First Time Europe Trip
 

Hello everyone!

I am planning a trip to Europe with my girlfriend. We are both in our early to mid 20's and have never been to Europe before. We plan on being there for 28 days from mid October until mid November. I have come up with a temporary itinerary and wanted to know what everyone thought. Like I said, neither of us have been to Europe and want to experience it to the fullest! We want to visit historical sites, we're both big on trying the local cuisine and beers, and learning more about the culture, and enjoy outdoor activities. With those in mind, I would greatly appreciate any input on which sites to see while we're abroad.

Dublin: 4 nights
London: 4 nights
Paris: 4 nights
Luxembourg: 2 nights
Cologne: 2 nights
Prague: 3 nights
Berlin: 4 nights
Amsterdam: 4 nights

I am also intrigued by Brussels. Does anyone think adding it to the list is too many places? Or do I already have too many stops? Please be honest as this is just a tentative itinerary. Thank you all!

You need to work how you are going to get between cities eg plane , train and calculate how much travel time that eats into your days and also put them in some sort of order eg you can go by train fron London to Paris, then to Brussels if you want to add that then Amsterdam- all by train
Depending where you are coming from you can either fly into London or Dublin .

As others have said, you have to optimize transport and bring your destinations in a more logical order. If you do this you will see that Luxembourg is a bit out of the way and, honestly, I would suggest to skip it, especially if you want to go to Brussels which is halfway betwenn Paris and Amsterdam. I would not consider Luxembourg a number-one-destination in Europe.

You will read here that many Fodorites do not like Brussels too much, but it has a spectacular medieval market, a healthy old town and some art nouveau buildings. A day (or even half a day) or an evening would be enough.

Otherwise, you have a selection of fine cities and I would not know what to cut from the itinerary.

A logical order would be:

Dublin - flight to London
London - train to Paris (2:26)
Paris - train to Brussels (1:41)
Brussels - train to Amsterdam (1:50)
Amsterdam - train to Cologne (2:43)
Cologne - train to Berlin (4:18)
Berlin - train to Prague (4:28)

If you take either morning or evening trains you will have at least half days either at the city of departure or of arrival and you will not lose too much time for travelling.

Be aware that mid-October to mid-November is a nasty season in Europe: expect rain, fog, low temperatures and days becoming shorter. I am afraid there will not be outdoor activities in this time of year.

But you will see historical architecture, museums, cozy cafés and restaurants and enjoy your first trip to Europe.

Get a good, big, paper map of Europe and some pins. Spread it out on a big table and put the pins in the places you want to visit. That will give you a good visual of your best route. Then get on the internet and calculate the distances between each place. Then check out the flight possibilities between places that are distant from each other using something like Skyscanner.com. Then get familiar with the national railroads of each country and check on schedules and prices for point-to-point tickets on trains between cities (do this at least 3 months out from the dates of travel - but checking now will give you a good idea of times and prices). Then do the math - how long will it take you to wake up in X city and land at your accommodation in Y city. Add it all up - the times and the prices - and you'll have a plan.

Sometimes planning travel the old-fashioned way is the best way.

I would not call mid-October to November "nasty." It was absolutely beautiful here in France last October and November (and December and January).

Plan to purchase open-jaw tickets (into one destination and out of another), so you don't have to spend time and money backtracking.

StCirq, this year the winter was absolutely unusual - we have never experienced such a warm and sunny winter before and do not count in having it again. And you live in the south of France while OP concentrates on more northern parts of Europe. He should better pack sweaters and rainjackets to be prepared.

You don't say where you are from so we're not sure what weather you're used to. At that time of year the weather in those countries will be similar to that in the northern US: some sunny days, some rain with temps that may be moderate, cool or chilly - so not heavy winter clothes but definitely fall outerwear and shoes you can wear rain or shine. And a sturdy folding umbrella. Outdoor activities may be limited - although you can always hike or bike.

Day are definitely getting shorter and in some places sights will be open fewer hours than they would in the summer. Also in allocating days look to see which one museums are closed (varies by country)

A lot of sound advice above.
It would be a pity just to cross Belgium on your way from Paris to Amsterdam, and not to experience it. Brussels is very much love it or hate it, but a few days in Gent would be nice. It's very close to Brussels and Brugge, which can easily be done by very frequent trains.
Get yourself acquainted with the pan-European railway planner of the German railways www.bahn.de/p_en/view/index.shtml. At present it doesn't offer the autumn schedules, but it gives you a pretty accurate idea of the railway connections. When your trip gets a more definitive form, advance buying of the tickets gives you a considerable discount (often more than 50%). Those should be made with the relevant national companies.
Enjoy your planning!

Good points, traveller. This is the first winter we've lived in Europe.

Cities are not equal. Your division of time fails to account for this.

I'd consider dropping Dublin, adding to London, Paris and Prague (if you're set on getting there) and configuring accordingly.

