Family European winter holiday
 

Hi I need some help planning an itinerary for 3 families travelling to Europe for 6 weeks in 2014. Where is the best place to stay for Christmas and New Years. And what other destinations would be recommended. We are trying to avoid Paris and London for Christmas and New Years because it is quite expensive this time of year. But saying that I am open to suggestions if someone knows of cheap alternatives.

The youngest child is 12 and the eldest 16.

Thanks for your help.

Little possum, welcome to Fodor's. You'll get lots of help here, but first we need to know a little bit more about your interests etc. do you prefer cities or the countryside, museums or cafés. That sort of thing. I think from the countries you have tagged that perhaps you'd like to see snow? Do you plan on hiring cars or using trains?

Anyway, come back with a bit more info and I'm sure the kind folks here will help.

Ditto cathies remarks. Without interests, or a definition of what you think 'best place to stay' means, there is no info on which to base suggestions.

What you may get is OTHER people's ideas of what THEY like and want to post about, with no regard for what YOU might like.

You might want to consider places with Christmas Markets for example like Strasbourg and Basel. But how would we know if that interested you or not? Here is one of MY personal favourite areas for Christmas. https://www.google.ca/search?q=alsac...w=1280&bih=687

Read here: http://noel.tourisme-alsace.com/en/w...as-mean-alsace

WHOA--you want plans for THIS Christmas for 2014--or NEXT Christmas, therefore 2015 also? If this Christmas, that train may have already left the station!!
I guess since you bring up "expensive" we might need to know your idea of "budget". I'd guess that many places in the mountains of Switzerland and Italy are expensive most of the winter for skiing.
And you speak of Christmas and New Year's, but what are the dates of your trip--beginning then, straddling that, etc.
I would think many places would be very magical for Christmas--with my name I think Germany!! And if you plan ahead Paris doesn't have to be expensive any time of the year.

Apartments might work better for you than hotels - save money and nice for families. Recently, i have used airbnb with good luck and, verbo in the past, also with success.

Really, if it's THIS COMING Christmas, the bus has left. If it's next year (let's hope), you've got ample time to hunker down and start researching. Your request is far too broad and nebulous - Europe is a huge place and you haven't done any winnowing down or explaining precisely what you're looking to do and see, or a budget. Guidebooks and maps are the place to start. BTW, if you're avoiding Paris and London because of costs, wait until you get wind of prices in Switzerland!

Really need to know how many people total. What your lodging budget is for how many rooms or apts of 2 - or more - people each - you need to specify.

Also - agree to need to tell us are you intersted in winter sports? Or cities/museums/culture? Or????

And agree that I hope this is for Christmas 2014 - since trying to plan for a group this size in the next couple of days would be a nightmare?

I think three families traveling together probably don't want to stay all in the same apartment. I know life-long friendships that have been destroyed by too much togetherness on vacation. I think you have to allow for each family to carve out private time. This may mean a combination of hotels and apartments.

I really prefer hotels myself, but when traveling with a family group, we often choose apartments. However, I've never traveled with anyone for six weeks. I think that a six-week holiday might bring even my husband and me to the brink.

Our family (six people) is meeting in London for Christmas this year; it's something I've wanted to do for a long time. I'll let you know how it goes. One problem with London is that there is no public transportation at all on Christmas Day, so you have to stay in a fairly central location.

I know lots of people who have enjoyed Rome at Christmas; I live in Italy, but I've never gone to Rome for Christmas. When the family comes here, we spend the holidays at home.

Relatives of ours always go to ski areas in northern Italy or Austria or southern France for the Christmas holidays. I don't think they've ever gone to Switzerland, which maybe tends more to the expensive kind of resort than the other countries do. Not all ski resorts are very expensive; some are within the reach of the average family. Many have nice activities for kids, including sleigh rides and snow playgrounds. I don't know if English is widely spoken at these more affordable resorts, but I could find out.

Thanks everyone for your replies. Being my first time on the foders site I didnt know how much information was needed. I obviously needed more.

