Final Turkey Itinerary, 8/09 -- Comments Helpful as We are About to Book
 

My friend and I have just about finalized the itinerary for our 14 day trip to Turkey in very late August. This is what we are planning:

Arrive Istanbul from US, Sleep
Istanbul, Private Guide
Istanbul, Private Guide
Istanbul, Free
Istanbul, Free
Fly to Cappodocia at 10AM, Private Tour
Cappodocia, Private Tour
Cappodocia Free, Fly to Bodrum via Istanbul at 7:30PM
Bodrum, Free
Bodrum Group Tour to Ephesus By R/T Bus, Sleep Bodrum
Bodrum, Free
Bodrum, Rent Car, Tour Outskirts of Bodrum, Drive to Fethiye at Night
Fethiye, Free
Fethiye, Free
Fehiyte, Free, Fly to Istanbul on 9:30PM Flight, Sleep Near Airport
Fly Home to US

We have been told that we should stick with private tours in Cappodocia. In Bodrum and Fethiye, we will essentially be navigating on our own. (We will also be driving ourselves the 3 1/2 hours to Fethiye and we don't speak the language.) We were planning to take taxis with our guide in Istanbul for efficiency purposes. Maybe we can skip a car and driver in Cappodocia as well?

Any expert opinions on our itinerary or potential pitfalls we may experience would be great. We have never been to Turkey before and we don't want to spend alot of time in transport. We also don't want to be constantly changing hotels (which is why we are not staying in Kusadasi when we visit Ephesus).

Thanks in advance for your help!

Hi. My credentials: I lived in Turkey for 8+ years and have professionally advised 1000's of travelers about their trips there. I was recently asked by an expat Turk who has toured the length and breadth of Turkey many times to form a new plan for him and friends. Despite his experience, he was completely stuck re a plan for the beginner friends, so he asked me and was delighted with what we came up with together.

1. I would turn the whole trip backwards.
Spend the hottest chunk of your holiday at or near the beach. Save the coolest section for last when the summer is on the wane. The adjusted suggestion will save you 3 completely wasted hours on the road doing a day trip to and from Bodrum. I can't think of much more that would be so very tiring and unpleasant - 6 hrs road travel, plus white marble ruins in the height of summer (well-heated by the time you'll be there). Euh. Be warned.

2. Do istanbul last - always. Get in and get out. It's an absolute hornet's nest for naive new arrivals - get savvy first. I have met hundreds who HATE IStanbul bc they didn't heed this advice. It works - do it last and you'll have a much better time. Do NOT buy anything first time round. Wait until you get back at the end if you do not see better and cheaper elsewhere. A few things are only available in Istanbul, eg framed calligraphy. Rents are sky-high in the tourist area and prices set accordingly. Never buy anything in the Grand Bazaar if you care about prices.

3. Private tours & drivers are exhorbitant compared with group ones. I guess it depends on your budget. It all boils down to how good the guide is and if they are good, a group tour is absolutely fine. Been on loads. Note that petrol is extrememly expensive in Turkey and the price of any private travel may shock you. Taxis will not be cheap and well-shod foreigners will be additionally charged according to what they think they can get from you. Many drivers cater to 5 star cruise customers to whom cost is irrelevent and this is a baseline of their thinking.

4. Why not fly to IZMIR instead of Bodrum and stay in utterly delightful Selcuk, just 1 hour away in the direction of Bodrum ? Kusadasi is indeed awful and 20 minutes further away from the ruins of Ephesus than Selcuk, which is just 5 mins by car. It is a lovely genuine country town well set up for travellers with abundant attractions in and around the town and inexpensive too. You could spend many days there - 3 to 5 days are easy to fill. Search "things to do Selcuk" and you will see !

5. There is not much to see in Bodrum except the castle. It's a very tourist-y, quite ugly town, packed to the brim with low cost package tourists, mostly from Britain. I would instead recommend you spent several days in Selcuk and left early (around 0700), arriving in Bodrum around 1000. Leave your locked luggage at the bus office of the company you book your ongoing travel with on arrival (100% normal practice in Turkey; never had a problem and never heard of anyone having one either; you can ask for a "kupon" to be tied to your luggage and put out back and you get a receipt for it). They can point you into town: go see what you want to see for the day, catch an evening bus to Fethiye the same day, arriving in time for a nice stroll and dinner in the old town (delightful). Honestly - 1 day will do it.