Thank you everyone for all the helpful information! I am currently living in South Dakota so the cold and wet don't bother me. Traveller1959, thank you for your help. I have been trying to figure out the best route to take for my trip since there are many options. I know I will be flying out of a different city then I landed in to save time from backtracking. Does anyone else have any thoughts on Luxembourg or Brussels? StCirq, thank you for your help as well. I like the idea of planning the old fashioned way.

Can anyone tell me how the hostels are in the cities I mentioned? I plan on staying in a few to save some money. Also, what is the best way of touring these cities (on our own, guided walking/bus tour, etc.)?

There's no one answer to those kinds of questions. Some people prefer to make their own city tours, some join a group, some use a self-guided walking map, some do hop on hop off bus tours or canal/boat rides. It's whatever you want.

As to your initial itinerary, I would cross off at least two stops (whichever ones interest you least or are the most out of the way geographically) to give a little more time in each place. "2 days" really don't work because by the time you get there and the time you leave you're barely got 1 day in reality.

Hi
Good advice up to now ;-)
I d definitely drop Luxembourg spend a day on the in Bxl for Paris to Amsterdam
Stop in Bxl midi put luggage in locker (on the way from the thalys train) take another train to Bxl central. (5 min) start there.
reduce time in koeln and Prague and add in Berlin.
Hotels are cheap in Berlin and Prague seems to me exp in London and you can find easily around 100 120 in Paris.
Weather in mid oct through mid November is usually bad in Belgium and same in Parus an Koeln. Usually rainy windy and cold.
That is around 5 C and often freezing in the night. This year was more like 15c and not that rainy.

Thank you for the suggestions Whathello. I'm curious, why drop Luxembourg? From all the pictures I've seen it is a beautiful city.

It is excentered and pale in comparison with the other cities. Not that much to see - one lovely view from outside sums it for me - so
I don't like it at all but these are my tastes - hope somebody gives additional info of you should look more :-)

One thing to think about, whether or not you want to take any kind of city tour is, think about your time and what you might want to see. A tour will get you into places that otherwise might be crowded or have long lines. You can see more without getting lost and wasting time trying to find places. Getting lost is wonderful when you have the time, but can be a waste when you only have a few days to do things before moving on.

I think one advantage of traveling in the fall is site won't be so crowded. I was in Paris, my last trip, the week before Thanksgiving, and we had no wait or trouble getting into any of the sites we wanted to see.

Anyway, you'll figure out how you want to do it.

Do not reco bus tours in city. They usually just put glass between you and the sights/people and are least common denominator. If you find walking tours that you find interesting they are much better. We did an architectural tour of old town Prague with a grad student from the university and it was fascinating and cost only $5. The city hall there has info on a bunch of walking tours as well as all cultural opportunities.

I would just be careful not to give short shrift to London. It is several times larger than the other cities and has way more major sights - IMHO 5 days (6 nights) there is just scratching the surface.

That is all amazing advice and definitely gives me more to think about. Thank you to everyone who gave their advice!

So as for places to stay, would anyone recommend staying in a hostel? Are they safe in the European cities I want to visit?

"Thank you for the suggestions Whathello. I'm curious, why drop Luxembourg? From all the pictures I've seen it is a beautiful city"

It may be beautiful, but there's a sameness to it. Sort of like dating each of the quintuplets; wouldn't you want some variety (I had a roommate in college whose girlfriend was a dead ringer for his mother, so eh didn't like variety).

Budapest?

Good analogy tomboy. Any other advice or personal accounts of the places on my trip would be greatly appreciated!

Why drop Luxembourg?

First, without Luxembourg, you will have an easy itinerary with rather short trips between the destinations. Including Luxembourg would require a time-consuming zig-zagged route.

Second, there is not much to see and to do in Luxembourg, at least compared to other European cities.

A few word about Belgian cities. Brussels would be directly on your way from Paris to Amsterdam, so it would be a very convenient stop. The Grand Market is one the most beautiful medieval city squares in Europe and around it, your find some nice areas to walk. Also a lively bar and restaurant scene, including several art nouveau bars. Even if you have only the afternoon and the evening, you will enjoy the city.

Brugge is also quite easy accessible by train. This is a picture-postcard historical town with medieval architecture, museums and a lot of water. Also doable, but would require a bit more time on the trains. Paris-Brugge 2:49 with 1 change of trains, Brugge-Amsterdam 2:45 with 2 changes.

Ghent has a big castle and it also very picturesque, but for a first-time trip to Europe, I would favour Brugge. Or Brussels for accessibility when taking the train from Paris to Amsterdam. Paris-Ghent 2:13 with 1 change, Ghent-Amsterdam 2:16 with 1 change.

I too would drop Luxembourg. In the context of a first trip to Europe, it's not a city that floats my boat. I guess I'd also question Cologne. It's just not that compelling for a first trip.

