jsmith

Condescending is a lovely word to describe some of the postings to this thread.

cigalechanta

Anon, I don't think some of us have the luxury of a home to exchange in a desireable neighborhood. I'm in a multi cultural sometimes drug busts area and not clean streets that I doubht someone would want to exchange.

StCirq

I don't think money has much to do with experiencing the culture. In fact, if I had the opportunity to counsel Rick Steves on this topic, I'd suggest to him that learning to speak another language or two well enough to converse with some Europeans would go a lot farther toward thinning the walls than spending less money would.

rex

Yes, I am about to say that the whole premise is largely unfounded too... I did genuinely mean that I find that some superficial small talk with the proprietor occurs in little mom-n-pop places, but it is of such little consequence. It does make for some change of pace that would not does not occur for me in more "chain" type accommodations. I find that I generally do NOT talk to other travelers in the breakfast room - - I figure they are travelers too, whether for business or "on holiday" and their thoughts are concentrated on what lies ahead in their own day. By contrast, my MIL can/will strike up a conversation with the next person sitting by her.. whether it's on a plane to Seattle, or Munich, or on the "tube" or in a hospital waiting room.

I think there is some hypocrisy,, and some of what COULD be truth in the Rick Steves notion that you get some "added cultural dimension" when you stay in places or eat in resturants where the proprietors have not bothered (or needed) to learn much English. But then his shows always "display" people who meet him 95% of the way in his minimal efforts to have learned any of their language(s).

Me, I like the chance to practice and try to avoid "conversing" in English, but I do not deceive myself into thinking that I carry on any "deep" conversations that any great new dimension to THEIR day!

If you want to engage in the lives of locals, get invloved in an exchange program for students in your community, and go as a participant(and/or interpreter, if you have those skills). My one true "brush" with real French life came during three weeks in the home of an ordinary family in Normandy in 1999, while I was (half) responsible for 11 fifth graders - - who in turn were in the homes of 11 separate families, with www.AFAC.org

suze

I don't look for a culture experience from my hotel. Having said that... I prefer non-chain, family-run smaller local places when possible. That's simply because I'm more comfortable there. I don't care for high-end places because they seem so uptight and "adult" to me.

WillTravel

This idea comes from Arthur Frommer, I think, who influenced Rick Steves. I read Frommer's $5/day book when I was a kid (my parents had it laying around and it was old even then). I remember very well that Frommer wrote that Americans go to Europe and stay in American hotels, go to American restaurants, and never interact with the locals. The idea was that by going to Frommer's suggested hotels with bathrooms down the hall you would indeed meet other Europeans on their own turf.

I think the prosperity gap between Europeans and Americans has narrowed since then, and I don't think there is such a stark distinction between American and European hotels.

gualalalisa

JonJon: Part of the fun of living in a small town that is also a world-popular tourist destination is, yes, I do talk to people from out-of-town in our little market and our local bar all the time!

Sometimes I intitiate the conversation and sometiems they do and I've never had a bad experience. Since living here, I've met and socialized with travelers from Italy, South Africa, France, England, Turkey, Germany, Sweden, Scotland, Argentina, Australia, New Zealand and, most recently, Japan. Several of these people ended up being stranded and stayed at our house - it was really fun for us and they certainly learned a lot about American culture - our huse is a srhine to baseball and American football.

Anyway, like WillTravel's daughter, I always chat people up wherever I am. Though I tend to stay in upscale places because I like the services and accomodations, I get out and about, eat in less expensive restaurants or go to local sports events - both great places to meet the locals.

Having money has nothing to do with it. It's about what kind of person you are.

crazymina

It's just one of the factors, but not the only factor in my opinion. When I went to Europe the first time, I went to big cities like Paris and London with a gaggle of girls. I didn't meet too many locals. The second time I went alone and stayed in B&Bs (this was to Ireland) and that was a hoot. Then I went to Europe for months alone with a backpack...and that was in a class by itself. Wear a backpack in countries like Croatia or Greece and locals are all over you because they want to make a little money renting out rooms in their home. That was definitely a fun, "jump in the lake" kind of experience. And I talked to so many Europeans at train stations because of that backpack...they just knew I was traveling and chatted to pass time (usually single travelers themselves).

But obviously from the posts above, not everyone wants to go to a country without decent lodging organized. My formula for getting immersed in local culture is:

1. Travel alone (works for me...definitely have to go out of my comfort zone)
2. Study before you go (languages, etc)
3. Stay in smaller places...feels more homey and easier to meet people.
4. Don't eat at restaurants in the main squares
5. Try to go during off season. Shopkeepers, etc seem to be less frazzled and have more time to chat. I find out all kinds of interesting info and helpful hints this way.