In Fethiye, you can catch a cab from the bus station there to your hotel - very easy. Many bus companies offer shuttles downtown at your destinations - always ask about dolmus or minibus before buying your ticket. It's a bit far to walk. Summer nightlife = plenty of folks around after dark in a town like that. Families promenade even at 10pm

There are 2 day-boat trips of Fethiye bay (which also leave from lovely, nearby Golcuk, an upmarket boutique village on a marina) - 1 to the 12 islands and the other to Butterly valley. Both are nice ways to spend a day - especially when it will be that agonizingly hot. Take your own SPF as its very costly in Turkey.


In summary, I would definitely recommend
- Quick exit from Istanbul; fly to Izmir. 1 hr by road to Selcuk (your hotel will be able to tell you about transport options).Spend few days there.
- 3 hr bus to Bodrum for day only.
- Evening bus to Fethiye. Few days there.
- Flying out to Cappadocia is possible from nearby Dalaman or (further away)Antalya. I don't know the details anymore but also look at Antalya to Kayseri flights. Any hotel can organise a transfer from an airport to your hotel. In Istanbul there is an inexpensive Airport bus that goes to typical tourist areas, called "Havas".
- Cappadocia: few days; where are you staying ? Goreme is usual and right on the doorstep of the attractions but Urgup has much classier hotels on the whole.
- Fly Kayseri to Istanbul and with your experience, enjoy it ! There are double decker tour buses that leave from opposite Aya Sofya: a great, inexpensive way to check out the town in ease and mark things you would like to go back and see. Also the government (NOT private)boat tour of the bosphorous. Take "Eyewitness" guide to Turkey - and you won't need a guide !

Don't worry about language - all the places you mention are extremely highly developed tourisitic areas where almost everyone (except beginner staff) involved with tourists will speak reasonable, if not amazing, English.

Expect it to be be hotter than hades: Fethiye / Bodrum both 100 to 120 degrees everyday. Definitely take lightweight, pale umbrellas as parasols, dark sunglasses, purse-sized water-spritzer, a hand fan, those crystal-containing "sausages" you soak & wrap around your carotids (i think they are called neck buddies) and an insulated water bottle carriers. Water bottles are 500 and 1500 ml in Turkey. You will regret none of them and use them all the time (and be envied by less-well prepared travelers). Ruins in summer are particularly HELLISHLY hot and GLAREY ++++. Ephesus has WHITE marble roads ! Your clothes will need washing every day, aim for non-iron pieces that wash out and drip dry overnight in a bathroom. Look at travel and camping stores for cooler-than-cotton, no-iron fabrics like 'coolmax'. They cost but you can wear them for many years, including when NOT traveling.

Don't appear rich - dress simply and take modest luggage.

If I can be of any further help, please post specific questions. IYI YOLCULUKLAR !!! (good travels /bon voyage)

PS

You do not mention your age group, desired accomodation level or nationality. Declaring these will always give you you more relevant replies - could you please advise ? I feel that I am giving very general replies and have no idea who I am advising - except that one is a female.

Driving in Turkey is not for the faint-hearted and is very expensive, both the car hire and the gas. If you are used to driving on the Right side of the road, you will have some advantage. If you are not accustomed to it, I would strongly recommend you do not start learning in Turkey !
Definitely read this: http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/t...r/SafeDriving/
and
http://www.turkeytravelplanner.com/t...rvrSafety.html

Buses are how "everyone" travels and is the "normal" way to get around the country. They are the best quality vehicles and for short trips, say, of up to 4 hours, definitely consider them. They stop every few hours and are very economical. Refreshments re served by stewards - its all very civilised.

Oh yes, I highly agree Selcuk over Bodrum. I would avoid Bodrum at all cost. We drove ourselves in Turkey with no problem and did not book anything ahead in high season ( and we dealt with the heat). It is one of the easiest places in the world to do independent travel...every hotel is connected and the Turkish people are masters at hospitality that will go out of their way to make your visit easy and pleasant.

We even got lost in the dark while driving and were amazed at how helpful the people were.

You can look at our blog for ideas, info and pictures. This is where we stayed in Selcuk which I HIGHLY recommend:

http://www.soultravelers3.com/2007/0...nity.html#more

While in Fethiye do look into a private sail as the Turquoise coast is amazing and a great way to beat the heat. You don't want to miss Kaz or a lovely little nearby village that can only be reached by boat.

Here is where we stayed in Fethiye

http://www.soultravelers3.com/2007/0...s-turquoi.html

Having a pool or sea to dip into helps greatly with the heat.

