tpolock

Well we are finally doing this!! This is my first post after a very long time lurking. I want to thank you all for not only helping me get ideas for my trip, but most importantly, the courage to plan my own trip. Me and my wife (late 40s), have been discussing going to Italy for well over several years. Our original plan was to go to Positano and Venice for our 5th anniversary for a romantic trip. Well, of course things never go to plan and our 5th anniversary has come and gone.

First, as I didn’t know where to begin, I found this site back a long time ago. We were looking at going with a tour group as neither of us really have any experience with international travel (and at the time, my wife had never flown before) and was looking for ideas. Boy, was I like a kid in a candy store. The more trip reports I read, the more places I wanted to go and visit. However, I have learned that it wasn’t possible to see it all on our first trip.

The more I read, the more I was learning that, hey, I think I can plan this trip myself. Of course, the wife was a little reluctant and we talked her sister and brother in-law (active/early 60s) to join us (strength in numbers she felt). Well, this could become a long story, but my wife’s oldest brother and his wife (active mid 60s) are also joining us. So there is a total of six of us. I have taken a lot of advice from you guys and trying to keep my itinerary simple and hope I can go back and visit again as there are so many places I want to visit.

So the first part was finding a time we could all get away from work. Next was finding 3 bedroom apartments and 3 bathrooms as I am taking 3 women that could be late for their own funerals and need these bathrooms. So I have booked our vacation around the apartments and we already have put deposits down for them.

I have some questions below, but first here is our itinerary.
We have 13 nights in Italy for Sept/Oct 2017. We have an overnight flight from US to Venice. Planning on landing early in Venice Sunday AM.
Venice 4 Nights (staying here https://www.vrbo.com/1227248ha# )
Florence 4 Nights (staying here https://www.vrbo.com/128031# )
Rome 5 Nights (staying here https://www.vrbo.com/6400223ha# )

In Venice, we are looking at doing two tours with Walks of Italy. St Marks after dark tour and the VIP Secret Passage tour.

In Florence, we want to do a day trip to Tuscany. Looking at Walks of Italy’s Tuscany day trip to Chianti, Siena and San Gimignano.

In Rome, we are looking at doing 3 tours with Walks of Italy (Pristine Sistine, VIP Colosseum and A Day tour to Pompeii and Positano). Of course I am going to try and get reservations for the Scavi Tour as well if possible.

Museums are not the highest priority (other than my one brother in-law), but do plan on seeing a few of them. We are interested in seeing the main sites, churches and enjoying the local culture.
1. Am I looking at doing too many tours? As anyone had any experience with Walks of Italy Tours?
2. We plan on not doing many expensive meals, but would like to have one really nice meal in each Venice, Florence and Rome. Looking at around 150 Euros per couple. Any recommendations?
3. For Wifi/Hotspot, I was looking at Glocalme. Anyone have experience with this or should I just look at getting a SIM card once I get to Italy?

Andrew

All three of these cities are extremely tourist-friendly. You can do as few or as many tours as you want, really. I am comfortable exploring places myself when I travel but often do a walking tour in a new city just to get my orientation.

I personally wouldn't book a lot of tours ahead of time, in case you wind up not liking them. Many walking tours don't require reservations - you can just show up or book last minute.

I have used T-Mobile in Europe a few times (free unlimited data) and has also bought my own SIM card a few times. If you want to buy your own SIM for your phone, know that in Italy you will need to show a passport when buying one. (In other countries, you can buy them at a convenience store like a pack of gum, much less formal.) Many people go with a TIM (name of company) SIM card - there are TIM stores just like there are Verizon and T-Mobile stores in the US, where the clerk might set up the SIM for you in your phone.

Just make sure the phone is unlocked.

FYI, you can use WiFi to download maps to your phone (e.g. Google Maps) ahead of time and still navigate (GPS) without any mobile internet data, though having mobile data means you can use Google Maps to guide you via bus and train as well as walking. I found Google Maps extremely helpful on my last trip to Europe to tell me which bus to take, how to walk there, etc. (Buses, trams, and subways work very well to get around in all of these cities - and the water bus vaporetto works about the same way in Venice.)

