None of my comments had anything at all to do with stamina . . . they were about hours in the day, how long transit takes, what is possible in 3 'days' (actually 2.5) in a city when factoring in travel time, crowds, and squeezing in day trip and tours.

It doesn't sound like you really do want advice, which is OK. Have a good trip.

The OP's original request was for comments about the time allocated to each stop and whether any days on the firm itinerary should be shifted from one location another. She commented that her rapid pace of travel may not be for others but that it was her chosen travel pacing. From that, she received comments about overall schedule length, pacing, number of destinations, different destinations, different itinerary or a reminder that it take time to travel from A to B. Instead of answering the questions she asked, many responders decided she need to be instructed on how to take the tip "properly", meaning according to their preferred travel approach. She wants advice, but in response to the question she asked, not opinions about how the trip is being planned inappropriately.

I thought you might have posted your actual order but wanted to check.

I have yet to encounter a "major" city train station that did not have secure luggage storage - either lockers or a manned checked baggage area (not many of these left I don't think), with lockers large enough to manage a full size suitcase. I know Cordoba has them.

So, on that basis you should see if planning to do "stopovers" would satisfy your interest in visiting Cordoba (Granada - Seville leg) and Carcassonne (Toulouse - Avignon). If your primary interest is in seeing the Mezquita and the Citadel, I think a stopover trip, which could range form a couple of hours up to half a day might work well. That would save you the return leg of a daytrip and may help you decide if you want to spend 1 more day in Lyon or Strasbourg (to make up for the long leg in reaching Strasbourg from Lyon and then going on to Paris. You would have more time to visit the small Alsatian wine towns south of Strasbourg with an extra day there.

I don't think that doing Cordoba as a stopover provides enough of a gain to justify the shift of a day between Granada or Seville, they each deserve the 2 and 3 you have planned, but it would save you an out and back day trip from Seville, making the stay there a little more restful.

Aramis,
FYI
The major city rail station of Córdoba, in fact, does not have luggage storage. It was eliminated several years ago. The bus station across the street does have luggage lockers.
https://www.estacionautobusescordoba...x.php/consigna

Also the luggage storage in Puerta de Atocha in Madrid has been closed due to covid-19.

Yes, it is your trip and you can do whatever you want - your time, your money, your choices. If you are comfortable with a fast paced trip, that is fine. Slow travellers like me are not coming with you so not my concern. What people are trying to point out is that you need to be prepared for things to take longer than you expect. For example- 3 days in Avignon. You seem to indicate this is not 4 nights. If day 1 is the day you travel from Toulouse, days 2 & 3 are day trip to Aix and Luberon tour, the only time for Avignon is after you arrive on day1 and maybe a couple of hours the day you leave which then cuts into time at the next stop. This is the idea behind thinking in terms of nights rather than days. Travel days can often be just that with little time left for a lot of exploration before departure or after arrival.

And yes, you do need to allow for some down time, time to do some laundry, time to savour some of the food and wine of the regions you will be visiting. Allow for one of you not feeling one hundred percent one day. It does happen.

You are working hard to make this a memorable trip, so have a wonderful time and come back with a trip report.

"I’d love to hear from others whether we should shake up the time planned in each location (ie allocate one day from X location in favour of an extra day in Y) or keep it as is."

yes, shake up your time to include laundry days, I hope that is clear

Thanks Maribel - and sorry victoriainwanderland. This made me realize how long it has been since I have been to Andalusia, and that made me sad.

Note to self - Double check recollections on availability of services before providing information.

I have never been to Carcassonne so I am sure OP will check the Carcassonne station details closely, now :-)

There is a little hop on bus from the Station in New-Carcassone (18th cent) to Old-Carcassone (14th cent) about 20 minutes tops as it goes a bit around the houses

Thank you! If I had asked an etiquette question in which I’d made a faux pas, I’d fully understand being given the advice I didn’t ask for, but I really don’t think that the majority have actually been able to appreciate is that this is how (for the time being) I travel and that their directions to ‘properly’ write my itinerary, do this, factor in that, etc are not helpful in the slightest or have otherwise already been factored into the equation. I certainly would not travel the way some on this forum do but it is not my place to tell them that and I wish they’d take that approach when responding to my threads.