Turkey is actually easier to navigate and do independently and more modern than much of Europe.

I highly recommend that you "swim with the Gods" here

http://www.soultravelers3.com/2007/0...ale-and-h.html

Happy travels!

I would recommend that you choose Kas over Fethiye. We just returned and Kas was our FAVORITE stop! Also, we drove a car and found it to be very manageable.

Good advice above. Skip Bodrum. We didn't visit there on the advice of several Turks we met en route. I loved Selcuk, nice town, good restaurants, charming. We also stayed in Kas and Kalkan, which we loved. Great beaches nearby. We especially didn't want to leave Kalkan. We didn't have a car and took buses and dolmushes everywhere. Painless. Have a great time, you will LOVE Turkey!

You have alot of really good advise there and if I were you I would listen to all of it.

For regional weather, hottest months, rainfall by region etc., have a look at www.weatherinturkey.org.uk

Thank you so much everyone! Turcophile, We are two single, American women in our 40's. We generally like to stay in nice hotels . . . We were hoping to pay about $200 per night on average.

I am a little disappointed because we committed to our flights before I was able to check this board again. Is Bodrum really so unappealing? I have heard really mixed reviews on this. My Turkish friend loves it . . . she lives in the States now but had a "destination wedding" there.

Assuming we can deal with the heat, do you think we will get a view of everything from these 5 places?

Thanks.

I quite enjoyed Bodrum, but I was there before the season started. Aside from day-trippers from Kos who were there to shop, not a whole lot of tourists around. But I was only there for a couple of nights - enough time for the castle and the hamam. I enjoyed staying here: www.suhotelbodrum.com - but you seem to be looking for somewhere more expensive.

Thank you for the instructive and insightful advice.

"We were hoping to pay about $200 per night on average".
You can get extremely good accomodation for that amount of money. You could get very good for much less in some towns eg Selcuk. Bodrum and Istanbul are expensive by Turkish standards, and some of the places mentioned like Kalkan and KAS are boutique towns. All are packed in School summer vacation.

"I am a little disappointed because we committed to our flights before I was able to check this board again."
To be perfectly honest, I am quite disappointed that you did not check after asking for advice - I put a lot of time into providing experienced quality advice in hope it would make a worthwhile difference to your trip !

"Is Bodrum really so unappealing?"
Well, everyone is different. My answer is I would give it 2 / 10 as a place I would recommend to visit at all. To answer your own question: consider "concrete jungle as packed as malls at Christmas, with loud thumping nightlife and high prices to boot. Omnipresent full english breakfast and curries catering for the Brits who have come only for the shopping and the nightclubs". It was not a place that independent travellers ever bothered with for more than a quick look at the castle and the mausoleum site, if at all. Didyma, Miletus and Priene can be done from there but so can also be done from Selcuk.

"I have heard really mixed reviews on this. My Turkish friend loves it . . . she lives in the States now but had a "destination wedding" there."
Well well-off Turks do flock to places like that; tey can afford it . They love Kusadasi too which is truly horrible & completely devoid of any charm. Westernised Turks typically love "westernised". Bodrum is their dream destination.
Did you know its nickname is "bedroom" ? I'll leave it to your imagination as to why !
Foreigners are often typically more interested in seeing something they DON'T have at home like aspects of traditional Turkish life or historically significant classical ruins rather than the 'same old' as home. There used to be a "show" trip from Bodrum where you went to a village to see a 3-day wedding enacted in 3 hours or something. It was a village where the houses were built of stone full of glittering minerals that sparkled in the sun / light. Perahps you might be lucky enough to find out about it.


"Assuming we can deal with the heat, do you think we will get a view of everything from these 5 places"?
What do you mean by "everything" ? What are you hoping to experience in Turkey ? To me it's not about "Where to go" but rather about "What do I want to see / hear / experience ?" THEN you can find places where you can do that. To me your friend should have said "How does "concrete jungle as packed as malls at Christmas, with loud thumping nightlife and high prices to boot. Omnipresent full english breakfast and curries catering for the Brits who have come only for the shopping and the nightclubs sound ? It's nickname is "bedroom" bc of what goes on there. Sounds great ? Well have I got the place for you !"

Can't you swap your flights for alternatives ? You aren't asking for a refund.

