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Feedback on Trip Plans Spain and London (May June)

Feedback on Trip Plans Spain and London (May June)

Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 03:30 PM
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Feedback on Trip Plans Spain and London (May June)

Hello,

So after reading up here and in a couple of other places and identifying what we want to see and do, my friend and I have come up with the following itinerary. Any comments or suggestions? We are still torn about whether or not it is worth while to try the night train (pullman) from Madrid or just stay one extra night in Madrid and take the plane.

ITINERARY (The numbers refer to "day 1, 2, 3... of a 21 day itinerary.)

1 Thursday Transit/Plane US to Madrid

MADRID PART:

2 Friday--After checking into hotel and resting a little, take Madrid hop on hop off bus (2 day ticket) Get a sense for the city.
3 Saturday--Use hop on hop off bus to get to museums, etc.
4 Sunday--Museums and sights in Madrid, make time for Mass in some interesting church.
5 Monday--(organized tour to/from Madrid) Avila and Segovia (9 hours)
6 Tuesday--(organized tour to/from Madrid) Toledo and Escorial Tour (11 hours or split over two days?)
7 Wednesday--plans tba – Probably Flamenco in the evening.

UNDECIDED PART:
8 Thursday-- Stay one more night in Madrid or maybe leave Madrid and sleep in train?

SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA PART:
9 Friday--Arrive Santiago de Compostela by around noon to begin sightseeing.
(Do laundry in Madrid or here.)
10 Saturday --Sightsee SdeC possibly attend evening mass at cathedral? Meal at Hostal Reyes Catolicos?
11 Sunday --(Organized tour to/from SdeC) Finisterre tour includes lunch
12 Monday --Go by train to La Coruña to explore
13 Tuesday --(Organized tour to/from SdeC) Galicia Lower Estuaries tour includes lunch

LONDON PART:
14 Wednesday--Leave Santiago de Compostela via MAD, end in London for dinner. (Laundry today or tomorrow)
15 Thursday--Take London Hop on Hop off Bus or some sort of survey tour Probably visit the Tower or whatever friend wants. (Been to Tower 2ce before.)
16 Friday--Take underground to Westminster then boat to Greenwich see museum and Cutty Sark (on our own). In the evening good nightclub or dinner
17 Saturday--(Organized Tour to/from London) Cambridge and Oxford full day tour
18 Sunday--London Museums and sights – Go to major cathedral for church service?
19 Monday--Full day in Bath. Return late (train--on our own)
20 Tues--London Museums etc.

GOING HOME
21 Weds Depart London. If all goes well, sleep in US Exhausted but satisfied, I hope.

What do you all think? We have tentatively picked hotels and airline (three part trip: US to Madrid, Madrid to London, London to US) We thought a mixture of day tours and some excursions on our own would be best. (I hate seeing museums in a rush while the tour guide points out what s/he thinks is interesting.)

Any ideas for more things to do or better ways to manage time?

Thanks in advance.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 05:20 PM
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I suggest you go to Lugo rather than A Coruna.

http://www.galiciaguide.com/Lugo-index.html

Or if not Lugo, then Pontevedra if it is not included in your Estuaries tour

http://www.galiciaguide.com/Pontevedra-index.html

I found Toledo to be a really fascinating place, so much so I would have enjoyed spending a night there. You might not want to spend the night, but with your interest in religion, you might find this particular location in Spain, where Islam, Judaism and Catholicism held a dialogue, will intrigue you. Just like you are annoyed to be hurried by a museum guide, you might not want to be rushed in Toledo. So combining a visit to Toledo with a tour of the Escorial might be too rushed for you.

I don't know if there is Sunday mass at Real Ermita de San Antonio de la Florida, but it is my favorite chapel in Madrid.

http://www.esmadrid.com/en/portal.do?TR=C&IDR=492

If the Temple of Debod is not included on the hop-on, hop-off tour, I recommend tracking it down (or hopping off the bus there if it is).

http://www.madridtourist.info/debod_temple.html

As you plan your sightseeing days, bear in mind that many Spanish towns, including much of Madrid, only come to life later in the day, after 5pm. If you plan to visit a town like Lugo or A Coruna, or Pontevedra, it can be better to go later in the day and stay as far into the night as the train or bus schedule allows to get a sense of the towns.

I would probably fly to Madrid so as not risk losing a night's sleep, but if you know for certain you can sleep on night trains, up to you. Just a guess, but I bet Santiago de Compostela is filled with places to get a laundry done cheaply.
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 05:57 PM
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If you are flying internationally, from the States or somewhere as equally distance, then you need to allow time to adjust to the changes in dining time and get over jet lag. Have a lite lunch and then get a few hours rest, getting back up around 8:00 pm (20:00) to explore the city, but on foot. Head back to your hotel before midnight and get a good nights rest. You'll find that unless you're up to some late night partying, Madrid is fairly quite after midnight during the work week, and not much later on weekends.

As far as the rest of your time in Madrid, I recommend you read Maribel's Guides to Madrid (www.maribelsguides.com).