We are looking at Christmas 2014 departing Australia on 12th December and returning around the 23rd January 2015. Three families travelling together. Ages range from 11 to 16.

We would like to see snow, so skiing and also Christmas markets are a must. Having never been to Europe we want to go to the major tourist destinations (London, Paris, Germany, Italy).

Not sure about transport getting from place to place. Driving might be out due to driving in snowy conditions. Train might be the way to go. Open to suggestions here.

For Christmas day we want to stay a town where there are fabulous markets.

Hope this helps

Thanks

Thanks for the added information littlepossum, just a few points to get the ball rolling:

1. Christmas Markets are not open on Christmas Day. Depending on where you are, some finish up on 23 Dec or by 2pm on 24 December. Others go through until 6 January, but are not open on Christmas Day. In fact you'll find very little open on Christmas Day, apart from restaurants (some), public transport (not in London) and the odd 7-Eleven (!).

2. Munich comes to mind as a place to stay for your families in the lead up to Christmas (say from 20th) and over Christmas. It has fabulous Christmas Markets, choices of accommodation(apartments, hotels, etc), sightseeing (museums, markets, shopping, historical sights) and access to nearby ski areas in Germany and Austria.

3. Skiing in Europe in the areas you're looking at isn't cheap, so keep that in mind. Perhaps you could have Christmas in Munich and time around NYE in the ski fields. Look at places in the Tirol/Tyrol in Austria, or even Garmisch-Partenkirchen in Germany (just on the border with Austria). The villages are picture-perfect, have different degrees of slopes for differing skill levels and for those who don't ski there are many other options.

4. Not sure where you are looking at in Germany and Italy, but look at open-jaw tickets if you can. That is, fly in to one place and out of another (eg in to London, out of Rome). You will also find that you can likely only hit one place per country (UK - London, France - Paris, Germany - Munich, Italy - Rome or Venice) in the time you have.) with a few day trips here and there.

5. Depending on the final route you choose, you may find flying between major destinations (except if you do the London-Paris route, then train) the best option. Trains for smaller journeys (eg day trips, short distances) will work, but again this will depend on the final cities you choose.

Once you have more of an idea the cities you want to stay in, it will be easier for everyone to give more advice to assist your planning.

On Christmas Day the markets won;t be open. Really nothing will be open on Christmas Day itself - except hotels and their restaurants.

Really need to know how many people total. (In europe the usual room has one double bed - so how many rooms do you want? Do you want family rooms with kids in the same rooms as parents? Or are you going to put kids in separate rooms? How many rooms for how many people and what budget per room?)

Hi littlepossum - lucky you planning to spend Christmas 2014 in Europe!

Have a look at this trip report - an Australian writer and spent a Christmas doing some of the sorts of things you seem to be looking at.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rs-5-weeks.cfm

Her planning is also fantastic and reading some other entries might also help.
Lots of good advice on this forum - so do some searching as well to see what is possible.
A snow Christmas with our adult family is still on our wish list - so all the best with your planning.

Still not enough information to begin getting any realistic suggestions.

How many people?
What kind of accommodation do you prefer?
What budget do you have to work with?
More about interests? Just saying skiing and markets is not enough to fill your time with.

I get annoyed at people who continually insist Switzerland is expensive. That was true in the past but not today. It is no more expensive than the UK for example.

Sure if you want to rent a deluxe chalet in St. Moritz or Zermatt it will be expensive. Try renting a deluxe hotel in London though and compare APPLES TO APPLES.

It is quite feasible to find a chalet to rent in say Betmeralp for a great skiing week, just as easily and at a similar price as in France or Italy or Austria. Not everywhere in Switzerland is St. Moritz.

One piece of advice that I think is relative at this early stage is not to plan too many moves. The more you move the less time you spend IN places but perhaps an even greater reason to limit moves is the size of your group. The more people the more hassle moving becomes.

Meant to add that with 6 weeks I would try to stick to 6 places for a week each. Even that might be too much moving with a group.