If impossible, take very effective ear plugs / phones and go to bed early and get up early. The town is almost deserted until noon (sleeping off the "all nighter"), but that means almost all the shops are also shut too. You could could abandon Bodrum as soon as you have had a enough, forget the day trip tour to ephesus and instead bus up to Selcuk for a few days. If you do, there is a brilliant tradtional market at Tire on Tuesday and a very good one in Selcuk on Saturday.

But perhaps Selcuk is not for you either. I am just going my long tourism experience of thousands of travellers and what they usually enjoyed - and did not. I actually don't know anything at all about your interests and hopes re Turkey :/

Thanks again, Turcophile. I apologize that I didn't check the board before booking my tickets . . . I posted similar questions earlier under a different TOPIC tag, and no one responded for a full week so I didn't have high hopes for responses. I really do appreciate your time and thoughts and we have been thinking about changing some things. Our original problem was that the direct flights from Cappodocia to Ismer only depart 3 days a week and not on the day we needed. We also wanted to minimize the number of transfers we would need, as well as constantly changing hotels. I have done this before and there is alot of wasted time packing and unpacking and the whole thing is pretty time consuming. WE also wanted to minimize "guide time" and when you spend only one or two days somewhere, there is not alot of margin for error, finding your way, etc.

With regard to our interests, we like ruins, learning the history and the culture, etc. We are also single, so would enjoy a little nightlife -- but we are not huge partiers looking to stay out til 4 in the morning.

We selected the itinerary so we could experience several areas with conveniently timed flights, minimum driving and the least number of hotel movements.

From everyone's comments, it does not appear we will love Bodrum. Perhaps we will rent a car for an additional day there and visit Didyma, Miletus and Priene, as you recommended. In earlier versions of our itinerary, we planned to stay in Kusadasi, visit Ephesus, and travel to Bodrum through these areas. (Again, that required all kinds of transport, etc.)

So, thinking about it, if we are in Bodrum and do one daytrip to Epheusus, one to Didyma, Miletus and Priene, one to the outskirts of Bodrum (Castle, etc) and one day to just RELAX, will that be better?

Lastly, does Turkish Air charge a penalty if we were to change our flight from Cappodocia to Bodrum and instead flew to Izmer?

Thanks so much for your's and everyone's help!

<<Don't appear rich - dress simply and take modest luggage.>>

A lot of excellent advice and I intend to follow the above. Turcophile spent a lot of time and effort posting and I'm gleaning some gems for my September group tour. I think others probably will too.

I will be spending three days in Istanbul before heading out to the country and six days at the end. I did intend to shop in Istanbul, but now I'll wait. Does the advice not to shop in Istanbul apply to government-run shops? I'm thinking about a small kilim, a hall runner and don't want to pay too much and thought the government run shops would have fixed prices and good rugs.

Is there another place that I could find a nice kilim? We will staying in the following:

Istanbul, Canakkale, Izmir, Pamukkale, Antalya, Cappadocia, (hotel: Kapadokya Dedeman), and Ankara for two days.

Thanks for the advice,
Lu

<< does Turkish Air charge a penalty if we were to change our flight from Cappodocia to Bodrum and instead flew to Izmer?>>

I think it's best to contact the airlines about that. Unless they work for the airline, anyone here would be guessing.

I've had to pay $100 to Delta to change my ticket and I think it's up to $150 now, but this depends upon the type of ticket you bought. Even if you have to pay it might be worth it to you, you could find a way to recoup that fee somewhere else in your budget.

Good luck on your trip and have fun.

Lu

If you are returning Istanbul before going back home and have time, do window shopping for the rug and also check Cappadocia and if you are happy with the ones you found in Istanbul do your purchase. There is no Government shop other than Dosim which is a non profit ( almost ) organization to keep handicrafts alive in parts of Turkey and usually they are at the entrance of big museums.

There are no direct flights to Bodrum. If you are flying to Izmir, drive to Bodrum after Ephesus, with visits en route to Prienne, Miletus and Didyma is a good choice.

If your ticket has restrictions penalties may apply and better to ask where you have bought them.

Happy travelling,

Murat

Sue Blue
I changed my flight on turkish air without problem and have to pay a change fee of $100 but it was important enough for me to change it.

Mind you my flight was from Moscow to Kayseri, so it may be less for domestic. I would call or email Turkish airlines as they will have the answer for sure how much it costs.

Turcophile you gave some great information that is really going to help me as I plan a trip for next September/October to Turkey. Plan to follow most of your ideas except skip Bodrum and Fethiye and go straight to Cappadocia from Izmir. Selcuk sounds great!