First family trip to Europe
 

Hello, I'm in the beginning stages of planning a family trip to Europe. I'll be traveling w/ my wife and two daughters (4yo and 2yo), none of us have ever been to Europe. I am anticipating a slow pace and a lot of patience that will be involved traveling with such young kids, but we would like to attempt it before they are in school.

We are considering flying into Rome, spending 4 nts in Rome, train to Florence, 3 nts in Florence, train to Venice, 2 nts in Venice, fly from Venice to Salzburg, 3 nts in Salzburg, and finish up with 3 nts in Vienna, flying home from Vienna.

My 3 main questions: Is this itinerary much too ambitious for a first European trip/trip with young children? Also, are these cities appropriate for first time travelers abroad (we have the flexibility to add up to two days to any part of this trip)? And lastly, should we attempt to book everything ourselves or deal with a travel agency? My wife has wanted to visit Vienna the entire time I've known her, hence that leg of the trip. Any advice on the trip would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ambitious but doable. Just know to expect cranky, unreasonable, jet--lagged kids.

There's no reason to not book the trip yourself.

It is an itinerary for adults. The kids will not enjoy the trip. And they will definitly not enjoy all the train trips and flights.

We aware that it is more adult oriented. Since we have been to Disney World the past few years, we wanted to attempt something different this time around. What would you suggest as a more kid friendly European itinerary?

Forgot to mention we are thinking of going in February, since we are used to the cold and are hoping for lighter crowds in the more touristy areas.

<i>What would you suggest as a more kid friendly European itinerary?</i>

Honestly, for a two year old and a four year old, I wouldn't bother at all. It would be wasted money. Wait until they are old enough to understand or leave them with relatives.

Personally, I would wait until your children are at least a few years older. They will get much more out of the trip and be easier travelers then.

The trip you propose is not a slow paced one. It is a pretty fast pace for adults, let alone children. You lose a good half day traveling between locations which diminishes your time greatly for sightseeing. Going in February will mean it will be difficult for you to find places for your children to run and play as it will be quite cold outside.

If you still want to attempt this, I would wait until at least spring for better weather and limit your itinerary to two or three locations spending longer times at each.

I guess that's what I was afraid of hearing but I appreciate the helpful honesty. We might either scale the trip back or postpone altogether.

Based on my grandchildren the same age, I think it's doable if you take it easy during the day and be sure to hit regular nap and meal times. Take some activities for the train rides (books, coloring books, card games, etc.) and always carry snacks and water. Our 4 year old always pulls her own rolling suitcase (a small one just for toys and books and a change of clothes). The two year old can do it short distances but a small backpack works better for him. BTW, they travel internationally a lot because their father is European.

Amazon: Skip Hop Zoo Little Kid Luggage Good size for a small child to pull; great to have on the plane as well.

I think Florence and Venice are difficult for children the age of your children. I suggest you go to Rome and Vienna, book an apartment in each place, and enjoy each city. You probably will need help finding the right Roman neighborhood with a kid-friendly piazza, and being realistic about what sights you can see with children that small, but Italy is a lot of fun for people with kids if you set out to enjoy being in Italy rather than sightsee the mobbed tourist sights.

If you can't face being in Rome and not seeing the Vatican museums and other mega-mobbed-tourist attractions, then go to Italy and pick a quiet town where you can experience the fun without the pressure of sightseeing. Someplace like Lucca or Verona would be nice with kids, and you can take a bus or train into Florence and Pisa to do a bit of sightseeing some days, or Venice from Verona.

(By the way, for what it's worth, I live in Italy and host many friends who come through with small children, including toddler's and infants, and I see many tourists toting small children around, in papoose type carriers and some pushing strollers. Of course the kids don't know where they are, but the adults are having a nice experience of travel. You can find a lot of information online about traveling with small children in Europe. Many people do it successfully.)

I agree that it's a rather 'adult' itinerary, but in February I'm not sure what other truly kid-oriented things you could do. There are the performances at the Spanish Riding School in Vienna, but tickets are very expensive.

FWIW, my younger sister remembers almost nothing of a family trip we took when she was 6 y.o.

Unless you're considering apartments, you should start looking for quad hotel rooms in your budget range that are in your preferred locations in each city.

I am a father of twins and I lively recall how it was when we were travelling with them when they were 2 to 4.

I perfectly understand that you are fed up with Disneyland visits and you want to do something for yourselves.

How can it work?

Firstly, I would not go to Europe in February, even if you are used to coldness. It is not fun travelling with little ones in winter: gloves, hats, scarves, boots - oh boy, you are done when you have got them dressed!

Better go when it is warmer.