Keep in mind that during the European Christmas holidays, many places in ski resorts will want you to stay for one week at least. And it is expensive. Better do the ski trip after schools have started again, much cheaper and easier to book.

We have 6 Adults and 8 kids in the group. Moderate accommodation, maybe holiday houses. I am open to suggestions about transport. Trains may be nice for scenery, but happy to fly if cheaper.
This is the plan so far

Fly to London 5 nights
Ireland 2 nights
Berlin 3 nights
Salzburg 2 nights
Vienna for Christmas 4 nights
Innsbruck?
Venice for New Years Eve 4 nights
Rome 5 nights
Florence/Pisa 4 nights
Monaco 2 nights
Switzerland?4 night
Paris and surrounds 7 nights

Are we pushing it?? Any suggestions?

You have too many short stops for such a large group. It takes a lot of time to move from place to pIace. I would skip Monoco (it is a big, expensive snooze) and fly directly from Pisa to Paris. If you plan to go to Switzerland, go before or after Austria. Skip Ireland if you only have 2 days. I shouldn't think it would be very pleasant in December. As someone above recommended, try to keep your stops to 6 major bases with day trips except, perhaps for Italy. Do a LOT of research to choose the places you really want to stay. Happy planning.

No doubt other posters will comment on this too, but Monaco? Choose Nice instead. And still, 2 nights doesn't give you much time if you take away traveling time. I would add those two days to another destination, much as I love Nice.

Same for Ireland; are you flying there from London, spend 2 nights and then on to Berlin for 3 nights? That's a lot of travel for, in the end, just a day in Ireland.

You're quite a large group, every time you travel it takes up at least half a day, probably more. And it's expensive.

Littlepossum, let me put this as diplomatically as I am capable off. You are headed for a DISASTER.

Fourteen individuals with varying interests together for 6 weeks and looking at visiting 11 places. First, it will be a logistical nightmare and second, you can pretty much be guaranteed that there well be some serious tensions if not outright 'falling out' that will occur.

I suggest you take a step back and start by thinking about group behaviour. Here is a place to start: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43729496/

Most important, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, take on the role of being the ONE person who is doing the planning. I would suggest that ALL decisions made before departure should be shared with at least one member from each of the 3 families. If YOU are the ONE responsible, YOU will be the ONE blamed when things go wrong and they WILL go wrong.

The good news is you have time and have started by coming to a travel forum and asking for advice. So here's one piece of postive advice I can offer you. As a group of 14 you will no doubt qualify for group discounts for some things. Airfares, entrance fees, etc.

Regarding your actual plan as stated, there are too many moves. Each move will be a logistical nightmare.

Good advice above LittlePossum. If you are looking for skiing then I'd look at Austria (valley around Zell-Am-Zee is low cost with villas for rent or even Slovenia up against the Austrian border. You can go into the Italian Tirol as well.

Far too many moves for a bunch of people, note with that many people someone is going to get ill and bad tempered. While one apartment may sound good you might prefer to keep the bugs down in two.

Fly to London 5 nights
Ireland 2 nights (in winter drop this) 0
Berlin 3 nights-4
Salzburg 2 nights-4
Vienna for Christmas 4 nights
Zell-am-Zee 6
Venice for New Years Eve 4 nights
Rome 5 nights
Florence/Pisa 4 nights
Monaco 2 nights (drop this no one in their right mind goes here unless they want to hide money)0
Switzerland?4 night (I'd drop this and add the days somewhere else. If you stay in a city it is expensive and Austria or France has better skiing)
Paris and surrounds 7 nights

So I've saved you 8 nights and added back in 6 nights

You are talking <u>fourteen</u> people. Your preliminary plan would be difficult w/ a couple, let alone <B>Fourteen</B>!

All that moving will be next to impossible. And some make no sense. >>Ireland 2 nights<< will net you a grand total of 1 full day somewhere in Ireland - presumably Dublin. Heck, 14 people won't even all learn where their hotel is in one day.

