Family ski trip
 

Hello friends! I'm rather perturbed with my family. You don't want to hear the long, drawn out story but I could really use some advise.

Please put your experience and amazing creativity to work helping me find a ski destination in France/Switzerland/Austria that is near a major international airport and can be reached by train within a few hours.

Here is the caveat. My fabulous father, that is a young 79 year old will not be skiing. He has traveled to Europe over 20 times, quite a few of those trips were with me and he loves to walk the streets checking out architecture and the parks, eating good food, drinking some nice wine, hitting the produce markets and window shopping. He is a really laid back traveler and I would love to find a place he could be immersed in a beautiful town with lively cafes, shops, art and music.

It seems from my limited research that the ski areas are in smaller villages and he may have a hard time filling up 3 to 5 days just wandering around and eating. Day trips by train could help if there were larger towns nearby that could offer some diversity.

We are coupling this trip with Paris and it was sprung on me last week to plan it all out. Just add in that this trip is for 6 people of 3 generations during the Christmas holidays. I'm a little annoyed. Please help!

Good luck . . . I can't reallt give the best advice since I haven't skied in the Alps in over 20 years . . . but just a heads up that over the holidays almost every ski area will have a one week minimum and sometimes even a two week minimum.

But there are lots of Alpine and Switzerland experts on Fodors so hopefully someone will have ideas for you

Hi francefling,

Garmisch, Germany, where I live, could be an option. We are about 2h30 from the Munich airport, and the town can keep someone busy exploring both parts for maybe 2 or 3 days, including market days in Garmisch and in Partenkirchen. Nearby are Füssen and its castles, Oberammergau, and Murnau and its lake. Innsbruck is about 1h20 away.

However, Christmas is a bit early for snow good enough/reliable enough for skiing. The Zugspitze usually is open for skiing, but it is 1h20 away from town. The Garmisch Classic ski area may or may not be open, with man-made snow, if it's cold enough. But unfortunately, lately, it's not a sure thing.

For snow-sure skiing at Christmas, you may need to head to a glacier (Zermatt in Switzerland or Stubai glacier outside of Innsbruck), but then we're back to the tiny resorts with not much to do besides skiing, snow-shoeing, or winter hiking.

Best of luck with your search, and have fun while planning!

s

Christmas? I'll echo janisj's "good luck." Lodging availability, somewhere with sufficient snow, and wanting/needing to reach by train... Zermatt? Chamonix? I don't know if either would offer interesting day trips, and the options probably wouldn't be to larger towns.

I have to say we haven't found it appealing to combine a ski trip with a big city trip and haven't done this for many years. For us, it's the luggage. Even if you rent ALL of your ski equipment, just the ski clothing and accessories take up a LOT of luggage space, and then there will be additional/different things you'll want for the Paris days. I can't ski in rented boots (not happily anyway), so I end up with an extra bag to keep track of, usually pay fees for, worry that the airline will lose, etc.

Why has the planning task fallen entirely on you?

Chamonix came to mind. I guess this year no Russian Billionaires and their entourage so it might be ok.

Small village in the mountain with lots to do away from snow??? Nope. Does he like to spa? If so you could head to Northern Finland and just chill out in the spa during the day and dance the night away at night.

The main problem will be the snow.
In the last years, most stations with ski areas below 2000 metres didn't just get enough snow for skiing around Christmas.
Stations with snow guarantee:
Cervinia Breuil, Gressoney, Tignes (Val d?isere), Zermatt, Saas Fee, Kurzras/Maso Corto, Soelden/Hochsoelden.
All these places are at least 2 hrs (OW) away from interesting cities, museums, castles, etc.
Hiking wouldn't be a problem as there are prepared winter hiking trails about everywhere.

Hi again! Wow and thank you! Since you kind people responded with very thoughtful ideas I will give you a brief run down of my dilemma.

Swandav2000, You just reassured me that my original thoughts are correct and I really, really appreciate the snow report. It would be disappointing to make such an effort and not have good snow! Funny you say Innsbruck, if you have the time to read my diatribe below you and I are on the same track. I thought we could fly to Zurich and take the train to Innsbruck but I could not find suitable in town accommodations for 6 unless it was 3 hotel rooms, Dad prefers if we could stay together.

