MaryAlex

Please help critic my itinerary. Also Please note that I can not change the dates or the start or end location as I fly into Barcelona and out of Athens (tickets are booked). If you can recommend cheap but air conditioned places to stay or parts of the city to stay. Particularly for Venice and Rome. First trip to this part of Europe.

Interests: Nature, Old historic sites, Landscapes, Castles, Beach, History, some museums but only a few, Beer and food.

25.08.18- Depart Australia
26.08.18 - barcelona - Land 2pm
27.08.18 - barcelona
28.08.18 - barcelona
29.08.18 - barcelona
30.08.18 - Fly from barcelona to paris
31. 08.18 - Paris
01.09.18 - Paris
02.09.18 - Paris
03.09.18 - Train Paris to Brugee
04.09.18 - Brugee (day tirp Ghent)
05.09.18 - Brugee
06.09.18 - Train to Brussels
07.09.18 - Fly Germany
08.09.18 - Germany
09.09.18 - Germany
10.09.18 - Fly Germany to Krakow
11.09.18 - Krakow
12.09.18 - Krakow
13.09.18 - Fly Krakow to Venice
14.09.18 - Venice
15.09.18 - Venice
16.09.18 - Venice/ Lake Garda Or Alternate go straight to florence
17.09.18 - Lake Garda Or alternate Florence (then add 1 day in Rome and add 1 day in Athens)
18.09.18 - Lake Garda / Florence
19.09.18 - Florence side trip to Pisa
20.09.18 - Florence
21.09.18 - Train Florence to Sorrento
22. 09.18 - Sorrento
23.09.18 - Sorrento (rent car amalfi coast)
24. 09.18 - Sorrento (Pompai day trip with car)
25.09.18 - Sorrento (Capri)
26.09.18 - Train Sorrento to Rome
27.09.18 - Rome (Vatican City)
28.09.18 - Rome
29.09.18 - Rome fly to Greek island (maybe Rhodes)
30.09.18 - Rhodes?
01.10.18 - Rhodes?
02.10.18 - Rhodes?
3.10.18 - Fly to Athens
4.10.18 - Athens
5.10.18 - Athens
6.10.18 - Fly Back to Melbourne

kja

Are you sure you can see and do what you want in this time? It seems quite rushed to me – and I travel HARD! Some examples: Only 3 days in Paris? Only 2 days in Krakow? 2 days for all of Germany? 2 days for Rome? Two months of travel with no real downtime anywhere? Honestly, I think you’ve got at least twice as many destinations as is realistic, but YMMV.

And why would you rent a car for the Amalfi Coast? It certainly isn’t necessary and could be a serious impediment.

Beyond that, I don’t know how we can comment, as you have told us nothing of your interests – which matter!

Good luck!

Jean

For me, too many destinations, not enough time in cities like Paris, Florence, Rome, practically no time in small towns, no "cushion" to accommodate for delays or minor changes in sightseeing plans.

What does "fly to Germany" mean?

I wouldn't rent a car for one day on the Amalfi Coast. I'm not sure what the point would be.

MaryAlex

Why wouldn't you rent a car for the Amafli Coast?

We would be staying in Sorrento and thought driving would be a nice option. What would be the best way to see this area?

janisj

Not counting your arrival and departure days you have 40 days and 14+ destinations. My head would spin. Just because one has a 'lot' of days doesn't mean you have to cram every day full and move all over Europe. 14 destinations (and I'm only counting Germany as one since you don't mention specific places) you will spend fully 8 days (or even a bit more) in transit. You'll be on the move a LOT.

My guess is Germany isn't a big 'must' since you haven't mentioned any destinations there -- perhaps cut it entirely and add those 3.5 days elsewhere. Still too many places IMO.

janisj

didn't see your latest post . . . >>Why wouldn't you rent a car for the Amafli Coast?<<

Because driving on the AC can be a huge hassle.

kja

Right! You can see it by bus or ferry, and actually SEE it, instead of having to spend every moment watching the road and the traffic -- AND you won't have to worry about parking, which can be a serious pain in the area during high season.