Kathie

Congratulations! You have done a fine job of planning your first trip. You have a reasonable amount of time in each city, and have chosen three locations fairly close to each other.

1. Are you doing too many tours? Everyone is different - for me that would be too many tours, but it might not be for you. I do recommend that you build in time for strolling/exploring. I have no personal experience with Walks of Italy, but many people here love them.

Mimar

And not everyone has to do the same thing at the same time. Allow for different interests and different energy levels. And different Circadian rhythms. I like to get a slow start in the morning whereas my husband likes to be up and out early. But then he fades in the early evening. We compromise -- mostly.

Do you plan to do any cooking in your apartments? We always buy breakfast stuff; that enables my slower start.

I didn't look up the locations of your apartments but the more central the better. Then it's easy to go back to your place, drop off any purchases, take a short siesta, etc.

Finally are you going to be group leader? That can be a thankless job. You've done a good job of researching. Is anybody else reading guidebooks and getting info about your destinations? Maybe spread around the responsibility, say one city per couple. That way they'd need to learn more about the trip.

tpolock

Thanks for the replies.

Andrew - Thanks for the feedback. I have AT&T and I will look at getting a SIM card at a TIM store. I know I need to make sure that my phone is unlocked before I go.

Kathie - Definitely planning in some strolling time. I have started a basic itinerary.

Day 1 (1/2 day) - Arrive
Day 2 - Open. Definitely want to see Rialto market
Day 3 - St. Marks After Dark Tour
Day 4 - VIP Doge's Palace Secret Passages Tour
Day 5 - Train to Florence
Day 6 - Tuscany Day Trip Tour
Day 7 - Open
Day 8 - Open
Day 9 - Train to Rome
Day 10 - Pristine Sistine Tour. Explore the area around the Vatican
Day 11 - VIP Colosseum underground tour. Explore around this area.
Day 12 - Day trip tour to Pompeii and Positano.
Day 13 - Open
Day 14 - Fly Home

Mimar - Yes we do plan on doing some cooking in the apartments. Yes, I guess I am the group leader. I do have a powerpoint presentation just outlining things to see and do. I also have a few tour books and dvd's that they have borrowed. My one brother/sister in-law have said they will just follow us. The older group I expect to go on their own more. They can spend hours in museums, which I can't.

annhig

tpolock - welcome. I think that you are doing a great job. you've managed to do what many fail to do on a relatively short trip which is not to try to see too many places.

You've also sorted out some day trips and tours which with a group like yours is probably the best way to make sure that there is a good balance of group activity and individual time.

Personally I wouldn't change a thing. Have a wonderful time.

bvlenci

I would consider this too many tours, but when traveling with six people there are certain advantages to a walking tour. Otherwise, you might end up with six different opinions about whether it's worth going to the Spanish Steps, or how long you should hang around Trevi Fountain, and no mechanism for deciding without bruising egos.

I wouldn't consider a tour that tried to include Pompeii and Positano in one day. Positano is really too far from Rome for a day tour, even if you were to spend the whole day on that alone. Pompeii is a reasonable day trip from Rome, but you can get there a lot quicker by train than by bus, so I would prefer not to take a tour from Rome. You could go to Pompeii on your own, and get a guide, or an audio guide, when you get there.

Andrew is right that often walking tours can be taken on the spur of the moment. There are some excellent private guides or tour services that tend to get booked up well in advance, though. Context Travel is one, with tours in most of the places you want to visit. In Rome, Daniela Hunt, of www.rome-tours.com is one of the best private guides. With six people, you may find the cost of a private guide to be affordable, and you would be able to make special requests. Daniela is excellent at tailoring a tour to your interests; her special area of expertise is ancient Rome.

