around with Rome2Rio to get a quick and dirty image of possible routes |
Yes no railpass for your itinerary and yes discounted tickets booked online yourself would be cheapest. Check www.seat61.com for more on doing that; general info trains BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.
a day less in Bruges and more in Amsterdam (architect-lovers delight) - Colmar not good base for Black Forest in Germany but great one for doing Alsace Wine Road. |
Why not fly into Paris, travel to Bruges and on to Amsterdam and fly home? Spend the majority of time in Paris and Amsterdam.
The outliers are Cologne and Colmar. You will spend a lot of travel time in your journey to those locations. If you need to see Cologne, travel there from Paris and then on to Bruges and then to Amsterdam. |
What Huggy says, Paris/Brugge/Amsterdam, with the most days in Paris and the least in Brugge.
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Bruges can be a lovely base for a day trip to Gent too - another neat historic old city that some like as much or more than Bruges. One day in Bruges itself is enough for most here it seems unless using it as a base - but yes Amsterdam needs more than 1.5 days to appreciate it.
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If you still want to keep all those destinations . . . then rearrange things so all your Paris days are together at the end. That would save an extra hotel change. Assuming you have already bought your flights in and out of Paris, immediately upon arrival take the train to Brussels/Bruges.
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And if not bought flights yes fly into say Paris and out of Amsterdam or Cologne/Frankfurt per present plans. Will save both money and time as well as hotel change by not having to double back to Paris.
And actually if you stick to your original itinerary then investigate the Benelux-Germany railpass which allows you to hop on virtually any train anytime in Belgium, Netherland, Luxembourg and Germany. You are doing several longer train trips and the pass lets you take any train almost anytime (Thalys trains about the only exception) - no need to pre-book though you can make optional seat reservations if wanted. Unlike Eurailpasses this pass also comes in 2nd class at a cheaper rate. Discounted tickets many do are train-specific and cannot be changed and to guarantee must be booked in stone weeks/months in advance so the pass if great for folks wanting any flexibility of taking any train anytime. |
The regular intercity trains between Belgium and the Netherlands now also require an advance booking; prices for last minute trips have gone up by as much as 70%.
I don't know how that impacts on rail passes. |
Scratch post above about Benelux-Germany Pass - brain malfunction thinking trains to and from Paris would be covered - they are not and thus that pass is not a good deal. Sorry.
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I guess I need to re-strategize.....limit it to 3 countries.
A couple static things: I have to fly into Paris (ticket booked and I have an agenda there). My wife and I want to enjoy the art, museums, food, and architecture, but we also want to enjoy quaint romantic landscapes. Based on everyone's feedback, I have one country too many - I originally wanted to visit 5..... So, knowing that I am coming into Paris and departing from Paris - what other 2 countries would you recommend? Is the Netherlands pretty? Should I focus on the western coast of France, Belgium, and the Netherlands? Cologne is there for no other reason than, I wanted to see Germany (some German culture), so I picked a city that was close to the French border and had some churches, museums, etc. that I thought we would like. In terms of actual activities, we would like to see/do the following: France Louvre Eiffel Tower Siene river Dinner cruise Notre-Dame Cathedral Sacré-Cœur Arc de Triomphe Musée d’Orsay I picked Belgium (Bruges) because it looked charming and romantic. Netherlands was there, and I always wanted to see Amsterdam, so it was an easy choice after Belgium. I do not have to go to either, but have a preference for Belgium. I chose Colmar, because I read some opinions that it was close enough to the Black Forest to be base camp for excursions and was lovely in its own right. So, in summary, the only thing I really have set is Paris and the activities I list in Paris. Outside of museums, famous sites, I would like some country landscape and trees. In terms of travel, I am open to renting cars, buses, trains, etc. |
Five of your 14 days are travel days. This, IMHO, is a very inefficient use of your trip time. I agree with the suggestion to fly open jaw...into Paris, out from Amsterdam:
ssander |
<<Siene river Dinner cruise>>
Unless you opt for one of the expensive dinner cruises like the ones Yachts de Paris offers, you're way better off just taking the cruise and dining on land. I agree that Paris, a few days in Belgium, and Amsterdam is plenty to keep you occupied in the time you have. |
The western coast of France makes no sense with Belgium and the Netherlands.
Is the Netherlands pretty? Define pretty, define where in the Netherlands (which is so much more than over-crowded, over-rated Amsterdam). I personally don't care much for Bruges which can also be incredibaly over-crowded, but I am in the minority. Stay in gent and do a trip to Bruges. You certainly don't need three days there You could, in theory, do a day trip to Cologne from Amsterdam easily enough, if you stay in Amsterdam longer than two days, which barely would scratch the surface of the place, never mind the rest of the country. The station in Cologne is right in the centre of the city. You don't say when you are making this trip, which could be a useful thing for us to know to offer further advice. |
Are you getting Colmar, France mixed up with Freiburg, Germany which would be a good base for the Black Forest not Colmar a long way away by train?
ssander has given a great plan. Cut Germany and do Paris-Bruges-Amsterdam with some day trips from Paris and Amsterdam perhaps. |
I guess I am in the minority, too, because Bruges just irritates me, even at night after the tourists have left. And while I understand that Amsterdam holds enormous appeal for most, I don't care if I ever set foot there again. OTOH it's a big, famous European city and I'm sure holds a lot of allure to people who've never been to The Netherlands before, and it certainly has some major attractions.
Yes, if you must see Cologne to say you've been in Germany, you can take the train there from Amsterdam. But I don't see the point. You could just as easily take the train from Paris to Strasbourg and have a fair hit of "German culture" there, albeit with an Alsatian flavor. |
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