I've traveled while spending money and not spending much money. To me, it doesn't make a huge difference...I don't go with the attitude that I MUST feel like I experienced the local culture. I go to have a great time, and it usually works out that I get both.

RickGib

We have stayed in range of hotels around the world (including 5 star hotels), and we conclude that Rick Steve's has it right. We have used Rick Steve's books for several European adventures, and really feel his recommended hotels enriched our experiences. Some of the responses sent to this site imply Rick Steve's books recommend only a narrow range of hotel choices. Look closer, his books recommend a range of choices, including higher end options. We have found the middle range choices work best for us. These hotels do not feel like corporate American luxury hotels, are usually charming, and are never stuffy. If you need some attitude and distance from the culture, then ignore Rick Steves.

Anonymous

ciga, don't underestimate the appeal of your Cabridge location. Unless there's a crack house on your block, you'll find that your location far outweighs your specific accommodations for most home exchangers. They'd rather be in a modest place in Cambridge than the finest home in East Overshoe, Nebraska. And many exchangers, like you, are concerned that their homes aren't grand enough; I thought that, too, until I got my offer!

Russ

Rick is basically right. If you go to more expensive hotels, they are often designed to appeal to a broader range of people; this often means more generic surroundings that won't seem as culture-specific. The staff is trained to speak your language, to accommodate you in a more international fashion, to behave less idiosyncratically and more "professionally", as a rule. An owner-operated B&B or small pension puts you in touch with people who are more tied to their town and their culture and who often run their places for visitors from their own countries. They aren't just showing up to work and getting a paycheck, but have invested themselves in their operation, and they are more likely to want to interact with you rather than respect your privacy. And most pensions are much smaller than the expensive places you might stay, so you're much more likely to talk to the people in charge. Such places are more personal, more authentic, and more unique to the culture you are visiting, in my experience.

missypie

My husband's uncle is very wealthy. We were comparing notes on recent trips to Paris. Them: "It was awful. None of the 5 star restaurants would give us reservations once they found out we were American. We had a terrible time finding a cab to take us out to Versailles." Us: "We loved the hot crepes off the street. We took the train to Versailles and it was a piece of cake."

marcy_

Thanks to all of you for the interesting analysis of this question, and for your suggestions.
I have to agree that interacting with the local people has more to do with one's attitude, effort, and language skills than with the price of the accommodations.
Staying in smaller places or B & B's could make it a little easier, too.

I would love to do a home exchange, but our average mid-western city is not on most international tourists' top 10 list. At some point, though, I think it would be great to rent an apartment or house and stay in one place for long enough to feel like it's not just a vacation, but more like "living there".

I didn't mean to knock Rick Steves' books, I do use them as a reference regularly, but I have had mixed experiences with his recommendations for accommodations, so I don't use them very often.

Examining what one wants out of a travel experience from time to time is a good idea, though. You're a lot more likely to have a satisfying experience if you know what your goals are beyond just seeing the sights, and actively work to make it happen.

I highly recommend a fascinating and thought-provoking book about what motivates us to travel. It's The Art of Travel, by Allain de Botton.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Sue_xx_yy

I am a great fan of Steves the travel logistician (his 'daily reminder' about museum opening hours is often worth the price of the book). However, I disagree (sometimes strongly) with Steves the cultural observer.

In most cultures, it is a far greater sin NOT to spend money than to spend it, when this involves practices of dubious ethics (e.g. cheating public transit systems out of fares, or nickle-and-diming the locals out of even a cheap pension/hostel stay by sleeping in the train station.)On that note, I don't accept that any country owes anyone a vacation for less than fair market value simply because said individual chooses to call it a 'cultural growth experience' and not a vacation.

Indeed, far from building a wall between me and the locals, the latter have always been very happy to have me spend my money - such as it is - especially if I do so at their tabacchi/epicerie/pension/lavanderie whatever. Every tourist puts a strain on local resources, so my contributing to the economy is a fair exchange. I do acknowledge that one must not seem to be throwing money around, else risk looking arrogant.

Steves is a marketing genius - he understands how to make necessity look like a virtue. I could quite easily learn to like small luxury hotels, where I'm sure the owner would be just as involved with the patrons; however, since 2 star is what we can afford, t'is best if I don't start getting ideas above my pocketbook, if not my station.