It's a good idea to use either a private tour, or the Vatican's own early entry options, for the Vatican Museums, because the crowds inside during normal opening hours are close to unbearable. September and October are the two highest-occupancy months for hotels in Rome, so you can't count on it being "off season". The Vatican has an option called "Breakfast at the Vatican with early entry and an audio guide" which is very reasonably priced compared to most of the private tours. They also have, during the busiest months, a Friday night entry, which is the most reasonably-priced way to avoid crowds. This year (and most years in the past) the Friday night entries have been offered through the end of October. You can see all your options at mv.vatican.va .

To be honest, I think there are museums in Rome that most people, especially those who are not ardent art museums denizens, would enjoy more than the Vatican Museums. One is the Doria Pamphilj Gallery, which is enjoyable even to those who don't care for art at all. It's a sumptuous Renaissance palace, which is still owned, and partially inhabited, by descendants of the Doria Pamphilj family. The family's art collection, which includes several masterpieces (and some justifiably forgotten works) is displayed in the gallery, but the palace itself is worth the visit apart from the art. There is an excellent audio tour, narrated by a member of the family, which is included in the ticket price.

http://www.doriapamphilj.it/roma/en/

Traveling with a group of people can be very tricky. Last year, my husband and I took a trip to the US with old friends, and, although we managed to avoid any serious break in the friendship, by the end of the trip we didn't care if we ever saw them again, and I'm sure they felt the same way about us. Since then, all is back to normal, and we even look back on the trip with pleasure.

I have a good friend, though, who lost a life-long friendship over a trip they took together, and renting apartments is the main reason they nearly came to blows. All of the apartments had a "best bedroom" and a "worst bedroom", and neither of the pair was willing to take the worst one. This is one reason I chose to stay in hotels on the trip I took with our friends. At one of the places we stayed, they thought our room was better than theirs, but since I wasn't the one who had assigned the rooms, I just suggested they request a new room from the reception.

The Glocalme has a reasonable cost for data, but the device is very expensive to rent, $169 for 13 days. You could buy a cheap Android phone for much less than that, but you probably don't even need to do that if you have a recent model phone. Most modern phones can be unlocked for use abroad, and have the bands necessary to do so.

You can get a local SIM card for €10 from Vodafone or TIM. TIM has a particularly attractive plan for people who mostly need data, and they allow you to use it to create a hot-spot for your other phones and devices. The plan is called TIM for Visitors; it costs €20, plus €10 for the SIM card. In addition to 4 gb of highspeed data, it also gives you 100 minutes of phone calls, which can be used to make international calls, including calls to the US.

https://www.tim.it/tim-visitors-en

You can buy it before you leave home, but you have to go to a TIM store in Italy to pick up the SIM card, register it to one member of your party, and activate the plan. In order to register a SIM card, you need to take your passport to the store. Security laws require that it be photocopied.

ducinaltum

What a wonderful itinerary you've put together- I applaud you for all the research you've put in and for taking the plunge into international travel. And what a great time to share with family too. "Like a kid in a candy store" - isn't that the truth! I have so many places I want to visit and this forum certainly doesn't make that list shorter

As for Walks of Italy, I haven't done one with them but I hear good things. These are small tours (12-ish people) so if you're not certain how much the group will like as many tours as you have listed, you could book in advance only the ones on which you all place the highest priority. It'd be a shame if they booked up and it was something your group was really looking forward to (there are other providers of various tours of course but it'd be more research - Context Travel is another). September is a busy time in Rome so there is a chance they could fill up, especially since you need 6 spaces if everyone goes.

I think Mimar's comment that everyone doesn't have to do the same thing the whole time is spot on. Splitting off every once in a while and seeing separate places that interest certain members of your party is a nice break - and then you can reconnect for dinner and hear all about each others' adventures.

