First Family trip to Europe - where should I start to plan?
May 22nd, 2009, 02:38 PM
#21
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For two weeks, you could always do the classic 1 week London, 1 week Paris. This is an easy trip to plan (fly into London, eurostar to Paris, fly home from Paris) and really gives a good overview of each fantastic city. You can rent apartments in each place and will have enough time to do day trips from each city.
Good luck, planning is fun too!
Good luck, planning is fun too!
May 22nd, 2009, 02:39 PM
#22
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great post Ann! I have only two trips to compare so nothing like yours but how much more we all enjoyed staying in Paris for 10 nights as opposed to the packing, moving, we did on our first adventure! (Paris, Montruex, Florence, Rome)
I do echo the thoughts of the kids being fried by Venice, Florence, Rome.... and the more you have (and you have 4 children and a spouse you are traveling with) the more tiring the entire moving is... just you and your dear wife? Different story imo. But please do not under estimate how draining the actual travel part will be for at least one of your four children.
I do echo the thoughts of the kids being fried by Venice, Florence, Rome.... and the more you have (and you have 4 children and a spouse you are traveling with) the more tiring the entire moving is... just you and your dear wife? Different story imo. But please do not under estimate how draining the actual travel part will be for at least one of your four children.
May 22nd, 2009, 02:48 PM
#23
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I would like to echo the advice of many of the others; minimize the number of times you have to pack up and move. Those are the real stress points when traveling with kids, IME. The sheer hectic, and frantic STRAIN of getting self, spouse, and kids ORGANIZED to get to the train/plane/bus on TIME makes for unhappy parents and cranky kids. WE traveled with four young ones, and I know of what I speak.
Remember, each time you pack up and move you use up the better part of a day. Pick a central location, and do day trips from there. An apartment is ideal for this, as you have a comfortable place to come back to in the evening and relax.
Another way to avoid moving too much, and also avoid backtracking, is to plan your air travel as an open jaw flight, i.e., fly into Paris, and back from Rome, for example.
I'm sure your family will have a great time and, as you plan, keep coming back to us here. We all have been there, and are pleased to help.
Remember, each time you pack up and move you use up the better part of a day. Pick a central location, and do day trips from there. An apartment is ideal for this, as you have a comfortable place to come back to in the evening and relax.
Another way to avoid moving too much, and also avoid backtracking, is to plan your air travel as an open jaw flight, i.e., fly into Paris, and back from Rome, for example.
I'm sure your family will have a great time and, as you plan, keep coming back to us here. We all have been there, and are pleased to help.
May 22nd, 2009, 03:29 PM
#24
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A travel agent is not the answer for you. In europe they will want to either sell youa packaged tour - or want to do a very upscale trip - or charge you a lot for their services (and probably not get you what you want).
With 6 people and only 2 weeks you want to limit yourself to 3 destinations (not 3 countries but 3 places - either 3 cities or 2 cities and one rural area). Any more than that and you will spend way too much time in transit versus seeing doing anything.
I would start by the whole family looking at tour books - the pictures - to see what places are your "must sees". You will then have to negotiate to come down to 3 places and can then do in-depth work on those - and come back here with specific questions. We typically like to spend time in a couple of different culture - for instance Italy and Switzerland or France an Germany in order to get different flavors. If you want to do both England and Ireland you will be limited to only one other location. Perhaps Paris?
I don;t see where you say how old the kids are - and that makes a big difference. If they are tweens/teens you can do a more intense trip. If any of them are younger you 'll have to do a slower pace so they can spend some time being kids - instead of being dragged all over hell and gone very day.
Our first trip with my stepdaughters - 11 and 14 - we did 2 weeks in London and Paris - with 2 day trips from each - and that was prefect for us. Very busy and occupied - but not frantic - and with some relaxing times built into each city.
With 6 people and only 2 weeks you want to limit yourself to 3 destinations (not 3 countries but 3 places - either 3 cities or 2 cities and one rural area). Any more than that and you will spend way too much time in transit versus seeing doing anything.
I would start by the whole family looking at tour books - the pictures - to see what places are your "must sees". You will then have to negotiate to come down to 3 places and can then do in-depth work on those - and come back here with specific questions. We typically like to spend time in a couple of different culture - for instance Italy and Switzerland or France an Germany in order to get different flavors. If you want to do both England and Ireland you will be limited to only one other location. Perhaps Paris?
