mhuggins

My Husband and I and our 2 children (6 and 10) are planning a trip to Europe in December 2017 - first time for all of us and it's a big flight from Australia! We are only able to travel for 3 weeks (8th till 30th of Dec). We are trying to fit our wish list into this trip but it may not be doable which is London, Paris, Rome and Amsterdam. We are looking for itinerary advice on visiting London, Paris, Amsterdam and Rome in 3 weeks, flying in and out of London Heathrow? If not, what would be your best advice for An itinerary for our first trip to Europe and best ways to get to/from each city? Thank you for your help!! Any tips and tricks to keep costs down would be greatly appreciated. We love exploring and learning new things. We are very open to suggestions.

Michael

An open jaw ticket might make more sense, especially if return flights to Australia leave in the morning (I don't know), because that means the price of a flight for four to London from wherever you are in Europe, an overnight for 4 in London, and then travel again to the airport if you did not find accommodations close to the airport. So if an open jaw ticket is only a couple hundred collars more, it is worth the savings in money, not to speak of the time.

marvelousmouse

I think I'd add Venice. Maybe do London, Paris, Venice, and Rome. I haven't been to Amsterdam, but I saw the other four and Venice would be a lot of fun with kids- and it's an easy trip to Rome.

You need to allot more time for Rome because London and Paris have great transit and are easier to get around. Rome takes a lot more energy.

Maybe also consider a Christmas Market? Vienna/Strasbourg/Nuremberg? I loved the Christmas markets. Food stalls, people in costume, carrolers, decorations, very kid friendly (some had specific kid attractions, almost like an outdoor carnival).

marvelousmouse

And I agree with Michael than open jaw would make more sense. Especially given the time of year- you may want to allow a little more space between flights in case of delays, which could cost you a whole day elsewhere if you've got to fly home from Heathrow. But I would understand if it isn't possible- it's considerably cheaper for me to fly into Gatwick then Rome.

Maybe something like
5 nights London
5 nights Paris
3 nights Christmas market
2 nights Venice
6 nights Rome

Or swap out Venice and Christmas market for Amsterdam. Or skip Rome in favor of Christmas markets and Amsterdam. It would save on travel time and there is so much to see in Italy that I almost think that should be another trip.

janisj

>>You need to allot more time for Rome because London and Paris have great transit and are easier to get around. Rome takes a lot more energy.<<

But London is MUCH larger.

Have you already booked your flights? If so you are stuck returning to LHR for your flight home. If that's the case, I'd fly on to the farthest point immediately after landing at LHR. Say arrive at LHR, fly on to say Rome about 4 hours later, stay in Rome about 5 days, then fly to Amsterdam for maybe 3 or 4 days, then train to Paris for 5+ days, and finish w/ train to London for the final week.

BUT the problem with that is all London public transport and all attractions close down on Christmas Day.

Otherwise -- if you do London on the front end, you will have to travel back to LHR the evening before your flight out.


•••• If you haven't yet booked your flights, then do open jaw in to London and home from which ever city you want to visit last ••••

massimop

As you fine tune your itinerary, whether you decide to fly or use trains in Europe between your destinations, be sure to bank in some "flex" time around your actual inter-Europe travel days to work around possible weather delays.

Also, imemdiately around the holidays you will experience very crowded, overworked transporation systems. Suggest arranging the trip so that you have regular access to washing/drying machines so that you are able to pack very light, never checking luggage. Renting apartments where possible (not France) will not only keep costs down (and be a great asset with kids) but will give you give you access to at least washing machines (if not dryers in Italy).

Personally I think Amsterdam is great fun for kids the ages of yours, and would pick it over Venice -- but be aware the effective daylight there (and in London) will tend toward darkness during those ever-shortening December days.

I like your original itinerary and personally think Christmas markets are the pits (they are shopping venues mainly) but up to you.

massimop

By "darkness" in Amsterdam and London I mean that the slant of light on this round earth -- when it is not overcast in the north -- can make days feel shortened even if offical charts of "hours of daylight" show only a minimal difference with more southerly locations. Paris is quite far north, but it's not called the "City of Light" for nothing. There's a lot of public lighting and sparkling window displays to make up for the absence of strong sunlight in December.

mjs

I also agree that an open jaw would save time and maybe money. Like the idea of the Christmas markets in Germany or Austria or someplace like Strasbourg. Not Paris or London. I too would pick Venice over Amsterdam.

Scootoir

It looks like you have 20 days on the ground and will lose precious touring time whenever you change cities and hotels. With that in mind you might eliminate Italy this trip unless you can fly into Rome and home from London (or vice versa). If you have already booked flights and must travel through London that makes Italy a bit more challenging. I love the Christmas markets and have visited 3 times; Nuremburg and Strasbourg were my favorites. You could take the train from Paris to Strasbourg or Lille before heading to Amsterdam. Both have notable markets.

Research what will be open on Dec. 24, 25 & even the 26 then choose where you will stay for Christmas.

bvlenci

If you can't get an open-jaw (multi-city) air ticket, I would start in the north and work your way south.

