Incognito

If one day in order to travel to Europe we will need to be fingerprinted on arrival and buy $100 visa would you travel to Europe as often as you do now?
I would go once a year not five times every year

LilyLace

Yes. I believe that the measures taken are for our own protection. There should not be a double standard, we have expected certain visitors to obtain VISAs before entering the US for years. I love to travel and try to always be respectful of the laws and expectations of other nations.

Lily

Cicerone

Many countries require a visa for entry (i.e., USA, PRC, India, Russia, Bhutan)which often includes a lenghthy application, photograp and/or fingerprints. Many countries impose high visa fees (i.e. Turkey $100, Russia $100, PRC $60). Many countires offer multiple-entry visas so you can travel as much as you want within a certain period (i.e. PRC 2 years, India 10 years). It all seems to work and tourists keep lining up to visit. . .

Patrick

It wouldn't affect me. I'd still go. I don't get why the fingerprinting would bother anybody except a criminal, which I'm not.

I don't get the visa deal though. How long are most visas good for? Are you saying you'd have to buy 5 $100 visas if you went 5 times in one year? I only go once a year, so it isn't my concern, just curious.

adrienne

Hi Incognito,

Since I only go to Europe once or twice a year I would pay for the visa.

Fingerprinting is no problem. I was fingerprinted as a school child so my criminal tendencies were thwarted early in life due to fear of quick capture. Public school teachers (in the US) have to be fingerprinted so what's the big deal.

jody

The new biometric passports that will be required after October Should eliminate a need for visas for those countries that will use them for entry into the US. And I would imagine US citizens using the new passports would be granted reciprocity with those countries.

But since this is really a hypothetical question, paying an extra fee wouldn't cut down on my travel. I'd just count it a part of the cost of going and having a great time!

nytraveler

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about fingerprinting. Most (I would think) Americans have already been fingerprinted since there are so many activities/occupations where it is frequently required, among others:

military service
law enforcement
teaching (as someone said)
any job requiring bonding
grand jury participation

I am concerned about attempted changes to people's existing legal rights - but don't see how fingerprinting really affects this - unless you're trying to pass yourself off as someone else.

ira

Hi incognito,

You travel to Europe 5 times a year. If it cost an additional $100 per trip you would only go 1 time per year.

You can do 4 trips to Europe for only $400? Please tell us how you do it.

JandaO

I would have no problem with this. For safety I can sacrifice.

BTilke

I was fingerprinted for a job at a bank--as opposed to a "bank job" ;-) so that doesn't bother me per se. And doesn't First Union take a thumbprint when they cash a check? However, I do worry about "information creep" where little by little, our right to privacy is being eaten away, most currently in the name of security...anyway, here is a joke (emailed to me by a die-hard Conservative!)

BTilke

(the joke...How to Order a Pizza in 2012

Operator: "Thank you for calling Pizza Hut. May I have your..."

Customer: "Hi, I'd like to order."

Operator: "May I have your NIDN first, sir?"

Customer: "My National ID Number, yeah, hold on, eh, it's
6102049998-45-54610."

Operator: "Thank you, Mr. Sheehan. I see you live at 1742 Meadowland
Drive, and the phone number's 494-2366. Your office number over at Lincoln
Insurance is 745-2302 and your cell number's 266-2566. Which number are
you calling from, sir?"

Customer: "Huh? I'm at home. Where d'ya get all this information?"

Operator: "We're wired into the system, sir."

Customer: (Sighs) "Oh, well, I'd like to order a couple of your All-Meat
Special pizzas..."

Operator: "I don't think that's a good idea, sir."

Customer: "Whaddya mean?"

Operator: "Sir, your medical records indicate that you've got very
high blood pressure and extremely high cholesterol. Your National Health
Care provider won't allow such an unhealthy choice."

Customer: "Damn. What do you recommend, then?"

Operator: "You might try our low-fat Soybean Yogurt Pizza. I'm sure
you'll like it"

Customer: "What makes you think I'd like something like that?"

Operator: "Well, you checked out 'Gourmet Soybean Recipes' from your
local library last week, sir. That's why I made the suggestion."

Customer: "All right, all right. Give me two family-sized ones, then.
What's the damage?"

Operator: "That should be plenty for you, your wife and your four
kids, sir. The 'damage,' as you put it, heh, heh, comes $49.99."

Customer: "Lemme give you my credit card number."

Operator: "I'm sorry sir, but I'm afraid you'll have to pay in cash.
Your credit card balance is over its limit."

Customer: "I'll run over to the ATM and get some cash before your
driver gets here."

Operator: "That won't work either, sir. Your checking account's
overdrawn."