There are few holiday rentals that sleep 14 - though there are some. You would do better to stay 6 places 1 week each - and rent either very large lodges/houses, multiple apartments in the same bldg/complex, or hotels.

All the travel/logistics gets exponentially more difficult the more people, wider the age gaps. Everyone wil be on different body clocks. Some will want to run/run/run and som will need to sleep in now and then.

I've taken as many as 13 and when I take that large a group i simplify, simplify, simplify. One trip for instance was one week in London in rented flats and one week in the countryside in a rented manor house. But that wasn't over Christmas, in the dead of winter w/ the short days and possibly nasty weather.

I get where you are coming from, literally. It costs a fortune to travel from Australia to Europe and there is a tendency to try to cram in as much as possible, BUT!!

You've received really good advice here about how 'less is more'. If it was me, I'd be out if my mind in no time at all with the frustration if having to pack up my family every few days and be on the move again.

I wouldn't bother with Monaco/Nice at all. Our Australian beaches are just as good if not better.

Unless you plan this very, very carefully you may find that some of you aren't friends any more by the time you get home. 6 weeks is a long time to all be together. Have you considered travelling together for 3 weeks and then splitting up for the remaining 3 weeks?

We've travelled in a group of 9 adults and no kids for about 2 weeks and that was plenty. There's one guy in that group who I won't travel with again unless it's a 'fly and flop' holiday to the beach. He contributed nothing to the planning but moaned every day about what had been planned. It wore very thin after a while.

I'm giving you lots of brownie points for all the planning you are doing, but it's time to back peddle a bit. I'd book 5/6 nights minimum everywhere you go with a day trip thrown in. And some of the time I'd book hotels rather than apartments so you can all get away from each other occasionally.

I've read a lot of comments that this is going to be hard or we are heading for a "DISASTER", I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but we have all travelled in groups before and realise there needs to be a bit of give and take.
I really am after advise on the itinerary and is it workable or I would skip that place and definitely go here! It is a work in progress and having never been to Europe before I really value your advise. So thank you Cathies & Bilboburgler.

Skip Monaco and skip Ireland, for starters.

>>I really am after advise on the itinerary and is it workable or I would skip that place and definitely go here! It is a work in progress and having never been to Europe before I really value your advise. <<

You haven't been there and everyone trying to help you either has been there many times or actually lives there. As it is your itinerary is totally unworkable IMHO . . .

If you read the comments -- they don't say going to Europe will be a disaster, but that all the moving around so much likely will be. Especially in the cold/wet/<u>short</u> days of a European winter.

No reason at all to go to Monaco - especially in January. Ireland makes no sense unless you want to spend several days (and the scenic bits on the west coast won't be great in January).

I would plan on a minimum of 4 nights in any one place and more in the big cities.

The DISASTER is in the logistics of your itinerary littlepossum.

I think cathies probably got it right when writing, "there is a tendency to try to cram in as much as possible"

That appears to be where you are coming from in your thinking. The assumption in that is the belief that the word 'much' is syonymous with the word 'many'. But they are not synonymous and the way to see/do as MUCH as possible is to spend time IN places not in BETWEEN places. Hence the suggestions to cut it down to 6 places for a week each or something near that.

No one can 'see Europe', in 6 weeks or 6 months. Drop 'Europe' from your vocabulary. Instead decide on 6 or so places and then say, ' Hi I need some help planning an itinerary for 3 families travelling to 6 places for 6 weeks in 2014.' It's not about semantics, it's about a different mindset.

In travel, less is always more. The less you move the more you see/do. In the case of your group, it becomes even more important from the point of the sheer hassle of moving 14 people again and again.

The DISASTER is in the logistics of your itinerary littlepossum.

I think cathies probably got it right when writing, "there is a tendency to try to cram in as much as possible"

That appears to be where you are coming from in your thinking. The assumption in that is the belief that the word 'much' is syonymous with the word 'many'. But they are not synonymous and the way to see/do as MUCH as possible is to spend time IN places not in BETWEEN places. Hence the suggestions to cut it down to 6 places for a week each or something near that.