There's no shortage of great places to eat in Rome (where I have the most experience with dining out). For what it's worth, here are the restaurants I've mentioned elsewhere that I've liked the most in Rome in your neighborhood that would easily fit the budget of 150 euros/couple for a multi-course meal with wine/water:

- Il Falchetto, Matricianella, Al Duello - all are just north of your apartment and were slightly elegant but not stuffy and we didn't feel the need to be in the finest of clothes. Not jeans & t-shirt places, but "at minimum wear some nice pants/skirt and a dress shirt and you'll be just fine" kinds of places. You can google their websites for the menu to see if any are up your alley.
- a couple minutes walk to the east from your apartment (
Via Santa Maria del Pianto, 9a/11) is a place I love called Beppe e i suoi formaggi. You could and dine in at the restaurant or if you're looking to bring some cheeses and other delicious things back to your apartment (or on a picnic) this would be a great stop. Cheese all the live long day!

bvlenci

I see that Fodor's doesn't recognize the Vatican link, maybe because it starts with mv instead of www. Let's see if this works:

http://mv.vatican.va

If not, just type mv.vatican.va into your browser address box.

PalenQ

As for trains book early on www.trenitalia.com and score nifty discounted tickets -in either class. They are train-specific and cannot be changed however and as sold in limited numbers must be booked in stone weeks ahead of time to guarantee.

Fine for most people and you can pick out your own seats so you all are together (or apart!) as want- You can always buy tickets once there but then you pay full-fare-anyways for lots of great info on Italian trains check www.seat61.com - superb info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

And Fodorites like bvlenci who posts about are Italian train experts in case problems arise booking your own tickets at www.trenitalia.com.

greg

I would comment on this one:

>>> We plan on not doing many expensive meals, but would like to have one really nice meal in each Venice, Florence and Rome. Looking at around 150 Euros per couple. Any recommendations?

This budget is high end for Italy. One restaurant in this range I had meal recently was at La Loggia restaurant at Villa San Michele in Fiesole, uphill from Florence. It was especially refreshing to be there at this tranquil restaurant after spending a day in the madness of Florence overflowing with selfie stick toting tourists following flag waving tour guides.

You can have many excellent meals in Italy at half this budget with excellent wine choices.

In the U.S., we do cook often at accommodations with kitchens. But I don't do that in France or Italy where food is one of the reason for the visits.

tpolock

annhig - Thanks!

bvlenci - Wow. You gave me a lot of information for me to digest. I will definitely look into Daniela Hunt. I have read some on the breakfast and/or Friday evening at the Vatican.

Great information on the Vodafone. Definitely looking into this.

Yup, the one good bedroom thing is what I am worried the most about. I don't know (if I plan it all, do I get to choose). I am thinking to keep peace, to just let one couple (there is 3) each choose the best bedroom for each city so we all will get at least one "best bedroom"

ducinaltum - Thanks for the restaurant suggestions. How long out should I make reservations?

tpolock

PalenQ - Thanks for the train information. Definitely one of the posters I have read a lot of your information. I do plan on getting my train tickets early. I think I have it figured out. Once I get closer, I may have make another post. It makes a big difference in cost getting them early.

greg - I will definitely check out that restaurant. We may end up doing more meals out. I was looking at: seeing sites/exploring v a few hours eating sit down meals.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback. It is appreciated!

bvlenci

Tpolock, I mentioned both Vodafone and TIM as reliable phone companies. However, if you want to use the phone as a wifi hotspot, you should choose TIM, because they have twice as much data (4 gb) as Vodafone (2 gb) (but fewer talk minutes (100 minutes for TIM versus 300 minutes for Vodafone). Creating hotspots for six people could eat up a lot of data, so you should set some ground rules: use wifi whenever possible, and try to get apartments with good wifi. Turn off all automatic updates. Turn data off when you're not using it.

KTtravel

This sounds like a great trip! I think you've done a terrific job with planning.

Your apartments look very nice. I think your best bedroom idea is a good one. You could start with picking straws amongst the 3 couples for the first location, between the 2 "losing" couples at the next location and, by default, the remaining couple gets the best bedroom at the third location. This might help in case one location's nicest bedroom is much better than the best at the others. Perhaps the other couples will be nice and insist on you having the best, since you've done all the planning, but I wouldn't count on it.