I’ve traveled this way before and had an absolutely wonderful time and at times took spontaneous day trips because some places were overhyped and only needed a day at most. There are many encouraging me to factor in ‘down time’, and frankly the that last time I had down time while traveling (with a companion who wished to spend hours in a coffee house) I actually was annoyed because I didn’t fly 16,000kms to sit around and do something that was no different to what I could do at home.



Anyway, back to things - my friend wishes to visit Pamplona (though I’d rather skip it) hence we’ve allocated 2 days there in fairness, though it seems to be a bit of a journey from Barcelona. I am thinking whether perhaps instead we should look to visit Zaragoza (being a little more central between Barcelona and Madrid) maybe for 3 days and from there taking a day trip to Pamplona on the second day to break up the travel. Not sure if you’ve visited Zaragoza but would like to gauge whether that may be a better alternative to 2 days in Pamplona? Might have to make it a separate post? Hmm.

Well said, Victoria. You came to a site with a lot of travelers who spend time slowly rather than speed around. Travelers who like your way of traveling don't stick around here with trip reports and advice to others, so this site gets biased.

Perhaps you could start a trend here of having posters who can advise on fast moving trips.

Interestingly, my first trip to Europe (1963) was a fast paced "Grand Tour" but I did not do any arranging except for the one free day in Paris and one more in Rome. Oh, and a day in Venice, Over 6 weeks! But it did make a traveler of me, including a trip with my wife where we had no reservations and spent 3 weeks driving around France, nearly all one night stands.

I visit Pamplona every summer for 9 consecutive days (and sometimes in the fall), I was married there and have dear friends there, as we consider it a "second home". That said, the sights of Pamplona are really secondary for a one's first trip to Spain, although it has a lovely Old Quarter with a lively pintxos scene at night (but so do San Sebastián and Bilbao).

But....logistically, Pamplona doesn't make an easy day trip from Zaragoza by train if you intend to train from Zaragoza to Pamplona to Madrid (I'm a bit confused) on the same day.
The trains from Zaragoza to Pamplona, because of their departure times, do not allow a good full day's exploration of Pamplona before needing to take a train to Madrid, unless you're willing to take the early morning train at 6:11 am, arriving in Pamplona at 8:33 am and take the last evening train from Pamplona, arriving Madrid at 10:50 pm.
That would allow you more time, but requires a very early Zaragoza departure and a very late Madrid arrival.

In addition, like Córdoba and Madrid there is no longer luggage storage (consigna) at the rail station. You would need to find a place to store your bags in the city center. The rail station is not close to the center.
https://radicalstorage.com/luggage-storage/pamplona.



The next Intercity train on most days (outside of the Fiesta de San Fermín when Renfe puts on extra trains) departs Zaragoza at 11:39 am and arrives Pamplona at 1:21 pm.
The afternoon train from Pamplona to Madrid departs at 5:32 pm and arrives Madrid at 10:07 pm with a train change. The last evening train departs at 7:35 pm, arriving Madrid at 10:50 pm. Just so you know the practicalities involved in this. And, of course, it would require 2 separate rail tickets.
Use www.renfe.com for train schedules for your exact dates.

Thank you! I am sure that there will come a time at which I will want to spend a lengthy time in a given place to just soak it up but that is not my prerogative at this point in time. Even at home, I am an early bird who gets bored if I don't have a lot to do and it is incredibly frustrating having people constantly say things to the effect of "why bother, just skip it altogether if you don't have more time" when really, if you plan things well and move at the pace that I do, you can do a lot in a short time. And let's be frank, there really are some places that don't need more than a day trip - hence the reason I started this thread so as to scope out whether perhaps there were some places that didn't need much time at all or others that deserve more.