Jean, that was my initial reaction! Dad and I are seasoned European travelers and understand lighter is better!! Especially using the awesome trains! We tried to tell my brother that to no avail. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the planning but I enjoy researching places and love my family so I accepted the challenge!

Bilboburglar, after using google maps I thought Chamonix may work well flying into Munich but it was then I realized it was a small village and my father may not have enough to do. I did find flats in town that accommodated 6 people which was great.

Neckervd, great advise! If they really want to ski having snow would be nice! 2 hour each way day trips sound like a bit of a reach. I am totally willing to forgo skiing (I actually prefer not to even try to fit this in) and just spend time with my dad but 4 hours on a train doesn't give us a lot of time to explore a new town.

Thank you again for your thoughts. I love my fellow Fodorites!!!!!

If you want a bit of back story...well a novel...keep reading, lol (fodorites therapy for me)

It's interesting Swandav2000 brought up Innsbruck, visiting there is actually how this idea started. Since 2005, my father and I have taken a father-daughter trip to Europe every year, minus the covid times. In 2009 my sweet father started another family tradition and takes me, my brother, sister in law, niece and nephew usually in late January skiing out west in the United States for a week. It is our Christmas present from him and time to be together as a family since we all live 6 hours apart.

In 2015, Dad and I took a train trip from Vienna to Salzburg to Innsbruck then on to Zurich and to Paris. At that time the kids were 6 and 5 years old and while we were in Innsbruck my dad mentioned that it would great at some point for the kids to experience traveling and skiing in Europe.
Fast forward to 2023 and the kids are 15 and 14. With them being excellent students it was getting difficult for them to take a week off of school. My father knew the day would come when we would not be able to take the family ski trip. Last year, after our trip to Park City Utah, that became a reality and he was really sad. He really looks forward to being together even if now, due to his age he doesn't ski. 2020 was his last time on the slopes.

2 weeks ago my brother called and said it was impossible for the kids to get out of school in January and if we took a trip it would have to be during 2 1/2 week Christmas holiday. Dad and I agreed. My brother then said since the kids have more time during the holidays why don't we take the kids to Europe! Dad was excited with that idea and due to all of our traveling we knew it would be more expensive and a bit more of a hassle but totally worth it to be together.

Dad and I have had numerous European adventures together so my brother asked me to do the planning. My brother thought Barcelona and Paris would be nice for the kids and they had hosted a French exchange student in the spring that was from Normandy so I if could work in a few days with Lisa that would be great. Dad and I have been to BCN and Pari numerous times and would love the opportunity to share those places with the kids on their first trip as young adults to Europe.

Time is not on our side planning something for the holidays in August! I knew it would take a lot of maneuvering with things being closed on Christmas and trains having limited schedules but I was determined to create a beautiful trip for my family!! As you well know being seasoned travelers, there is never enough time to do everything and moving from place to place takes time away from the adventure. Taking the dates, flights, trains and looking at finding accommodations I quickly knew that there was not enough time to really enjoy each place. I factored in lugging ski clothes around 2 cities where we would not need them and decided skiing was out. Dad agreed, it was too much for one trip.

I did a lot of research, found accommodations in Barcelona and Paris for 6 which was very difficult and created an amazing plan even with holiday closures and I found a way to do a 3 day trip to Normandy for them to visit their exchange student friend. Since I am very close to my father, I made sure there were several things I knew he wanted to do like be in Paris for the New Years Eve fireworks on the Champs-Elysees and made it work in the schedule.

I sent the itinerary to my brother stressing that we needed to jump on the accommodations because of the holidays and amount of people and I got no response. 3 days later he tells me that the kids are expecting to ski and they could cut out Normandy to do so. It made me sad to think they would want to travel to Europe and not make the effort to see Lisa but dad and I agreed that our enthusiasm for experiencing a place with a local resident was different than theirs. Plus, we had spent a week in 2017 driving around Normandy. Loved it and would go back if they wanted to.

Yesterday my brother told my dad skiing was very important to them, even if it was only for 3 days and we could drop Normandy from the trip. I laughed out loud thinking of making that much of an effort to go to the Alps for such a short time. I reminded him we would have to lug all of our ski clothes and rent equipment, which is such a hassle. With dread, I suggested we drop Barcelona and then spend at least 5 days skiing to make the effort worth it and reminded him that dad will not be skiing and we needed to find a place where he would not be bored. Would you believe it! His response was "Oh yea, I didn't think about that." I was livid. I would happily just wander around town eating, drinking and shopping with Dad instead of skiing.