I don;t see where you say how old the kids are - and that makes a big difference. If they are tweens/teens you can do a more intense trip. If any of them are younger you 'll have to do a slower pace so they can spend some time being kids - instead of being dragged all over hell and gone very day.
Our first trip with my stepdaughters - 11 and 14 - we did 2 weeks in London and Paris - with 2 day trips from each - and that was prefect for us. Very busy and occupied - but not frantic - and with some relaxing times built into each city.
May 22nd, 2009, 03:30 PM
#25
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Sorry - if your kids are really into outdoor stuff I would reco that one of your destination give the chance for some outdoor activities - either Swiss Alps or Lake Kontanz or something - so they get somethings they really enjoy in,.
May 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
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I agree---with 6 you really need to simplify logistics and stay in 3 places---with a large vehicle that will not break the bank. That means start and end in Munich and include these detinations:
The Salzkammergit area of Austria. Near Salzburg and includes the wonderful Austrian lakes--right out of Sound of Music. I would stay in St. Gilgen and day trip from there. Family apts are easy to find.
Lake Garda area of Italy. Stay at north end and day trip into Verona and the Dolomites--fabulous scenery and lake life.
The castle country of Bavaria. Explore the castles and mountains of south Bavaria.
That is all a tight loop with easy logistics and is my favorie FIRST trip to Europe for a family.
The Salzkammergit area of Austria. Near Salzburg and includes the wonderful Austrian lakes--right out of Sound of Music. I would stay in St. Gilgen and day trip from there. Family apts are easy to find.
Lake Garda area of Italy. Stay at north end and day trip into Verona and the Dolomites--fabulous scenery and lake life.
The castle country of Bavaria. Explore the castles and mountains of south Bavaria.
That is all a tight loop with easy logistics and is my favorie FIRST trip to Europe for a family.
May 22nd, 2009, 06:09 PM
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This will be an experience for your family that you will never regret. It is good that you are starting to plan for the trip a year in advance. Several people have recommended beginning your research with guidebooks. I agree. Either buy or borrow four or five such books. A $150-$160 investment in guidebooks now can save you thousands of dollars and, possibly, a lot of grief later. Rick Steve' "Europe Through The Backdoor" is especially good for your first trip abroad. But don't depend on his or any other guides alone. The Fodors and Frommers guides also provide much useful information on individual countries and cities, and each provides a different perspective, which is always good. The National Geographic and DK Eyewitness Travel guides are less helpful on the ground, but they have great pictures, which may help you define your travel destinations a little better. Also continue to explore the Web sites for information. I agree with the other responses that, with four kids of any age group, it is best to choose one or two bases of operation and take day trips from there. Besides, for your children's sake, it is better to immerse themselves in a culture than trying to cover too much territory in one trip.
May 22nd, 2009, 08:21 PM
#29
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I haven't read all of the responses but enough to know that I agree with limiting yourself to two or three places and considering apartments. I think London makes a very nice first stop as there are many non-stop flights there for less $ than some other countries and the language barrier isn't overwhelming for first time travelers. Am I correct that this is the first trip abroad for you and your wife? From London you can take the train to Paris or take an inexpensive flight to another destination.
So, I would ask yourselves which destinations are your top priorities and save the other places for another special time.
Happy planning!
So, I would ask yourselves which destinations are your top priorities and save the other places for another special time.
Happy planning!
May 22nd, 2009, 09:19 PM
#30
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I would suggest that before you go to a bookstore, you visit your local library. They can be great resources, especially at this early stage where you're deciding where in Europe to go. At this stage, also, the guidebooks with pictures can be the most helpful.
If you'll be travelling during the hottest, busiest part of the summer (July/August), then consider cooler destinations, such as UK & Ireland or Austria/Germany or Switzerland (especially the mountains).
If your kids are really interested in other cultures, then consider whether the UK and Ireland will be different enough. Interestingly enough, on our first trip to Europe with our then-10yo son, we started in London, because he LOVES anything English, and I thought it would be more familiar. We then moved on to the Loire Valley, then ended in Paris. The use of English in London, and the greater familiarity, didn't matter to him at all. He was just as comfortable in France as he was in London.
In planning what to do, consider what you've enjoyed on family trips in the U.S. For example, do you spend all your time in the National Parks, or in big cities, or a combination. Plan what you do in Europe using that same pattern.
