Fine tuning Scotland/London golf/sightseeing vacation!
 

Back in May, y'all were very helpful in getting me started in putting together a 15 day vacation to Scotland (and last 3 nights London). As a reminder, we are two couples. The other male is a serious golfer and the rest or us love scenery, music, dining, wine, history, etc. He is trying to make arrangements to play Muirfield, St. Andrews and Dornoch. Any suggestions, other than Sandy Bell's for traditional music would be appreciated. Will have two rental cars (to accommodate us sightseeing meeting up with his golfing). Both couples departing from Texas.

Basic parameters are set but back at you trying to do some fine tuning. Do you suggest buying any tickets in advance? Hopefully I will ask all of my questions BUT please do not hesitate to make general observations, suggestions, etc.

Starting in Edinburgh. Staying Inn On The Mile. Eating at Sandy Bell's for trad music and Pickles for wine. Will tour Royal Mile area on our own. Plan on using Edinburgh Cab Tours for one or two days. Will not rent the cars until ready to depart Edinburgh. Any other private tour operators would you recommend?

Driving to St. Andrews. Staying Hotel du Vin. Actually tried couple of other hotels and they were booked. Plan on stopping in Crail and Anstruther as we drive to St. Andrews. Do you recommend that we use a private guide for St. Andrews? Otherwise, plan on seeing St. Andrews Cathedral, Golf Club, Pittencrieff Park, St. Andrews Castle, etc. Your suggestions on must see!

Driving to Aboyne. Staying Douneside House one night. Eating lunch at Moulin Pitlochry, driving through/by Perth, Kinclaven, Blairgowrie, Dunkeld, Balmoral Castle, Ballater, etc. This will be primarily a driving tour day - on the way ultimately to Dornoch. The next day, we plan on sightseeing on our way to Dornoch - through St. John's seeing Dunkeld Cathedral, Edradour, etc. Any suggestions (we know this is a busy two days but have accepted). Any restaurant or pub recommendations for dinner near Aboyne?

Driving to Dornoch and staying Fionn Lodge. Looks like the things to do here are Dunrobin Castle, Skibo Castle, Dornoch Beach, Dornoch Cathedral, Falls of Shin, etc. Any ideas? Remember we love scenic beauty, wine, etc. Any driving itineraries in that area you recommend? Appreciate suggestions on the best places to eat in Dornoch. We love pubs and listening to live folk music, so once again, any suggestions appreciated.

Driving to Invergarry and 'probably' staying at Glengarry Castle Hotel. They are not taking reservations yet for next May. Plan on sightseeing around Loch Ness and Urguhart Castle. An other suggestions? Suggestion on a beautiful place for lunch (overlooking the Loch) or dinner?

Driving to Balquhidder and staying Monachyle Mhor. We love their food. On way to Monachyle Mhor will do the Skye visit. Suggestions? It looks like The Stein Inn would be great for lunch. Agree?

Driving to Edinburgh, returning rental cars and taking train to London. Will want to see Stirling Castle on the way. Staying Chesterfield Mayfair hotel in London. Plan on using a guide in London. Have looked at London Private Tours, London Tours By Taxi, London Cab Tours, London Black Taxi Tours and finally London Cabbie Tours - Private Tours. Any experience with these or other guide suggestions? Have not located any beautifully situated pubs or restaurants -- recommendations?

As an aside, we are returning business class via Virgin Atlantic. Looks like an interesting experience - looking forward to their lounge at Heathrow and the small bar on the plane. They have a 'quick, non congested' special place, called VA Upper Class Wing, to check in and clear immigration and security. Paid a few more miles but looks like a good experience.

Thanks for suggestions and answering what I forgot to ask.

>>Do you suggest buying any tickets in advance?<<

What sorts of tickets are you asking about? Sites, theatre, trains (doubtful since you will have cars) or something else?

>>Plan on using Edinburgh Cab Tours for one or two days. Will not rent the cars until ready to depart Edinburgh. Any other private tour operators would you recommend?<<

I personally would not do a tour in Edinburgh. Everything (and I meant everything) is easily accessible on foot, by bus, by tram, or by cab. Basically one full day for the Royal Mile on foot - Castle, Camera Obscura, St Giles and on down to Hollyrood.

>>Do you recommend that we use a private guide for St. Andrews? <<

No. It is a small place and the Old Course to the far end w/ the Castle/Cathedral are walking distance

>>Otherwise, plan on seeing St. Andrews Cathedral, Golf Club, Pittencrieff Park, St. Andrews Castle, etc. <<

Pittencrieff Park is not in/near St Andrews. It is in Dunfermline which is more than an hour from St Andrews. If you want to see the Abbey -- that would be en route from Edinburgh before you got to Anstruther/Crail.

Skibo Castle is a private members club.