As for what is an authentic cultural experience, I wouldn't turn down a chance to chat with Luciano Pavarotti - even if it was in the lobby of one of those boring sterile hotels....

uhoh_busted

I travel for business often enough that I stay in pretty luxurious places (e.g., Bellagio in Vegas, the W in SF, Niko in Beverly Hills and of course lots of Marriotts, Hiltons and Doubletrees.) When it's "our buck" we prefer to stay someplace simpler and spend our money seeing and doing things we want to see and do and eating in wonderful places. So. Rick Steves' is good for helping find places to do your laundry while you are off exploring, and some of his restaurants and hotel recs are fine OFF SEASON when the mobs of PBS viewers are not vacationing. Use his philosophy in finding a place to stay though (smaller, family run) and you will do well. They will also steer you to local restaurants, entertainment, etc. SO I fall into the category that prefers smaller 2, 3 star hotels on vacation. I will splurge once in a while (like we're going on safari in Botswana in May and spending WAY more than we would in Europe but wow. Romance is in the details on a trip like that!) NOT that romance isn't also just as likely in a 2 star comfy hotel in Paris as in a 5-star place. Frankly, I'd rather have the plush hotels on business when I haven't much choice about the people I'm traveling with. But when it's my beloved baby and me on the road on vacation--- romance can be anywhere so why waste the $ on down pillows and marble bathrooms with heated towl racks. On vacation, I'd rather spend the $$$ on dinner than my bedding! ('cause the guy I'm with is who makes it romantic to me. We've made it through lots so we can enjoy our vacations!)

cigalechanta

marcy, I have that book, and it is now on sale folks.

djkbooks

In my experience, it doesn't matter much where you sleep, since we're only in the room to sleep and get dressed for the day.

It's the out and about that matters.

For sure, we've found friendlier and more open folks in the neighborhood restaurants and sidewalk cafes than in those temples of haute cuisine. The fancy hotels are typically located in "business" districts.

And, we've had way more fun with locals on the buses (better than the subways), than traveling by private limo from here to there all by ourselves (which we've never done).

I've found that most folks in the hotels and restaurants of the fancier hotels we've wandered into do not care to mingle.

isabel

I don't think it's so much about the actual cost of the hotel room. But many of the more expensive 4 and 5 star hotels are chains - big corporations. One of the things any big chain has going for it is similarity of product. In other words if you eat in a McDonalds there are going to be a lot of similarities whether it's in DesMoines or Rome. You know what you are getting. So if you stay in a Marriot in Europe there will be a lot of similarity to one in the US. Some people want that, they know what they'll be getting. But the Rick Steves/Arthur Frommers theory is that this is not a good thing. That when you travel it's good to experience something you wouldn't get at home. Hence the reason not to stay at the Marriott (and not to eat at McDonalds) (not that the same people are very likely to do both).

I think it also has to do with your primary purpose of traveling. Some people figure that it's a vacation - a special time, so they should be pampered a little, have more luxury than they are used to at home (of course some people are used to luxury at home and just want to make sure things are up to their standards). Other people travel to see new places, have new experiences and that includes meeting and being around more average everyday people going about everyday lives. And this you are more liekly to get at 1-3 star hotels and B&Bs.

Sure you can meet people of all nationalities in expensive hotels, but they will more than likely be wealthy people, or business people. Those people are not necessarily any less interesting than the people who stay in more modest lodgings, but they certainly are no more interesting either.

Clifton

I don't know that much of Rick Steves. I've seen a couple of episodes of his show and poked around on his website. But when I saw you quote "Spending more money only builds a thicker wall between you and what you came to see." my first reaction was -- How would Rick know what I'm coming to see? I haven't even finished planning the trip yet. Boy, he IS good...

Actually though, we don't throw a lot of money at hotels and "top" restaurants and have never felt shorted for it. It's nice to have a splurge on vacation, just like it's nice at home, but it's certainly not a measure of holiday success for us. Decent clean rooms in a location convenient to the sites, and a pleasant meal that's different than we would find at home. In the end though, if the qualities of the memories of a hotel room equal those had when out of the room, then I wouldn't be sure that we picked the right vacation spot.

After reading Isabella Dusi's book on living in Montalcino, and how it took years for neighbors to stop calling her "La Signora", I think the last of my illusions of going local disappeared. I'll settle for a sunny spot to sit and a conversation should one come along.

Natalia

I don't see why a luxury hotel would necessarily be considered sterile. Hotels such as Boyer Les Crayeurs, The Meurice and the Carlton in Cannes are wonderful.
Staying in a suite at the Carlton and having the most wonderful view is exhilerating.
An elegant hotel doesn't have to be a chain, sterile or pompous, anymore than an inexpensive one is necessarily seedy.

The people you meet who are staying in the hotel with you are fellow tourists, if you want to meet locals you have to go off the beaten track on your own and more than likely initiate the conversation in the local language, it doesn't matter where you are staying.