In terms of planning, your flights (and definitely do open jaws) will be your first decision; obviously, you need to decide at least your beginning and ending points to do that. I don't know that you need to book flights one year out. The only time we booked flights that far out (using FF miles), our plans ended up changing a bit, but we were stuck with the departure and arrival cities we'd begun with.
Next step would be booking hotels (or apartments) in big cities; they tend to get booked sooner. Maybe 6-8 months out. Lodging in more rural locations, you don't have to book so early. Everything else, you can wait until a month or two before the trip - ground (train or car rental), any museum reservations, etc.
Enjoy!
If you'll be travelling during the hottest, busiest part of the summer (July/August), then consider cooler destinations, such as UK & Ireland or Austria/Germany or Switzerland (especially the mountains).
If your kids are really interested in other cultures, then consider whether the UK and Ireland will be different enough. Interestingly enough, on our first trip to Europe with our then-10yo son, we started in London, because he LOVES anything English, and I thought it would be more familiar. We then moved on to the Loire Valley, then ended in Paris. The use of English in London, and the greater familiarity, didn't matter to him at all. He was just as comfortable in France as he was in London.
In planning what to do, consider what you've enjoyed on family trips in the U.S. For example, do you spend all your time in the National Parks, or in big cities, or a combination. Plan what you do in Europe using that same pattern.
In terms of planning, your flights (and definitely do open jaws) will be your first decision; obviously, you need to decide at least your beginning and ending points to do that. I don't know that you need to book flights one year out. The only time we booked flights that far out (using FF miles), our plans ended up changing a bit, but we were stuck with the departure and arrival cities we'd begun with.
Next step would be booking hotels (or apartments) in big cities; they tend to get booked sooner. Maybe 6-8 months out. Lodging in more rural locations, you don't have to book so early. Everything else, you can wait until a month or two before the trip - ground (train or car rental), any museum reservations, etc.
Enjoy!
May 23rd, 2009, 10:12 AM
#31
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Wow, I'm very impressed with both the quantity and quality of responses here. This afternoon, I'm off to the Library and bookstore.
So far, I think Paris is almost certainly on the list, with one, maybe two other stops. All 4 of our kids are very good travelers, we make 2 or 3 driving trips each year that involve 600+ miles of driving each way, 8-10 hours in the car. While I would hate to burn that much of our trip in transit, I'm still leaning towards a 3 destination trip, open-jaw, with train travel between destinations. But, I still have a lot of research to do.
thanks again for all the helpful advice!
So far, I think Paris is almost certainly on the list, with one, maybe two other stops. All 4 of our kids are very good travelers, we make 2 or 3 driving trips each year that involve 600+ miles of driving each way, 8-10 hours in the car. While I would hate to burn that much of our trip in transit, I'm still leaning towards a 3 destination trip, open-jaw, with train travel between destinations. But, I still have a lot of research to do.
thanks again for all the helpful advice!
May 23rd, 2009, 10:13 AM
#32
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Another way to get started is to investigate flights from your home airport. Any non-stops to Europe? A non-stop is always preferable. If you live on the East Coast, you'll probably have lots of options. You might want to look for a morning departure to lessen jetlag. (It's easier to adjust if you're not exhausted from not sleeping on an overnight flight.)
How do you plan to get around? Trains are best city-to-city. There are cheap flights but sometimes getting to and from far distant airports is time-consuming. In Germany you'd probably want a car, but Switzerland has superb public transportation.
How do you plan to get around? Trains are best city-to-city. There are cheap flights but sometimes getting to and from far distant airports is time-consuming. In Germany you'd probably want a car, but Switzerland has superb public transportation.
May 23rd, 2009, 11:24 AM
#33
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Mimar - I cannot echo enough of how important a non-stop is if at all possible.
Our first trip to Europe was Lax - DFW- Paris...seems simple enough.Nope. Left LAX late - had enough time for the connection but they gave our seats away (same airline- same ticket)- we ended up flying from DFW - to SANTIAGO Chile after I begged, pleaded, asked for supervisors - traveling with four people the only flight they could offer us was 4 days away! (AA airlines) I begged to go to JFK, Miami - any other city with a large market going to Paris. I asked to just get me TO Europe - Zurich, LHR, anyplace over the pond. The best they did was put me on a flight to Santigo Chile, and we were there for 8 hours - and then onto Paris. We were SO jetlagged and wipped out - we left Orange County on a Thursday am and got to Paris on Sat late afternoon...Unusual tale? You betcha...but a true tale non-the-less.