Secondly, do not change accomodation too often - it is hassle without kids and a desaster with kids. We used to stay at leat for one week in one place - usually a well-equipped vacation rental with dishwayer, washing machine and dryer.

My recommendation would be: Rent a vacation home for a week in Provence and another one for another week on the Côte d'Azur. Then do daytrips to attractions at your own pace - both in Provence and at the Côte there are tons of attractions - Roman ruins, medievals towns, scenic drives, art museums - whatever you expect from Europe!

Save all the cities for a later trip.

BTW, a last remark. Many Americans here on this forum seem to think that the main attractions in Europe are cities and most itineraries are focused on cities. For us Europeans, our main attractions are scattered across the countries and when we vacation, we usually stay on the countryside, with an occasional daytrip into a city. This travelling style is much more family-friendly (and budget-friendly) than city trips (which we do on business trips).

Yes consider going in warmer weather and consider renting an RV and camping - camps are the ultimate family friendly places and many European families will be in camps - children's play areas, always a swimming pool in any good camp in warmer climes and then do day trips from the camp.

Even large cities have camps on the periphery - take public transit into town - Vienna has a nice one as do most large cities IME of camping with a young child - much better for kidos than an isolated hotel - always lots of kids to play with.

Now if you want to take trains be sure IMO to go first class where there oft IME are quite a few empty seats for kids to spread out on and many trains have family compartments and even play areas - anyway for loads of great info on trains - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

But consider camping with a nice RV - camps are well equipped with nice showers - often better IME than many hotels, have laundries, stores and some kind of bar/restaurant/snack bar.

I missed the post where you said you are going in February.

I certainly wouldn't go camping in February, not even in an RV.

If you decide to go at a warmer time of year, fine. But if you stick to February, consider Spain as half the trip. Your wife wants to go to Vienna, which could be quite cold in February, so you'd need to dress everybody very warmly.

I'm not sure you need to postpone the trip until the kids are past being toddlers and in school, but you might wait for winter to pass. Spring is very nice in Europe, and not terribly crowded so long as you don't pick Easter. Start in a warm country and then head up to Vienna. (I don't think the horse show in Vienna is appropriate for toddlers, but the Haus der Musik might be fun.) But as long as your kids are not energetic stair climbers or have the patience for museums, I would skip Florence and Venice.

I certainly wouldn't go camping in February, not even in an RV.>

Of course not - camps are empty then - I said if you go in warmer weather and especially in summer when Europeans are on holiday and flock to these camps - forget all notions of camping - these are rather luxury camps (and not cheap either) - but no only in summer will you get the family aspect with kiddos that age all over the playgrounds, etc.

Sorry I missed your qualifier -- but I will also add I really don't see the point of spending huge amounts of money to fly a family to Europe to go camping just so the toddlers can toddle around a campground.

There are loads of blogs and trip reports on the internet about people traveling with toddlers to places like Rome and Vienna. Vienna is filled with parks, even a huge amusement park. And cake! Italians love toddlers. And most toddlers love pasta.

Yes, you can easily book it yourselves. But I think this is too fast with 2 little ones since yo don;t seem to have left time for them just to go to a local park and run around every day.

Remember that 3 nights in a city is only 2 days. And it will take at least 1/2 a day each time you change cities.

So I would lay this out day by day indicating where you will wake up, what travel you will do that day and where you will sleep. Once you do this I think you will see how little time you really have in each place.

Also remember that many sights close one day a week - and you don;t want that to be the one full day you have in each place.

IMHO with 2 little ones less is more and I would do 3 places in 2 weeks - or at most 4 places - but certainly not 5. Remember you are changing languages, cultures, transit systems, have to learn the geography of each city and find places for your kids to play near your lodgings.

You can do this better than any travel agent - but it will be a substantial amount of work.

I would look at bahn.de to get an idea for travel times/schedules and then come back here to get more in-depth info. And be sure to consult the kids sights in each city. I would assume each day one major adult sight and then something for the kids - park or carousel etc. Plus you need to allow for time for snacks and perhaps naps.

I appreciate all these responses, very helpful feedback. That's funny you mention Spain because that was an alternative trip we were considering, any particular area in Spain as a top option? We've discussed Barcelona in the past.

Although it doesn't compare to an overseas trip, our kids are excellent travelers for their age and have enjoyed our many trips in the US and Canada that didn't have specific kid attractions. We are well accustomed to using strollers or papoose packs so the kids can doze off whenever they want. It's easy to please at this stage when our 3yo considers every building over 50ft tall a castle.

Another reason we are considering February is because of our time off from our jobs, we can only go in February or July/August and the cost in July was exponentially higher, and we have heard from friends that it can get intense in big cities between the crowds and heat.