I think I will need to do more research re Pamplona (i.e. whether to base ourselves in Pamplona or elsewhere) and whether we go to Strasbourg or simply spend more time elsewhere (i.e. extra time in Lyon instead so as to allow a day trip to Dijon perhaps) but will stick to the general layout - it is certainly less intensive than I have done before, and should I be exhausted, I have a mind numbing 24 hours in a metal tube at 38,000 feet coming home at which I am sure a good sleep will be well appreciated.

Forgive the confusion - what I meant was possibly to stay in Zaragoza, take a day trip to Pamplona and then return to Zaragoza before on another day continuing on to Madrid.

Is there anywhere in the north of Spain you would recommend we base ourselves instead? I feel Pamplona would be lively during San Fermin (which we won't see given this week be in the first week of June 2023) but personally from what I have researched I agree that perhaps it may be a secondary place of interest though my friend is insistent on visiting.

I considered perhaps staying in San Sebastian and doing a day trip to Pamplona (the train times looking relatively reasonable, granted there not being too many departures in a day) though that would require us to fly from Barcelona to San Sebastian and thereafter to fly from San Sebastian to Madrid.

In the worst case scenario, from Barcelona, I will go off to Zaragoza for 2 days while my friend goes to Pamplona and then meet up again in Madrid though I would be curious to hear your opinion on Zaragoza over Pamplona (to decide whether I just stay with my friend in Pamplona for the 2 days) or if there is somewhere else nearby that is an easy distance to Pamplona but perhaps more interesting for our base as a first time visit.

For Pamplona info
https://www.pamplona.es/en/tourism

You can look into buses as well as trains. I took a bus from SS to Pamplona, and the scenery was good. In general I prefer trains, but in the north of Spain sometimes buses work better.

Sorry I misunderstood.
The day trip to Pamplona would depend entirely, I think, on the number of trains that day.
For what it's worth, I also think of Zaragoza as a very secondary visit for someone's first trip to Spain unless one is a big fan of mudéjar architecture (I am but I have a great interest because I've studied it).

As much as I love Pamplona for the very personal history that my husband and I have there and for our Pamplona family, for a 1st time visitor San Sebastián and Bilbao offer more excitement and more to see/do in general. They have more of a wow factor. SS can be extremely expensive but a bit less so in June than July-August when hotel rates soar and we sometimes need to stay out in Getaria or Zarautz. We're headed there at the end of this month.
Bilbao is more reasonable in terms of lodging, but SS is closer, about an hour, 5 min direct, on the Conda bus from Pamplona (we take the bus often). The bus line is a division of the Alsa bus company.
See the schedule here-
https://www.alsa.es.

It's not my trip (but you asked :), I would fly from Barcelona to San Sebastián on Vueling (the airport is actually in Hondarribia but you can take a bus from the airport into SS. Most people do (or taxi). You don't have to fly from San Sebastián to Madrid if you're willing to take a longish train ride. The best train, the Alvia, departs SS at 8:57 am and arrives Madrid at 2:58 pm.
See renfe.com for departures for your dates.

Thank you - this was very helpful! I may actually make a separate post about this though I do like the idea of flying in/out of San Sebastian and visiting Pamplona for the day by bus. I have heard incredible things about the food in San Sebastian and while I think the architecture of Zaragoza is beautiful, you are a seasoned traveller of Spain so I will take your word to leave it for another visit :)

I have been to Zaragoza, but not Pamplona. We chose Zaragoza as a stop, over Pamplona, when driving between Rioja and Barcelona for many of the reasons already noted here. We didn't think that Zaragoza offered a wealth of greater sites, but it was both more direct and the Catedral - Basílica de Nuestra Señora del Pilar proved to be the tipping point. The cathedral is not that spectacular on the inside but, boy, is it ever something to lay your eyes upon from the outside on a first visit. Pamplona is about 2 hours from Zaragoza by train on the fastest trip so that my be a decider for you. San Sebastian probably has the most to offer and with Pamplona only an hour away maybe flying there and making a daytrip would be the best compromise for you and your friend. Of course, Zaragoza is around 4 hours closer to Madrid via AVE than San Sebastian is (5:42 hours from San Sebastian) so that is a long trip down to Madrid after flying in from Barcelona for 2 days.