A lot of the flights from Europe to Australia leave in the evening, so you may not have to fly back to London the day before your departure. I would allow lots of time between flights, though, because connections are not guaranteed if you buy tickets on separate itineraries.

I think three weeks (21 nights) are plenty for seeing the things you want to see. It's true that these big cities have tons of things to see, but a great many of these things are of interest only to adults, and you're traveling with young children. I would focus mostly on things that would interest them, with maybe one thing each day that's mostly of interest to grownups.

I wouldn't add the Christmas markets unless that's something you've always wanted to see. I've been to Christmas markets twice, in Austria and in the Italian Sudtirol (or Alto Adige, the German-speaking part of Italy). It's not something that appeals to everyone, and I doubt that a small child would find them fascinating. It's mostly candles, wooden Christmas ornaments, candles, mulled wine, and more candles. Also every one I've visited (and there were several on both trips) had a heavy odor of chemical cinnamon, which I found oppressive. There are various winter parks and activities in London that would be more fun for the children, including ice skating at the Tower of London, and a Christmas wonderland in Hyde Park.

I suggest spending 5 nights in London. Then you could take the Eurostar train or a flight to get to Amsterdam. Four nights should be enough for Amsterdam, and I suggest at least one day trip to one of the charming towns nearby, maybe Haarlem. The Netherlands is an hour ahead of London, which means it's darker in the morning. When I worked there, I found it very difficult to get into gear in the morning.

Then I would spend 5 nights in Paris, with maybe one day trip. This would leave you seven nights for Italy. You could fly into Venice from Paris, spend two nights there, then one night in Florence, and four nights for Rome (three if you fly back to London the day before).

In all of these places, you'll have to be very selective about what you want to see. You won't have to worry about crowds in December, unless your trip extends past Christmas. Rome does not shut down for Christmas the way London does, although transportation is scarce on Christmas day.

Here's a good place to look for inter-Europe one-way flights on budget airlines:

www.skyscanner.net

If you haven't bought your tickets yet, buying multi-city tickets (into London and home from Rome) probably wouldn't cost much more than the round-trip tickets to London, when you add the cost of a flight back to London. And it would save you a considerable amount of precious time.

mhuggins

Thank you all for your advice.

We currently have our flights from Australia arriving in London on the 9th of December(these were already booked). We were thinking either 1 night here as we get in at 4.30pm, or fly straight to the next place. We liked the idea of heading straight down to Paris for 3 or 4 nights, up to Brussels for 1 or 2 nights and on to Amsterdam for a couple of nights. We were now considering adding Germany???

I really wanted to visit Rome but people suggested this was not a great idea, time wise.

We need to make it back to London on the 23rd of December for a week there before flying back home on the 30th.

We have the two of us and two children (6,10) who have travelled a fair amount and are use to long flights.

We are thinking the train looks the best option to see more of the country that we would miss if we flew, and it seems quicker. Should we buy passes or are single tickets better?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for your time.

Envierges

Rome at Christmas is magic. Sunny, dry, chilly enough to make moving around easy. Seeing that you're starting in London, I'd spend some time there to get over jet lag. I'd leave out Brussels and Amsterdam because of the grey dark wet. Go to Paris where there's a lot to do in good or bad weather and then on to Rome. Venice is up to you. Usually at that time of year it's damp and chilly.

northie

I've flown Melbourne , London , Rome in one hit so you could do that . To me it seems a waste to spend one night in London and then fly off again the next day . You could fly to Rome then follow janisjs suggestions

misstravelbug

I would cross the channel on the train that afternoon and start in Paris. Or get on a plane to be where you want to go. I would not travel to that many places. For 3 weeks I would choose 3 places, or 4 at the most.

We travel with children from Australian also, make sure you have a few days where you are relaxed with your schedules in the beginning.

WoinParis

Trains work great in Europe
Buy your tickets for London paris via Eurostar as far in advance as possible (at least 3 months)
Buy paris Bruxelles (if you travel on a wed evening you'll see me) via Thalys (3months in advance) same company for BRUXELLES Amsterdam.
Still Thalys for Koeln or Aachen or via deutsche bah' for the ICE trains.
French TGV are reserved via SNCF or -? Keep forgetting as SNCF us not user friendly for overseas tourists.

I would also limit myself to the north. Plenty on your plate with London BRUXELLES Amsterdam paris and why not say Aachen (they have a nice Xmas market - I am not a fan but it is nice).

You can add a few day trips like Chartres from Paris Bath from London etc. Aachen as a day trip from Bruxelles.

Have fun !

mhuggins

Thank you very much for this advice everyone

fuzzbucket

The best advice for train travel is to investigate this website, which explains European train travel for you:
www.seat61.com/Europe-train-travel.htm

You should make every effort to pack as lightly as possible, because there often is not much storage space in the luggage racks on trains, and if you have to walk to a hotel or apartment, it might be difficult, especially in bad weather.
There are small luggage racks above your seats, but it's wise not to leave gadgets or phones inside your small luggage or on the tray tables unless you're using them.

Apartments in Paris are illegal, you can't drop your luggage if you arrive before the apartment is ready, and for only a few days, I'd book a hotel.
London has legal apartments - you should look on the London Forum for recommendations.