Feel funny asking this, but as a Jew, do you feel "funny" visiting Germany?
 

Flying into Frankfurt, and thinking of going to Stuttgart to see the Mercedes and Porsche museums because my husband is a car nut. My parents would turn over in their graves if they knew I was planning to vacation in Germany. They are probably turning in their graves as we speak because I used to drive a Mercedes, and now have an Audi. It doesn't make sense that I feel strange about going to Germany, but I sort of do. Does anyone else feel this way or know what I mean?

>feel this way or know what I mean?
Yes, but try to be open minded. It will get better once you're there.

Funny you should ask. Sometimes I feel the ghosts so to speak, but there I was sitting in that restaurant at the Eagles Nest having a hot chocolate and thinking "if Adolf could see me now." Talk about someone spinning in a grave.

I understand what you mean by it not making sense to feel strange (I do, and I'm goyish), but history records that the vast majority of Germans weren't complicit in the Holocaust.

Yes, they got behind that guy who accomplished so much so quickly, joined in the adulation and nationalistic pride, but when his program turned brutal, most of them turned their backs and let it go. By the time the depredations began in 1933, there wasn't really a thing the Good Germans could do about them without risking the <i>konzentrazionslager</i> themselves, and so they had to stand by and watch helplessly as the tragedy played out.

Orange,

Although that concern has not been top of mind for me, it was for my brother-in-law for many years. He finally acquiesced to his wife's insistence on a Germany trip. He had a great time! He said that his weird feelings went away immediately and he thoroughly enjoyed himself.

They went on a trip to Dachau, and they both found it moving and disturbing in a way that was appropriate to what they were experiencing. He mentioned to me that going there did not impede his ability to enjoy the other parts of the trip. In fact, he came a Reisling wine enthusiast!

So, no, I don't think your concern is strange or silly. Germany is a beautiful country filled with wonderful sights and people. If you go, you may find your &quot;funny feeling&quot; start to dissipate and be surprised by your ability to appreciate what is in front of you----one of the joys of travel I think!

LisaG

I was with a Jewish man when we visited Germany extensively. He kept saying &quot;this one was there, that one was too&quot; thinking of all the mobs cheering when Hitler spoke. He didn't enjoy his stay at all, his relatives had been killed in the Holocaust.

When we went to Eagle's Nest he was and the area below it he was getting ill from it.

As a Jew, there have been moments during trips to France, Germany, and Austria when I felt the ghosts. Walking down the Rue de Rosiers where people were rounded up before being sent to the death camps, for example. Austria with its foot-dragging on restitution of looted Jewish art and its support of Kurt Waldheim's position of leadership felt much more creepy a place than Berlin, to be honest. Germany has probably done more to confront its complicity in the holocaust than many other nations have--Austria, Ukraine, France, and Poland for example. And Russian Jews are moving to Germany in large numbers. So that might make you feel better.

I will be candid about one thing--whenever I read hear about people visiting Bierchtesgarten or Oberamegau (sp?), I have a visceral negative reaction. I couldn't go to those places, with so many evil associations, and concentrate on anything else--no matter how beautiful.

I don't think &quot;funny&quot; is the right word. Racism still very much exists. I was in Munich a few years ago, and passed on the street by a young man who made a point of saying &quot;heil Hitler&quot; to my husband and me. (My husband wears a Star of David) Did it stop us from traveling throughout Germany? No way! We will never let these few idiots get the best of us.

As a Jew, I initially felt strange being in Vienna. But then, I said to myself and anyone who could hear my thoughts - Ha!! We're back!!!

That being said, whenever my husband and I saw an old lady or man (80's), we thought - is that one of &quot;them&quot;?

Aside - We were in Budapest recently and stayed at a B&amp;B. A woman was there who is Hugnarian and she told us that when she went to Poland (a hop, skip and a jump away from Hungary), she could not visit Auschwitz. So, you see, this unease still affects European Jews, too, of course (probably even more than it does for us in the U.S.)

Don't feel funny asking the question. With the history behind the question, it seems only normal.

I know what you mean, and I think it's personal. Only you can decide.

Are you torn between what you want to do and what your parents would think of you doing it? Then it's not only about being Jewish, it's about generation gap :)

By the way, there is a Jewish community in Berlin, and it's growing. You can visit there if it will make you feel better.

Now, that I think I've made it easier for you... what about going to Poland? Would you go there?

Well... I don't think I will be in either of these countries any time soon!

Hi orangetravelcat, I've been living in Stuttgart for two years; I'm not Jewish but had Jewish relatives. I spent over 5 hours at Dachau last summer and became quite emotional during my visit. If you have an opportunity to visit there, I highly recommend it, as the exhibition is excellent, but be sure to take your time. It is not something to see &quot;in passing.&quot;

As others have said, Germany is a beautiful country full of wonderful people. Yes there are bad memories, but you have to remember that the people responsible for the atrocities are long gone and Germany is a different place now. There are reminders of the war everywhere (the hill behind our house was formed from WWII rubble), but Stuttgart is a vibrant, cosmopolitan city and I am sure you will enjoy your time here.