You state your children are good travelers. That is awesome. But please do not under estimate the impact of jetlag on everyone. Being a good car traveler is very different. It helps that you have more hours of daylight in the summer. I found it harder jet lag wise in the winter when we just went for some reason... Sunlight I guess helps
Where are you flying from? For us on the west coast it is 11 hours direct to Paris.
We took a direct flight over Christmas and it was a breeze... (seriously!)
I think you are fine with
Our first trip to Europe was Lax - DFW- Paris...seems simple enough.Nope. Left LAX late - had enough time for the connection but they gave our seats away (same airline- same ticket)- we ended up flying from DFW - to SANTIAGO Chile after I begged, pleaded, asked for supervisors - traveling with four people the only flight they could offer us was 4 days away! (AA airlines) I begged to go to JFK, Miami - any other city with a large market going to Paris. I asked to just get me TO Europe - Zurich, LHR, anyplace over the pond. The best they did was put me on a flight to Santigo Chile, and we were there for 8 hours - and then onto Paris. We were SO jetlagged and wipped out - we left Orange County on a Thursday am and got to Paris on Sat late afternoon...Unusual tale? You betcha...but a true tale non-the-less.
You state your children are good travelers. That is awesome. But please do not under estimate the impact of jetlag on everyone. Being a good car traveler is very different. It helps that you have more hours of daylight in the summer. I found it harder jet lag wise in the winter when we just went for some reason... Sunlight I guess helps
Where are you flying from? For us on the west coast it is 11 hours direct to Paris.
We took a direct flight over Christmas and it was a breeze... (seriously!)
I think you are fine with
May 23rd, 2009, 12:56 PM
#35
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Bob - they sure do! We had 6 persons traveling with us to Paris in December/Jan and for a variety of reasons stayed in Paris (Versailles was the only venture outside the city) one of the reasons was the cost of the tickets. We were going to go to London one day (and night) but the cost of the train tickets made us think twice (and dd ended up sick anyway).
May 23rd, 2009, 12:57 PM
#36
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Griz - another thought - please pack light. If you are staying in once place it is not as big of a deal but we packed too much for the four of us when we went in the summer of 07 and getting on and off the trains was not fun. I am sure we were amusing to many 
- But over packing can be common for first time visits to Europe... not second times for me! LOL
- But over packing can be common for first time visits to Europe... not second times for me! LOL
May 23rd, 2009, 01:53 PM
#37
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That is why I suggested if an apartment with a washer at least is rented the amount of clothing needed for the trip would be a lot less which always makes for a better trip. Otherwise if staying in hotels it is worth the money to me to have a laundry place wash and dry and fold the laundered clothes, anything to cut down on the amount of clothes needed. My criteria is a week worth of clothes is enough be it two weeks or two months. And when I say a week worth of clothes I don't mean two outfits a day.
May 23rd, 2009, 01:57 PM
#38
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regarding the pack light tip, I couldn't agree more. I've been spending some time at the Rick Steves website, it has inspired me to shoot for a single carryon per person.
We live in Boise, ID. So, not much chance for a non-stop flight. But, we might fly into PDX, SFO, etc... the night before in order to catch the actual flight. Those are the type of things we'll need to plan. But, based on our experience with a trip to Disney World earlier this year (fog delays here at home, missed connecting flights, etc...) I will not leave that up to chance this time
We live in Boise, ID. So, not much chance for a non-stop flight. But, we might fly into PDX, SFO, etc... the night before in order to catch the actual flight. Those are the type of things we'll need to plan. But, based on our experience with a trip to Disney World earlier this year (fog delays here at home, missed connecting flights, etc...) I will not leave that up to chance this time
May 23rd, 2009, 03:12 PM
#39
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sounds great Griz! It will be a wonderful adventure for your entire family. As much as I cannot believe we had to fly to Chile to get to Paris from LA - it makes for a great story and the girls sure to get a kick out of telling it still - so even the mishaps can make for fun memories.
May 23rd, 2009, 03:16 PM
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LoveItaly - we found a fluff and fold in Florence and it was well worth whatever money we paid... I do not recall it being too expensive. But because of how long it takes to wash/dry clothing in Italy with the washers in the apartments it just was not worth it - even with the washer/dryer. It was good for undies but not some of the other items... well worth it!