Traveler_Nick

Starting at the end. Why Rhodes? End of September direct flights won't be common from Rome. Skyscanner claims Alitalia has a flight the 29th of Sept but Alitalia itself isn't showing it.

Barcelona stay in between Placa Catalunya and the beach. You'll be able to walk to most tourist sites.

Venice is small enough you don't need to be too selective. Closer to the train station will mean less distance to haul your luggage.

Florence also stay in the centre.

Rome the historic centre is bigger but if you stay between the Vatican and the Colouseem area you're still relatively walkable.

For the number of days start planning out sites in each city.

MaryAlex

If we cut out Germany, where would you add the extra days?
I'm guessing you think I should cut out Lake Garda then too?

isabel

Actually I would leave in Lake Garda. For one thing it's one of the few places on your list that isn't a rather major city. You list nature as an interest but there's not a lot of that on your itinerary. Second, it's just a short train ride from Venice and Florence so doesn't add a whole lot of extra travel time. But stay on the northern half of the lake (e.g. Malcesine) even though that will require a boat ride to get to (but that in itself is relaxing).

Definitely do not rent a car for the Amalfi Coast!!!! You are staying in Sorrento which makes sense given you also want to see Pompeii, Capri and Amalfi/Positano. All easily done by public transportation.

The main problem I see with your itinerary is not the number of moves but the number of flights. A flight of any duration (even just an hour) will require most of the day (getting from city center to airport, security and check in times, flight, getting from the second airport to the next city center, etc.). If your destinations are closer together you can just take a train (4 hours or less is usually not so disruptive, trains leave from the center of cities, etc.).

So I would drop Krakow. It's a wonderful city but it's out of the way, and dropping it will allow you to drop two flights - so total of four days saving right there. Look at a map of Europe and you will see. So from Belgium you could train into nearby Germany (Rhine Valley?) and then maybe one more destination between there and Venice. Right now you have 7 days between Belgium and Venice which is a decent amount of time to make your way there stopping in a couple of places in Germany and Austria. It also looks like you have one night in Brussels which is not necessary, just add the night to Brugge and do a day trip.

At the end of the trip, the Greece part. If you choose an island closer to Athens you could take a ferry from it to Athens cutting out yet another flight. Ferry rides are pleasant and relaxing where as a flight is not. Santorini would work. You have four days and two flights for the Greek island portion, with that amount of time you could fly into Santorini for two nights, then ferry half way to Athens and stop in Naxos or Paros for another two nights.

MaryAlex

Krakow is somewhere I have we have our heart set on. We really want to go to the concentration camp Auschwitz. We will have 2 full days and then the half day on the day we arrive.

I do like the idea of Lake Garda, I really want to go. However, it seems difficult to get too. I found researching routes to get there a bit difficult from Venice and was told it would waste a bit of time to get there. How would you recommend getting there? And other than cutting Poland where would I shorten?

My husband did have an interest in Germany and Rhine Valley, but I wasn't too keen. After posting on here and when everyone suggested our plans were too jam packed and rushed, he agreed to cut out Germany.
Adding an extra day in Athens, Paris (5 nights instead of 4) and Belgium (1 more night) to allow a relaxed day in Belgium for down time.

Rhodes is an island my brother has been too. He recommends it bc it is beautiful, has a bit of history like a preserved castle, as well as beaches. He said he was there for a week and could have stayed longer. I will look into the two islands you recommend also.

I'm giving myself the deadline of planning everything Friday next week as I'm too indecisive and need to start booking.

Traveler_Nick

The problem with Rhodes isn't Rhodes. The problem is the end of September you'll find it hard to get to from Italy. Rome to Rhodes is usually a seasonal flight. Problem is the season is often over by mid September.

MaryAlex

Rome to Rhodes just has a small layover in Athens. We wont even need to leave airport. It's not difficult to get too. Rhodes to Athens is a direct flight. It would take similar time to get off at Athens and then take a ferry to another island. If we do that option, what websites would you use to plan a ferry so we could fly to Athens and get a ferry on the same day?