Speaking of which, the new Mercedes museum is an architectural marvel in addition to being an excellent automotive museum. The Porsche museum is very small (they are currently building a new facility, set to open in 2008), but worth a visit by any car nut!

Have a great time!

OTC:

As a Jew when I went to Germany, it was indeed a little hard to take although as another poster said, the people responsible for the horrors are long gone.

While I did indeed have a nice holiday and we did visit both Berlin and Munich. Dachau was very moving. My husband who is not Jewish was astounded by Dachau and very very moved. For me, seeing it was important, but growing up hearing all the stories I was a bit better prepared for it all than my husband was.

But to be real honest, Germany is not a place I long to return; part because of too many stories about my family perishing in the Holocaust( my entire maternal grandfathers side, except him who came to the US all alone a few years before the war), and part because there are other places in Europe I just enjoy more. But we did have a nice time and the people were very nice. I did enjoy Munich a bit more. I know there are lovely places in Germany other than these two major cities and some posters here really love so many of the beautiful areas in the countryside.

And this may sound kinda rough, but I had visions when I was on the trains in Germany I had a stronger sense of what it must have been like in one of those cattle cars. Not that the train we were on was as cramped and severely unpleasant as a cattle car I am guessing was; far from it ; it was quite nice actually. Just the point of being on a train in Germany kinda &quot;freaked&quot; me out a little ( I know that sounds a little dramatic, but that is how I experienced it)

There are so many places in the world that I want to see that I pobably won't get to them all--so I don't feel the need to visit a place where I think I'd be uncomfortable.

Martyharly - &quot;funny&quot; in this case does not mean humorous. &quot;Funny you should ask/funny you should should mention&quot; is a not very adequate translation of a common Yiddish phrase where &quot;funny&quot; combines the meaning of both &quot;coincidental&quot; and &quot;interesting.&quot;

It is a sad commentary that in this century racism still does exist. When will we learn?

Interesting posts. By the way, my partner, who is not Jewish, is the one who announced after our trip to Switzerland last year that I was not to take him to any German-speaking countries ever again. He can't hear that language without thinking of the holocaust. To be honest, I can't either. It may not be fair, but for someone who's Jewish or has Jewish family, I think it's understandable.

It has been illegal to make an anti-Semitic statement in Germany since 1949. Think about what that means for the multiple generations that have grown up since then. Germany is a startlingly different place than it was during the Nazi regime, and I hope that you are able to enjoy your trip to Frankfurt.

That said, I must take issue with Robespierre's easy excuses for the &quot;majority of Germans&quot; during the 1920s and 1930s. Mein Kampf was published in 1925. Hitler criss-crossed the country by airplane giving fiery speeches for years before becoming Chancellor. No truly &quot;Good German&quot; could have been under any illusion as to the way Hitler regarded Jews and other &quot;lesser races&quot;. Something was very very wrong with that society to have allowed the Nazis to take over the country. And Robespierre must have very limited local library at hand if he believes that historians agree few Germans were complicit in the atrocities. Maybe he should read something by Hannah Arendt or Raul Hilberg.

If you're of the younger generation, it's hard to understand. Everybody has lost family, if you're not willing to confront your feelings there can't be peace. It's understandable if the elder who have lived to all this won't confront their &quot;demons&quot;, but when the younger generation isn't willing to go, talk and listen, it'll never end.

&gt;&gt; there is a Jewish community in Berlin, and it's growing&lt;&lt;

I'm not Jewish and I had never thought about this, but is there much of a Jewish population left in Germany?

When I visited the Anne Frank attic, and walked around Amsterdam, I did often think how horribly frightening it must have been to be Jewish during that time. I honestly don't know how anyone had the mental strength to make it through a concentration camp. Anyone who has, I think is an amazingly strong person.

Google, and you'll see:

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/inf...itesBerlin.htm

I don't know how and I don't know why, but some families returned. Maybe for some it was important to prove they are able to come back? I don't understand this.

hi, orangecat,

I am not jewish, so hesitate to join in, but have decided to add a few comments. I was brought up in Coventry, which was horribly bombed in WW2. My father was a liberal type who encouraged me to learn german, and I ended up with a german penfriend, whose family I visited, and in turn, they visited us. Her father had been on the russian front and a british prisoner of war. one of the most moving moments of my life was standing in the ruins of the old coventry cathedral with my penfriend's father, weeping together.

we are none of us responsible for the sins of our fathers, [or our rulers?] and travel can help to prevent it happening again.

just my thoughts.

regards, ann