I, too, would encourage you all to split off from each other some of the time unless everyone is always enjoying group togetherness. You might even choose to dine separately some of the time and meet after dinner at your apartments to share your adventures over a bottle of vino.

Have a great trip!

bvlenci

We went on holiday this year with my adult children, and I rented three-bedroom cottages. However, I was paying for all the lodging, so no one complained.

Boolanger

Let me chime in and support the recommendation to split off from the group on occasion. Not just for sanity but it also makes you immerse yourself in the culture better. You are more likely to actually use a few words you will learn (Please, Thank You, Hello, Good bye, Where are the bathrooms, etc.).

Let me pass on a few things I told my daughter on her first trip to Europe:

1) Always acknowledge a person (people) when you enter a room (store, restaurant) by saying hello (Buongiorno or Ciao).

2) If you want to eat at a fancy restaurant but want to save money, go for lunch. Will have less choices but the food will still be fantastic and much less expensive.

3) Ask for the house wine (glass or carafe) instead of a bottle of wine. Much cheaper (sometimes free for lunch) and always good.

4) Go get lost on purpose with some free time. A great time to find a Gelateria and try some crazy good gelato flavors (like lavender, white peach and fig combinations).

5) Stop and smell the roses and experience La Dolce Vita.

6) Never, ever say: "Well, back home/in America we don't do things that way".

Leely2

For me that would be too many (way too many) tours, but maybe not for your group? In any case, I think it's tour overkill in Rome, and I would not go to Pompeii & Positano from Rome. <i>Maybe</i> to Pompeii, but not to both. There's a lot to do in Rome itself and closer to it, so I'd play around with that piece more.

bvlenci provides great ideas here. Also check O'Reilly's current thread about her upcoming visit to Rome.

I was in Rome again this summer with family, some of whom had never visited before. We went to the Vatican museums on the Friday evening aperitivi-in-piazza visit, and while still crowded, my sister and her family found it quite enjoyable. And I did too, even though I have been several times before in less crowded seasons.

Upscale-ish in Rome: I always enjoy Antico Arco for a modern take on Roman classics and great wine--this is away from the center (taxi).

For something different in Florence, not upscale, Gesto was great.

tpolock

KTtravel - That might be the best way to insure no hard feelings in regards to the best room.

Boolanger - Thanks for the great tips. We will definitely take some "us" time separate from the group.

Leely2 - I will check out O'Reilly's thread. Also thanks for the restaurant suggestions.

The main reason for Positano trip was it is the place that started the itch to try international travel. I know the whole saying to plan going back to Italy again, but I just wanted to atleast see it, just in case. Walks of Italy had a tour that last 13 hours and takes you to Pompeii as well. I know I may have to just give this one up. It's the tour that I most torn about. I will have to put some thought into this one.

ducinaltum

tpolock,

The only time I ever made a reservation in my previous half dozen trips to Rome was this past February when it was 12 of us for my birthday - only because it was a sizable group. So if it's just you as a couple, you could be flexible and just show up to get a table or at most call the day before. There are so many restaurants that even during a busy month like September, I can't imagine you'd have to wait too long - and if you do, there's always a nice stroll and some scenery to see (at least, that's my way).

If it's a Friday or Saturday you're planning for at a nicer restaurant, perhaps call a day or two ahead. Some people like having the plans while others people feel locked in so I'd say whatever you feel comfortable with. I always keep a list of recommendations in the area I'm staying in on my phone so that I would theoretically be able to call an audible and go elsewhere if option one fell through (though this has never happened).

If you're going to eat early (for Italy) around 7pm, you very well may be the only people, or among the few, in the restaurant.

Oh and the one restaurant of note in Florence that I visited in February is Osteria dell'Olio, one block away from the Duomo. The antipasto of grilled eggplant with cheese, Florentine steak, and the molten chocolate cake were supremely enjoyable. The thought of that eggplant dish makes my mouth water to this day.