It was at this point my father said if skiing is important to you do the research and lets see what you come up with. My brother seemed annoyed that I was not helping with the skiing part and said he would and would get back to us next week. Dad and I said well if we lose the ability to rent the apartments in Barcelona and Paris which are far and few between for 6 people it would be on him. I was so deflated. After all the effort I pivoted and found an apartment in Steamboat Springs for a week at Christmas and told my brother maybe we just do a short trip in the US since it was such short notice. He shot me down with a "the kids have already been there"

At this point I really feel like I have done my best to accommodate everyone in the party. I especially want my father to have a wonderful trip since this is the first time he has traveled to Europe since the pandemic, he is now 79 and moving well but albeit a bit slower and also paying for the trip. Dad having a good time and sharing with the kids his favorite places in Europe is really my main focus.

I thought you wonderful people would have ideas, helpfully agree or disagree with the planning, give me more ideas out of the box and selfishly, an outlet to post my exasperation.

Whew. If you are still reading this I really appreciate you letting me get this off my chest. All I want is to have a beautiful time with my family but I'm feeling like my brother (who is always in control) is kind of taking advantage of my fathers kindness.

Thank you again my online friends for your advise. Any of it is welcomed!! Love to all, no exceptions.

FYI. Here was my planned trip with no skiing.

Friday Dec 21st ~ Depart IAD @ 18:30 arrive BCN Saturday 22nd@ 11:10am

Sat Dec 22nd ~ Thursday Dec 26th ~ Barcelona. I found out our favorite restaurant is open on Christmas day and contacted them about reservations!

Thurs Dec 26th Travel day to Paris by high speed train.

Fri 27th to Wed Jan 1st ~ Paris

Wed Jan 1st Train to Caen ~ Avis car rental x 2 cars ~ Caen pick up/CDG airport drop off. Europe doesn't have large cars/suv's for 6 so we will have to get 2 cars which works great if you and the family want to spend time with Lisa. Normandy has limited public transportation. Dad and I can cruise around on our own and we can meet back up for dinner.

Thurs 2nd to Sun 5th spend time in Normandy. Drive 3 1/3 hours and return rental cars to the airport

Sunday Jan 5th Depart CDG 16:40 arrive @ Dulles 19:25

I really thought this was a great plan!!

Thanks again for your support and ideas!!

Ugh! I'm out of edit time.

Please correct. Chamonix flying into Geneva and taking the train. I think I found that the train from Zurich was longer than flying into Munich and taking the train to Innsbruck. So sorry, my brain is fried!

Bilboburglar, after using google maps I thought Chamonix may work well flying into Munich but it was then I realized it was a small village and my father may not have enough to do. I did find flats in town that accommodated 6 people which was great.

I like your plan! Or, instead of Barcelona, I might think about starting in Strabourg (busy, busy and fun with the Christmas markets) and then going toward Paris and Normandy. In Normandy you might want to think about hiring a guide for a day’s tour of WWII sites.

I would be interested in seeing what kind of plan your brother devises in the next few days. If the skiing is really non-negotiable for him and his family, let them plan for it, bookending it with time with you and your Dad.

Ooooh k_marie! I like your thinking!! Fly to Geneva, train to Chamonix then train from Geneva to Strasbourg and on to Pari/Normandy perhaps! The Christmas market which the kids have never experienced is amazing in Strasbourg. It has been since 2007 since Dad and I have been there!!! Awesome idea! Keep them coming my friends. You are all so wonderful! Chamonix is a small village but your creativity is giving me inspiration.

And yes, I too am interested in what he will plan. He is pretty clueless and sometimes during our ski trips looks at the price of airfare and doesn't realize we have a 10 hour layover somewhere. I always find the shortest layover or possibly direct flights because it is exhausting traveling and I don't want to wear dad out!

Ok friends. What about flying into Zurich and train to Zermatt? Dad would love the Glacier Express train excursion, that would keep the 2 of us busy for a day! Then train back to Strasbourg for some Christmas festivities!