As far as going to Santiago, fly!
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 07:57 PM
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I agree with goldenautumn - trying to combine Toledo with El Escorial wouldn't give you enough time in Toledo (which I thought merited 2 full days).

Should be a great trip!
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Old Feb 3rd, 2013, 08:31 PM
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Do you know that the London HOHO bus is also good for the river??Gives you a different look @ Ole London Town. Your trip sounds pretty well thought out. You will have a wondeful time. So many people stress jet lag..You may be lucky(like me) and not experience it and you may probably be hyped up so you won't rest anyway. Coming home seems to be the huge bug bear as far as jet lag goes!!!
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 12:11 AM
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You can fly directly to London from SdC with Ryanair...which is not the best airline in the world, or from A Coruña with Vueling. No need to go back to Madrid at all.
The biggest mass of the day in SdC is noon the pilgrims mass.
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 12:13 AM
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I should add that getting to and from Bath for a full day will involve you travelling during the peak fare period. Be prepared for a shock at the price of this.
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 09:41 PM
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Thanks for all the advice so far. (Keep it coming!)

Would you all recommend a full-day tour to Toledo and then a half-day of El Escorial (and the inevitable Valle de Los Caidos)? This would mean less time in Madrid, but might be worth it.

Regarding the Temple of Debod in Madrid, I believe it is on the HOHO bus route and we are planning to see it for sure.

I was thinking of A Coruña instead of Vigo because it is a shorter train ride, but you are right that Vigo might have more historical interest. (The Rias Bajas tour is supposed to include Pontevedre.)

Regarding travel to or from Santiago, the train is under consideration because it might be fun, not because it would save money or time. The return to Madrid by plane makes most sense. We may end up doing it round trip (Madrid Santiago and back) if the train plan falls through.

We have been pricing our air fare with a "multicity" deal (Atlanta-Madrid-London-Atlanta), so introducing a trip to London directly from Santiago would mean changing the trans-atlantic air carrier and/or switching to "one ways." But it's worth considering in that it might save time/hassle.

Thanks, Rebeirasacra for the point about the mass. Of course one can go to mass every day in Santiago. And the pilgrim's mass must be something to experience.

As far as London and the river goes, we will probably take the Thames boat to Greenwich. I am not sure that is the same boat that is included in the HOHO bus deal. Is it?

Regarding the day trip to Bath, we can schedule it so we don't travel in peak hours unless peak hours run after 10 AM and 8 PM. (My thought was we would have dinner in Bath and head back to London after that.) But thanks for the tip about the fares going up. It's something to include in plans, though sometimes when traveling, you just shrug and live with the cost.

Regarding jet lag and rest, I have been across the pond three times and usually it hasn't hit me hard. But I don't know about my friend, so I figure the first day is for resting and doing some slow sightseeing according to our level of comfort.

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I'll probably have more questions as I plan, plan, plan.
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 10:05 PM
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> Would you all recommend a full-day tour to Toledo and then a half-day of El Escorial (and the inevitable Valle de Los Caidos)? This would mean less time in Madrid, but might be worth it.

If I understand correctly, your plan currently gives you part of Friday, all Saturday, most of Sunday, and all of Wednesday for Madrid. IMO, that's enough to cover the core attractions with a bit to spare. So yes, I would urge you to consider cutting Madrid by another half day so you have at least a full day in Toledo, rather than trying to cram both Toledo and El Escorial into a single day.

And if you really don't want to cut another half-day from Madrid, you might consider skipping Avila to free up another half-day for Toledo. Not that Avila isn't worth seeing - its just that IMO, Toledo is even more deserving of the time.

The good news is that you'll see some wonderful things no matter what you choose!

BTW, while I understand that the Valley of the Fallen is justifiably wrapped in controversy, I'll admit that I'm glad I saw it. I chose to make the trip in part as a testament to those who built it. I thought it an intriguing structure in a beautiful setting. And I was moved by the many Spaniards who seem to have gone just so they could stamp their feet on Franco's tomb.

And FWIW, I thought Toledo, Avila, and Segovia all very easy to visit on one's own - no need to join a tour unless that's your preference.

Enjoy!
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Old Feb 4th, 2013, 11:20 PM
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UK rail fares can be found here
http://www.thetrainline.com/
Had a quick peak the cheapest journey for two off peak is around 62 pounds. But the times of travel are restrictive. For me that is not good value for money, especially when compared with Spanish trains.
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Old Feb 6th, 2013, 09:42 PM
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I like organized tours when I just have a little bit of time available because they take you through the "highlights." I hate organized tours when I have more time because they don't let you see a lot.

As far as the train in England goes, I think if we travel mid-morning and evening (instead of early morning and afternoon) it comes to around 25 pounds per person round trip (Paddington to Bath Spa). That's not too bad (around $40).

Regarding my trip plans in general, the Galicia part is in danger of being cancelled because of the cost/complication of luggage.

I had not realized that the cost of the plane from Madrid to Santiago and back more than doubles if you have to check luggage. The hotel-train is very expensive, and the luggage situation is unclear there also. So unless we decide to travel with only one piece of hand-luggage, we have a problem.