>>Driving to Balquhidder and staying Monachyle Mhor. We love their food. On way to Monachyle Mhor will do the Skye visit. <<

As I mentioned on your other thread -- the detour to Skye will only be a LOT of driving without seeing almost any of Skye. Invergarry > Skye via the bridge > Armadale/Mallaig ferry > Balquhidder is a 7 hour trip without a stop. If you actually wanted to see anything on the island you'd need an overnight. Otherwise SKIP it.

IMO/IME there is no reason at all to use a guide in London . . . but it is your trip/your money.

(If anyone wants to see the first thread http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...et-started.cfm )

Agree with Janisj that there is no reason to do a private tour in London. Do you all have the same interests and want to see the same things in London? Easy enough to do on your own.

In Mayfair you're very close to Shepherd Market; small area with pubs, restaurants. There's a good Lebanese, Al Hamra. Kitty Fisher's is supposed to be good there, but haven't been. If you want somewhere flashy and glamorous, go to Sexy Fish on Berkeley Square. Book restaurants in London, unless you don't mind where you eat. Places book up. Use opentable.co.uk for reservations.

>>Places book up<< Ditto . . . and many places like Sexy Fish book up quite far ahead

Good opinions -- I am in Houston area so gets me thinking about other things!

JANISJ
Sites for tickets - e.g., Stirling, etc. Will definitely get train tickets 90 days ahead of time.

So, will 'can' the guide in Edinburgh and pinpoint destinations and walk or get taxis.

I know! I know! - but still leaning towards the Skype side trip. We would have about 10 hours so a many photos, a dram at lunch and a castle. Thanks for your tenacity in trying to talk us out of it - greatly appreciated.

"Can" the London taxi guides!

TULIPS
Again, thanks for opening my eyes and heading out on our on in London.

I believe Sexy Fish would appeal more if we had a additional days. It does look great. Have done some research, and The Mayflower Pub and the Andover Arms Pub look more to our liking for our limited time. Some of our best memories of prior trips with friends, are in country specific eating establishments -- the beer and trad music in Ireland and high in the hills, drinking good reds, on Amalfi coast overlooking the sea.

Thanks for the idea on Shepard Market. I had never heard of it. We will definitely spend some time around there. I am sorry we will miss Portobello antique Saturdays.

>>Sites for tickets - e.g., Stirling, etc.<<

No need to pre-book any of those sorts of sites.

>>Will definitely get train tickets 90 days ahead of time.<<

The only train I see is LHR to Bath (which as I mentioned there isn't one ;) ) And yes, booking London to Bath ahead will save you some ££. BUT since the Express coach is easier, less of a slog, and cheaper -- that would make more sense that taking trains.

>>We would have about 10 hours so a many photos, a dram at lunch and a castle. <<

>>Thanks for your tenacity in trying to talk us out of it - greatly appreciated<<

Still trying >) Dunvegan Castle is at the very far end of Skye so 10 hours would NOT be enough time for the drive, many photo stops, a meal, a dram, and a castle. It would be a totally hellacious day inside the car for close to 8 hours non stop w/ an hour or two stretching your legs.

It really is not doable! (If I use more <B>!!!!!</B> will it convince you? Honest -- we are not trying to steer you wrong. You are from Texas -- driving 100 miles for a nice lunch is nothing. On Skye/NW Scotland -- 100 miles is a 4 hour drive.

JANISJ -- AM I HEARING YOU?

Am I paying attention to your sincere suggestions? NOW, need your opinion OR OTHER SCOTLAND EXPERTS, about a modification to our itinerary.

CURRENTLY...............
A. Tour Loch Ness in drive from Dornoch and stay Invergarry.
B. Tour Skye the next day and stay Monachyle Mhor in Balquhidder.

IS THIS MODIFICATION BETTER?????????????????
A. Tour Loch Ness in drive from Dornoch and stay either: Hotel Eilean larmain in Sleat or Cuillin Hills in Portree.
B. Tour Skye the next day and, once again, stay Monachyle Mhor that night.

Please note that I am asking if this modification would be better not good, great, or fabulous. Realizing that compromises are part of travel - group or otherwise.

If this is better, do you have any thoughts on which hotel would be better? OR, for that matter, any other hotels that would be superior to these two?

Love your "!!!!!? - keep them coming.

Neither is good but the second is a teensy slightly minimally nit better. To give you and idea Dornoch to anywhere on Loch Ness to Portree is a 5 hour drive w/o stops. So with say an hour at Urquhart, 10 minute photo stop for Eilean Donan and straight on to Portree you are talking 6-7 hour in transit. Then the next day from Portree to Balquhidder is a six hour drive plus stops. So with an hour at Glenfinnan and an hour in Glencoe you will have 15 hours in transit over two days -- I'd sure HATE to be the couple stuck in the back seat.

You are basically trying to fit a size 10 foot in to a size 6 shoe. Scotland is not a 'whiz through and you've seen it' sort of place.