I'm pretty sure that from the response from my brother they will opt out of Normandy. It's a shame since I think Lisa would love seeing them and taking them around her beautiful countryside. Mont Saint Michel would be fun for the kids, she is in Saint Lo

It doesn't sound like the brother is doing the planning, just setting the parameters. I wouldn't be as patient with him as francefling is being, and I would let the Bank of Dad set the parameters. I would think the window for booking lodging in lots of places is closing, so decisions need to be made asap.

francefling, I can't tell from your posts #8 and #9 what the latest itinerary includes, doesn't include...

Has your brother's family skied at Park City?

OK, now I'm more confused. Would you please restate the itinerary as it stands now?

That might work!
>>This year Strasbourg Christmas Market runs from 27 November to 27 December 2024.

I adore you Jean! Thanks for encouraging me with a backbone. I don't think skiing is for this trip but my brother is very stubborn and I wanted to help with some options since dad and I have traveled to Europe so often and know what we are up against. If I don't at least try to show him it is almost impossible (The luggage thing really bothers me) he will be grumpy.

k_marie planted the Strasbourg idea and dad and I loved it there at Christmas. It would be a wonderful experience for the kids!!! I hope I can make my brother realize skiing is too much for this trip, dad will be bored and spending your time lugging luggage on trains is not a great idea of a vacation. One must sometimes realize for himself that those types of trips stink.

I agree dad is the one calling the shots, I am known as the black sheep of the family so all I can do is know all the possible routes and time and leave it up to my brother.

Thank you again for the effort! Huge hugs to you!

Thank you k_marie!! I really like the Strasbourg option.

yes Jean, the family took our ski trip to Park City last year. We had an amazing time but now the kids can't be out of school for a week and if we want the option to continue the family trip it has to be during the Christmas school break

I'm unclear on what you're currently planning, but why don't you and your father do something in a city for a few days while your brother and his family go skiing? He can plan that piece (and pay for it, IMO).

Oh, Leely, I was thinking that brother should pay for the non-negotiable skiing, too! And he ought do all the planning for that portion of the trip. Maybe then he would understand the work involved in arranging an excellent travel experience and appreciate francefling’s efforts.

Leely2 and k_marie I laughed and really appreciate the sentiment!

The one think I love and despise about travel are all of the options! I really do some digging on the planes and trains to try and make a seamless itinerary.
It is a lot of work but during the trip when your eating a nice meal in a new city it is worth all the effort.

I just put it out in the Fodors land to see what your amazing minds might know. I don't think there will be any itinerary until next week when my brother gets around to realizing things are too complicated but he needs to reach that conclusion on his own. I just wanted to pick your brains for options because I love my family. If it were up to me I would keep the Barcelona/Paris/Normandy trip or go with Strasbourg/Paris/and somewhere else like Lyon, Loire or Champagne region. Dad loves La Sagradia Famila and Gaudi and the cathedral will be finished in a few years. He was there before it had a roof and was consecrated.

Ahh! First world problems planning a Christmas trip to Europe. I wish everyone had the luxury of of this "problem" and wasn't burdened with war, famine and politics. Thank you again and I will be keeping my eye on this thread and letting you know the details of family dynamics if you're interested . xoxoxo

Actually I lied. If it were really up to me I would prefer to just do the family ski trip over Christmas to Steamboat. Easy peasy, cheaper and the kids get to ski. Dad and I have not done a Father/daughter trip since before covid when we spent over a month traveling to Barcelona, Sicily for 3 weeks and a short trip to Paris in November of 2019. We are both single and pretty much best friends so we always travel in the off season where things are less expensive with less crowds so we can spend more time together having fun.

With the planning of this family trip, since it is so expensive during the holidays, I'm sacrificing my first post covid father/daughter trip. I was totally ok with that because I really would love my niece and nephew to experience Europe with dad but my brothers stubbornness is really getting to me. It's always harder traveling with numerous people so I just need to step back and be grateful dad want to spend time with us and leave the ski itinerary to my brother and the travel gods and goddesses. lol

Explain global warming to your brother. Explain many ski resorts have closed permanently due to lack of snow, that December is really too early for skiing.

Of course if you convince him there will be no snow you can almost guarantee there will be a ton of it this year, but the chances are low.