We want to avoid tours and do our trip ourselves

thursdaysd

I have to agree with the others that after a good start this speeds up too much. There is a big difference between rushing a two week trip and rushing a two month one, You need time to chill with a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, to buy toothpaste or check your bank and credit card accounts (get a VPN if you are using wifi) and to allow for snafus. Time is a luxury, enjoy it. (And I should warn you that it took me several days to recover from the emotional impact of visiting Auschwitz.)

I also vote against a car for the Amalfi Coast. Using buses and ferries will allow both of you to enjoy the views, and you will not have to worry about parking. The road is not exactly an easy drive, either.

I would be inclined to drop Belgium rather than the Rhine valley, dropping both would allow you to add days to some of Paris, Krakow, Venice, Rome and Greece. I would keep the Italian Lake District, for good scenery and some down time, but I would pick Lake Como or Lake Maggiore (my preference is for Maggiore with its islands).

This is the site I used to plan my trip to Greece: http://greecetravel.com/

In Barcelona I recommending staying north of the Placa da Catalunya in the Eixample area, much nicer and still convenient. (See: https://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com...s-the-ramblas/ )

PalenQ

Book long-distance train tickets as as it is possible -often up to 3 months or more to get discounted ticket which can sell out early - save tons over full fare- check www.seat61.com for lots on doing that online yourself-general info trains www.bugeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Yes flying Belgium to Germany - to where? Often trains cheaper and quicker except Berlin and Munich, etc.

kja

Many people find it hard to see what they want of lovely Krakow with a visit of 4 or 5 full days.

PalenQ

I spend three days in Krakow and did Auschwitz by train (bus may be better) and Wieliczka Salt Mines just south of town (UNESO WORLD HERITAGE SITE) and saw all I wanted to of Krakow so everyone is different.

ssander

Agree with the crowd...too many places...too many days wasted in transit.

Also, as said, we don't know your interests...but here is a rough suggestion:

Barcelona
Paris
Somewhere in Germany (don't know enough to suggest, but folks I talk to love Berlin)
Krakow (don't know enough to suggest and would not be on my A-list...but since you want to go)
Venice
Rome
Athens

I did not offer number of days in each...that would be based on your interests...but a first trip to these places, I'd devote considerable time to Paris and Rome. Both have tons of things to see and offer a number of great day-trips to add variety.

ss

5alive

Lodgings in Rome--
We've stayed at the Hotel Alimandi Vaticano, and we've had family and friends stay there since. Has A/C. Generally well priced. Smallish rooms. Almost across the street from the entrance to the Vatican Museum. They also have a shuttle service to the airport you can pay for. Hotel Alimandi Vaticano Rome ? OFFICIAL SITE - Accommodation Vatican

There are also many apartments you can rent, and it states if they have A/C. Check booking.com and Homeaway.com in addition to airbnb. My friends were struggling to finish their travel plans when one of the family got sick last spring. So I ended up helping them find a place in Rome. They ended up staying at this one. They really liked it and the A/C was solid. You obviously don't need two bedrooms, but the garden is nice.

https://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p1961754

isabel

You said you want to go to Krakow to visit Auschwitz. If you went to Munich instead of Krakow (as I said, that would cut out 2 flights and is more on a direct route) you could visit Dachau. This article has some information on both of them. https://community.ricksteves.com/tra...entration-camp
I have only been to Auschwitz and while it was a moving and informative experience I wouldn't go all the way to Krakow just for that, especially since there are others which in your case are more convenient. Krakow is a lovely city and I'm glad I visited it, but so are so many other places in Europe.

Re Garda vs another lake such as Como or Maggorie, Garda is more 'on the way' between Venice and Florence than the others. We're only talking a few hour difference but I actually think Garda is my favorite (been to all of them). You would train from Venice to Desenzano. You could just base there and take boats on day trips but the more scenic part of the lake is the northern half. So you would walk (or take a taxi I guess if you have a ton of luggage or mobility issues, but it's a pleasant down hill walk from the train to the boat) to the ferry and take a boat to Malcesine or Limone or Riva. Sirmionie is on the southern half and has a really nice castle but it's gets very crowded with day trippers mid day.