Customer: "Never mind. Just send the pizzas. I'll have the cash ready.
How long will it take?"

Operator: "We're running a little behind, sir. It'll be about 45 minutes,
sir. If you're in a hurry you might want to pick 'em up while you're out getting the cash, but carrying pizzas on a motorcycle can be a little awkward."

Customer: "How the hell do you know I'm riding a bike?"

Operator: "It says here you're in arrears on your car payments, so
your car got repo'ed. But your Harley's paid up, so I just assumed that you'd be using it."

Customer: "@#%/$@&?#!"

Operator: "I'd advise watching your language, sir. You've already got a
July 2006 conviction for cussing out a cop."

Customer: (Speechless)

Operator: "Will there be anything else, sir?"

Customer: "No, nothing. oh, yeah, don't forget the two free liters of Coke your ad says I get with the pizzas."

Operator: "I'm sorry sir, but our ad's exclusionary clause prevents us from offering free soda to diabetics."

Cobos

I think some of the problem with especially the fingerprinting is that at least in my home country Norway we NEVER ever use fingerprints for anything except criminal investigations... What we do have is personal ID number similar to the US security which is used to uniquely identify you whenever you have to sign up for something involving money f. inst. While I've heard the US doesn't have that kind of system ?
So I do not like the idea of someone taking my fingerprints, but I realise that is the price to pay to enter the US after Oct 24...

Cobos

Cobos

uuhhhh

i as trying to figure out the math too, ira.

Patrick

Ira, with all due respect, I think you're trying to put words into Incognito's mouth. I didn't read that he only spends that much. I think he's saying that if it cost $ 100 EXTRA every time he went, he wouldn't go so often. Sounds sort of logical to me.

Ryn2691

As far as I've been able to determine, there does not seem to be a mandate for US passports to contain biometrics. I just got a new one for my minor son, and there is no mag strip on it, only the usual barcode. (It does have microprinting on the ID page, though.) A barcode is only a link to a record, which would mean that the passport service would have to open their database access to passport control in other countries. I personally can't see Ridge allowing THAT anytime soon, as he and his minions are petrified of offshore hackers.

So, how would you get the biometrics onto your passport? I have a Disney pass which uses a finger scan; when you first buy it you just get a voucher, then you have to have the scan done in person at one of the parks in order to activate it. As a passport is legal ID, I can only see 2 possibilities for the setup. The first would be that the agency accepting your application would do the scan at that time, *or* scanners would be set up at int'l terminals and ports, so that the scan can be coded as you exit the US. If they have the accepting agency do it, it looks like they would have to be a LOT more restrictive as to where you could apply.

Incognito

Thank you Patrick.
Ira, I have no idea how you came to such conclusion. Ira, this is not about money, it is about all this trouble of getting visas. I travel 5-7 times per year to Europe and I don't think I would want to fill out all visa aplications so many times.

I have nothing to hide so getting fingerprinted is not an issue for me.
But does it mean that every country I travel to would have to do its own fingerprinting?
Well, I would still travel but long lines at CDG, AMS or FCO after a long overnight flight to Europe wouldn't be very appealing. How long it would take to fingerprint on arrival so many people in the airport? Is this what is going on when a visitor arrives in the US? Do all visitors have to line up to be fingerprinted in the airport?
BTilke, I have those concerns too

ira

Hi Incog,

Now that you have mentoned the hassle of visa applications, I can see your point.

If you go to the Schengen (sp?) countries you would need only 1 visa.

When I was fingerprinted in GA for my driver's license, it took about 10 sec. They don't use ink pads anymore, you put your thumb on a digital scanner.

Flyboy

I doubt that you would be talking about applying and paying for a separate visa with each trip, although I suppose it is possible. A visa for Brazil, for example, is good for unlimited entries over a five-year period and aggregate stays up to 180 days annually. It was a bit of a hassle to obtain through the consulate because it couldn't be done by mail, required photos, fee, etc. Other countries simply issue visas upon entry. It just depends on what kind of system and charges would be adopted, but reciprocity is a logical response if visas to the U.S. should become complicated and costly.

JimSteel

Lets just think about us poor Europeans travelling to the Us for a minute. It has just been announced that all UK citizens travelling to the US after Oct 2004 will have to have a Visa if they do not have a new bio metric passport. (the UK will not be moving to BM passports until 2005)
You can only get a visa from London or Belfast. So, Mr & Mrs Scotland will have to travel up to 500 miles to London, then under go a 2 hour interview, then pay £68 for the visa and then return home. Do you think there going to do this? Expect a large drop in UK visits to the US this year.

RufusTFirefly

So don't go to Europe--it'll be less crowded for me.