Do people FedEx bags across Europe at reasonable rates? (Maybe the solution is to send our big bags ahead to London and just have hand-luggage for Santiago?)
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 11:58 AM
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This is getting confusing. I have just answered you about the Galician section on that thread.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 01:55 PM
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You're going to do Cambridge AND Oxford in a day? Seems difficult to see both in one day.

Do not HOHO in London - geez, what a waste of money and time. Just Tube to where you need to go. If you've been to the Tower twice, then you should be familiar with the Tube. And get the 2for1 deals on Daysoutguide.co.uk with the PAPER travelcards (NOT THE OYSTERCARDS) so you can save $30+ on the Tower (rack rate admission is 20.90 quid per person) and take a general walking tour from London Walks (www.walks.com) for 1/2 price instead of blowing money on a bus that will spend time stuck in traffic while you try to hear Charlie Brown's teacher on the PA system (or in the UK, on the Tannoy). The Cabinet War Rooms and St Paul's are also on the two-fer offers right now.

As for Spain, if you're going to go to Avila, go to Salamanca and not Segovia. Other than the aqueduct, Segovia is not really noteworthy if you're also seeing Toledo (ooh, aqueduct; now when's the next train out?). You go to Toledo first and Segovia is Toledo-lite. You go to Segovia first, and Toledo is Segovia on steroids with more historical value. Salamanca is excellent in its own right and very different from the other two.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 01:56 PM
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Yes, I am going to post only on this thread because my train questions were answered. I really appreciate your explanation, ribeirasacra about the airlines and the links on the other thread.

It does seem that the cost of luggage on Iberia Express roughly doubles the ticket cost. (Round-trip 80 Euros. Luggage as much as 60 Euros if you can't check in online. Maybe as "little" as 30 Euros.)

So I am seriously considering whether shipping things ahead ("parcel post") might not make sense. I have friends who do it here in the states, when they don't want to be cluttered by baggage--they send a box to their hotel which holds it for them. Is that an option in Europe? (I would be shipping between Madrid and London.)
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 10:55 PM
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(Reply to Big Russ's comments)

To me the virtue of the HOHO is not that it takes you places but that it gives you an overview of the city and points out places you may want to go. A "panoramic" tour might work as well, except that usually you have to go to one specific place to get on it, while with the HOHO there are lots of places where it stops and you can join the tour. We'll play it by ear. There is no need to buy the HOHO in advance.

Regarding oyster card versus travel card, thanks for the tip. Definitely the 2-for-one deal on some of these places will be worth it.

We are planning on an organized bus tour that goes to Oxford and Cambridge. I've been to both places (spent a summer in Oxford way back when) but my companion hasn't. He just wants a "surface" view so he can visualize the two places better, and the day trip is actually more convenient and no more expensive than going by train.

I always wanted to see Salamanca, but I've seen no tours out of Madrid to Salamanca, and there are several to Avila and Segovia. The question is whether it is worth it to take the train to Salamanca on our own or whether we would do better with an organized tour.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 11:22 PM
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> I always wanted to see Salamanca....

I thought Salamanca deserved at least 2 full days, so IMHO it would make better sense to wait to see it on another trip.

I did NOT think "Segovia ... Toledo-lite." I found Segovia and Toledo sufficiently different to enjoy on the same trip and quite honestly have never considered questioning whether seeing one would affect a decision about seeing the other. (Isn't it wonderful that this forum brings out such different perspectives?) I agree that there is MORE to see in Toledo, but I would not skip Segovia just because I had seen Toledo. I thought them quite different, and each worth visiting for their unique merits.

You might want to check some of the guidebooks that provide lots of high quality photographs of each.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 11:45 PM
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I would not rely on the Spanish postal system. Have you not got a Iberia card. I think you can apply for one then use the book flights without baggage costs.
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Old Feb 7th, 2013, 11:58 PM
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You don't need a tour to Salamanca. Just go out the door at the airport, cross the street and get on the direct bus..Two hours and a comfortable ride later you are in a magical place--Salamanca. Salamanca is a compact historical university town, small enough to walk and enjoy. Probably the most beautiful plaza major in Spain, very reasonably priced as far as expenses go as it is geared more for the student population than the tourist.
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Old Feb 8th, 2013, 03:58 AM
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FerrisFar,

Just to clarify a suggestion I made above:

Instead of A Coruna for a day trip, I suggested Lugo. You can read up on Lugo in the link I provided. I've never been to Vigo, but I have heard people say it is quite industrial and its historic center is quite small. I think Lugo would be the most interesting day trip.

Again, the link:

http://www.galiciaguide.com/Lugo-index.html

Regarding your luggage, do hand luggage. If you post on the boards and websites used by the pilgrims to Santiago de Compostela, they can tell you where you can do a laundry so you can pack super-light. In the alternative, book a hotel that will GUARANTEE you same day service on doing a wash. Pricey? Yes, but is it cheaper than checking a bag or shipping? Might be.
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Old Feb 8th, 2013, 08:34 AM
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>

That's nice. The rack rate is 18-26 quid depending upon the company. That's $28-$42 per person. Take two walking tours and you can still buy a decent lunch.
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