You are planning, your Dad is paying so either he ponies up for the skiing diversion, maybe taking the kids on his own while you and your Dad do your own thing for a couple of days, or he shuts up and enjoys the trip you and your father have planned.

hetismij2 You are my new favorite friend! Thanks for the wake up post! lol

IF you are skiers, you should know that ski resorts are not in towns/cities with lots to do. They just aren't. And that is one of the most expensive times of the year at ski resorts, and it will be super crowded. Because even if not good snow, some people want to take Christmas vacation at ski resorts, go figure, even though it is crowded and costs more. Kids are out of school, also, of course. I wouldn't do it in the US either due to poor snow and crowds/cost. The only place with a ski resort I can think of with more to do, sort of, in the US is Aspen, which is a real town. Even there, I can't imagine what I'd do for days if I didn't ski. I don't think of Salt Lake City as very exciting myself, although I've been there numerous times for skiing.

Yes, ski resorts are in smaller villages. I was in Verbier once for a couple days but it's just a ski village. Kitzbuhel isn't too far from Munich but it's not large, either. YOu can get to Verbier from Montreux in less than two hours, though. It's only about 45 miles. You take the train to Martigny which is only about a half hour. Then a local train to Le Chable, and from there a cable car which is kind of fun, actually. https://verbier4vallees.ch/en/online..._ticket_338454

So if you stayed in MOntreux, someone could go skiing for the day if they really wanted. You can rent skis at this shop which is right near the lifts.
https://www.no1sports.com/
You can store them there overnight, also, they have lockers where you can store your equipment.

Actually, the train to Martigny is less than an hour from Lausanne, also.

This website claims the avg base is only 13 inches in December at Verbier, though (33 cm). Of course it's 3x that at the summit.

https://www.onthesnow.co.uk/valais/v...rical-snowfall

It would take too much time to comment all that was written above.
Just a few points:

it's easier to reach INNSBRUCK from MUC than from ZRH.
Innsbruck has it's own ski area (Nordkette) and the ski area of Stubaital (Fulpmes) nearby.
Even if there is no snow around Fulpmes and Neustift, skiing will most probably be posible on the glaciers above.
There are tons of lifts and gondolas in the area.
https://www.stubaier-gletscher.com/en/winter/
The train ride from Innsbruck to Fulpmes takes just 30 minutes.
The bus ride from Fulpmes to the glacier gondolas takes 45 minutes
ACCOMMODATIOON in the area: https://www.airbnb.ch/s/Fulpmes--Aus...ch_by_map=true
https://www.booking.com/searchresult...d_currency=USD

It would take too much time to comment all that was written above.
Just a few points:

If you want to ski at SAAS GRUND/SAAS FEE or Zermatt
https://www.saas-fee.ch/en/winter-activities
you may stay at Visp or Brig-Glis-Naters
From there it's
about 1hr by bus to Saas Grund and Saas Fee
about 1hr by train to Thun and Berne
45 min by train to Domodossola (scenic Italian city)
30 min by train to Sion (historic city)
45 min by train to Martigny (roman excavations and museums)
1 1/4 hr by train to Montreux/Lake Geneva

ACCOMMODATION
https://www.booking.com/hotel/ch/vis...ened-auto_open
https://www.airbnb.ch/s/Visp--Switze...ch_by_map=true

CHRISTMAS MARKETS
Don't forget MONTREUX
https://www.montreuxnoel.com/en-1-homepage.html

PARIS - CHAMONIX
The rtain ride is faster than the flight (door to door)

But as I told you above, TIGNES would be the better choice (there will be snow for sure) and the train/bus ride from Paris isn't much longer
Paris dp 9.46 - Tignes ar 17.15

Chamonix is probably the best ski destination for a non-skier because it's a proper old mountain town with tons of alpine history:
- visit the Alpine Museum for all things climbing and skiing related
- the Crystal Museum to see the first tourists to the alps (the Victorian's going crystal hunting)
- take the fabulous old Montenvers rack and pinion railway (cog railway) up to
- the Mer de Glace (sea of ice) glacier where you can actually go inside!
- view the summit of Mont Blanc from the lovely old town center or take the the cable car up to
- the Aiguille du Midi where you''l be short of breath at almost 4,000m high

And skiers/boarders needn't worry about the relatively low 1000m altitude of the town because the Grands Montet reaches well over 3,000m at the top lift and, alongside incredible groomers, also has some of the world's very best lift-served off-piste skiing.
Top tip for cruisy skiers - enjoy a gloriously sunny day up the valley in Le Tour where the reds are like fast blues.