No one can 'see Europe', in 6 weeks or 6 months. Drop 'Europe' from your vocabulary. Instead decide on 6 or so places and then say, ' Hi I need some help planning an itinerary for 3 families travelling to 6 places for 6 weeks in 2014.' It's not about semantics, it's about a different mindset.

In travel, less is always more. The less you move the more you see/do. In the case of your group, it becomes even more important from the point of the sheer hassle of moving 14 people again and again.

Oops, this site hiccuped yet again.

OK, here is how I would personally approach this nightmare littlepossum.

I would want to simplify things as much as possible to begin with. So 6 weeks, 6 stops.

A group booking in a hotel in London for week one. Each morning breakfast at 8am to discuss the days plans. Each individual can say what they want to do for the day and others are free to join them or do their own thing. Anyone not wanting to meet for breakfast is obviously on their own for the day. No hassles.

Week two a group hotel booking in Paris. Same procedure as in London.

Week three, rent 3 chalets in any of the villages in the Bernese Oberland of Switzerland. Pick a village on the train lines. For those who are not into skiing as much, give them the website for Swissrail's rail passes and suggest they arrange to buy a pass. You can day trip to most of Switzerland easily enough. A day in Montreux, a day in Bern, a day in Lucerne, etc. if that's what someone wants to do.

No breakfast meetings obviously, maybe a pre-dinner meeting in one chalet each day to discuss tomorrow's plans.

Week four, Salzburg region similar plan to Switzerland.

Week five, Venice and Florence split 3/4 either way. Hotels and breakfast meetings.

Week six, Rome, hotels and breakfast meetings.

Fly home from Rome.

Oops, this site hiccuped yet again.

OK, here is how I would personally approach this nightmare littlepossum.

I would want to simplify things as much as possible to begin with. So 6 weeks, 6 stops.

A group booking in a hotel in London for week one. Each morning breakfast at 8am to discuss the days plans. Each individual can say what they want to do for the day and others are free to join them or do their own thing. Anyone not wanting to meet for breakfast is obviously on their own for the day. No hassles.

Week two a group hotel booking in Paris. Same procedure as in London.

Week three, rent 3 chalets in any of the villages in the Bernese Oberland of Switzerland. Pick a village on the train lines. For those who are not into skiing as much, give them the website for Swissrail's rail passes and suggest they arrange to buy a pass. You can day trip to most of Switzerland easily enough. A day in Montreux, a day in Bern, a day in Lucerne, etc. if that's what someone wants to do.

No breakfast meetings obviously, maybe a pre-dinner meeting in one chalet each day to discuss tomorrow's plans.

Week four, Salzburg region similar plan to Switzerland.

Week five, Venice and Florence split 3/4 either way. Hotels and breakfast meetings.

Week six, Rome, hotels and breakfast meetings.

Fly home from Rome.

Keeps double posting.

If you need information about family trip in Switzerland I can suggest you to visit the following website http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/family.html
you can find suggestions, offers, etc.

About how to visit Switzerland in 3, 5 or 10 days check on the same website http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/t...ng-around.html

Little Possum -

Sorry - but your itinerary is extremely ambitious - and doesn't take in the difficulties of moving so many people around - esp in mid winter when weather may shut airports, delay trains and make driving impossible for a day or more. With your itinerary one day off will create chaos.

Also "moderate" for hotels or apts means nothing. Do you want to spend 200 euros per night for a double room and put kids in another for 200 euros? Are you looking for family rooms that will hold 4 people? and at what price?

I think a week at a time is plenty of moving and lets you use apts - which will save on food (at least breakfast and snacks) as well as give you more room and privacy than stuffing 4 full-size people in one small hotel room. And do expect hotel rooms to be small unless you are going for luxury places or upgraded rooms - way increasing your budget.

As for skiing in Switz - a great idea. But - do run the numbers so you know the budget up front and it isn't a surprise - not only lodging but renting equipment, paying for lessons, lift tickets, etc.