My son is about your age. The cities he loves are Dublin, London, Paris, and Amsterdam (as do I). Berlin gets rave reviews from younger people. I'm going there for the first time in September, so have no first hand knowledge. Those 5 seem like good selections.

If I took the days from Luxembourg and Cologne, I might suggest getting a cheap flight and heading south. Barcelona or Rome might be two suggestions. That might improve your chance of good weather in late November. And you can fly open jaw (into Dublin or London, home from Barcelona or Rome). If you are at all budget sensitive, I might suggest you drop from Prague to Budapest and finish the trip there. I lived there for 2 years. My kids all loved it. It's a great city for someone of your age.

My kids are quite spread in age. When my eldest did his Europe thing in his 20s, he tended to travel by train. My daughter last summer tended to fly discounted airlines. You may be able to cover quite a bit of ground if you use inexpensive flights vs. train travel. I rarely take long haul trains as flying is almost always cheaper.

I won't comment on time. At your age, 3 or 4 days in a city is actually quite slow (I'm old, I like to sit a spell). Many on this forum will disagree with that advice. Personally, I think you are moving at a good pace for your age. If this were my trip, I would remove Lux and Cologne, I'd carve it into another spot.

Lastly (then I'll shut up, I promise). Dublin is very well served by RyanAir. You might want to start in London, fly to Dublin.. and then fly from Dublin to your next city (just don't fly RyanAir into Paris).

Have a wonderful trip.

Julie is right. We all are turning into old timers here but when younger I would cram much more.

Another, "don't bother with Luxembourg" when there is so much more to see and enjoy.
And Cologne except for a quick visit IF it is en route. I'd add to Paris for sure.
And if Ireland is really a big desire, do it. If not, add to some of the other places--you'll save a little money on transportation costs.
If you take some places out and add anything, I think Munich is a worthy stop.

I have to defend Cologne.

Cologne has layers of history, dating from Roman times. And it is a lively, vibrant city with lots of things to see and to do.

I have taken numerous international guest from USA, Australia, Japan, Brasil and other countries to Cologne, and each of them - without any exception - was fascinated.

Cologne appears to have a not-so-good reputation among Americans, but this is mainly the effect of American guidebooks which tend to neglect the Northern half of Germany totally. You may call it prejudice. Or ignorance. Whatever, here the reasons why you should visit Cologne:

- The Cathedral (Dom). It is one of the few gothic cathedrals that had been completed (including two spires). It is one of the largest and one of the most beautiful ones. It has priceless works of art inside and the shrine of the Three Magi. The Treasury is one of the best at all. The Cathedral is UNESCO World Heritage since 1996.

- 12 (twelve) romanesque churches which are even older than the cathedral.

- The Romano-Germanic Museum with outstanding archeology from Germanic and Roman times, including mosaics, a huge burial monument, jewellery and the finest glassworks of Roman times in the world.

- The ruins of the Roman Palace in the cellar of the medieval City Hall. These ruins include a 200-meter-long, 2,000-year-old sewer which is walkable.

- Remnants of a Jewish Mikwe in front of the City Hall.

- World-Class art museums, one for medieval art and one for modern art.

- Around a dozen microbreweries, producing a light local beer (called "Kölsch") and serving local fare.

- A rich cultural scene.

- A chocolate museum that includes a working chocolate factory that produces small pieces of chocolate which are given to the visitors as souvenirs.

- A riverfront with a park, beer gardens, bars and restaurants in historical houses.

- In addition to history, you will see some bright modern architecture which will fascinate you, too (especially near the chocolate museum).

Ryan--I posted on your other thread, but take a look at the Circus Hostel in Berlin. Our kids are your ages and just stayed there recently and loved it. There is a microbrewery on site as well.

Ryan-when in Prague, try Krusovice beer. It is somewhat of a premium beer in the eyes of Czechs. Oh, so good. A mug of it is like eating a steak dinner. Tastiest beer I've ever had. Pronounced Kroos-o-vee-chee.

I would recommend any of the YHA properties. We used several around the UK (not in London, unfortunately) and we've always been impressed with the rooms and the overall quality of their hostels.
www.yha.org.uk

Lee Ann

Traveller1959 and JulieEC, I want to thank you for your thought out responses to the questions I had. I greatly appreciate you sharing your advice and experiences

Tomboy, as someone who loves to try new beers I will definitely take your suggestion and try Krusovice.

Everyone else who commented, I appreciate all you had to say. Your advice will definitely help me plan my trip.

Even though it is 8 months away, I am already getting very excited based on all your responses!

As far as the local cuisine in the places on my itinerary, which foods would you say I would have to try?

In Paris, eat anything and everything.

In Prague, I'm going beer and pork knuckle.

You are very welcome. I envy your trip.