That being said, we are still in the early stages of considering and planning this trip so we are still trying to gather as much info as possible before booking anything.

I agree that we are attempting too much with that initial itinerary. From your responses and other research, I'd like to scale the trip back to 2-3 main destinations.

I won't comment on Barcelona with kids because I am not personally a fan of the city period. But I will say that were I headed to Spain in February I would to go Andalucia in hopes of catching warmer, drier weather. I would also find Andalucia more exotic than Barcelona were I coming from San Francisco. I might also consider Valencia in February, because I think it's the height of the orange season.

<i>Although it doesn't compare to an overseas trip, our kids are excellent travelers for their age and have enjoyed our many trips in the US and Canada that didn't have specific kid attractions. </i>

Your kids are 2 and 4. A cardboard box will entertain them for hours if not days. I only get about 10-15 min enjoyment from a cardboard box. :(

I also would like to add that if you choose your spots wisely, going to Europe in July doesn't need to be hot or crowded, although it is likely to be more expensive -- but even there, you can find ways to make it work. In many ways, it would be easier to travel with the kids in summer because you can enjoy the parks and other outdoor activities much more readily. For adults in February, there are museums and other indoor venues, but kids need to be able to run around.

You can have a great experience of Europe in July, with moderate temps, fascinating but uncrowded places, kid-friendly activities, and you can find ways to economize to keep the costs down.

If it must be February (which is the coldest month of the year) I strongly advise to go to one of these regions:

- Andalucia.
- Greece.
- Côte d'Azur.

Andalucia is full of attractions. You find magnificent historical cities with great cathedrals, impressive oriental palaces, museums, archeological sites etc.: Granada, Cordoba, Sevilla, Malaga and more. You also find beautiful "white towns" like Vejer or Ronda. You find scenery: snow-capped mountains, canyons, orange groves, coastline. You have wine and sherry in Jerez, historic ports in Cadiz and Sanlucar de Barrameda - and you find sandy beaches where the children can play for an hour or two (don't forget them). If you think, Andalucia is not enough you can combine it with Toledo and Madrid. Madrid will be cold in February, but it is the capital (and has, in my view, much more to offer than Barcelona which will be dreadful in February).

Also, Spain is inexpensive, especially in February.

Even less expensive is Greece. The southern tips of Peloponnes, Rhodes, Crete will be nice and sunny in February with seawater that will be even warm enough for swimming. And you have all these wonderful archeological sites, medieval castles, Byzantine monasteries, picturesque villages, fresh seafood - and everything will be dirt-cheap.

Although farther north, the Côte d'Azur has a special microclimate, so expect springlike temperatures there. You will find most beautiful scenery, incredibly scenic coastal roads, rugged mountains, picturesque villages, a huge density of modern art museums, excellent food and also some large sandboxes for the kids. However, the Côte is pricey compared to Andalucia and Greece, but you may find good deals in February. Lots of vacation homes to rent. Can easily be combined with Italy.

I have selected these three regions because of their climate and because they have enough to offer to satisfy your hunger for attractions. There are regions in Europe which might be even milder but have not enough to offer (Baleares, Canary Islands).

You might also look at the Algarve in Feb

I never listened to the naysayers about taking young children on overseas trips. Mine were with me in Europe at least a couple of times a year, every year, from the time they were born. You just have to make the trip about THEIR needs, not yours, and it's not that hard.

I'd focus on Andalucia or Greece or the Algarve or maybe the Côte d'Azur, as mentioned by others. It does get old spending lots of time bundling and unbundling toddlers in cold and inclement weather. I'd pick two destinations, rent a place - apartment or small house - and settle in, rather than keep moving. Find places near a park or somewhere the kids can run around. It could be a perfectly lovely vacation for both you and the kids.

You hit the nail on the head, StCirq.

traveller1959 said it kind of perfectly. I think it sounds like a great timeline but it might be hard on kids changing their lodgings and traveling almost every other day. Rome and Florence looked very kid friendly since I saw plenty of families enjoying themselves there. I understand the need to go when you have time and it is way cheaper at that time of year so it's what I would do. November wasn't so bad so maybe February isn't much worse.

Oh what fun to plan travel in Europe...with two small children. Already Fodorites have discussed weather concerns and the children. (PalenQ, traveler1959, StCirq). We had our hands full so many years ago just camping and traveling throughout the U. S. with three kids. So a major concern is indeed what you can do to entertain them. I like the idea of not being on the move too much, i.e. limiting your own desires for sightseeing.

Yes, maybe Andalucia or Greece in winter. But of course gale winds will sweep across France sometime.