marcy_

I was reading a Rick Steves guide in preparation for an upcoming trip ( Not my favorite, but I read lots of guides when planning), and became intrigued by something he said-- "Spending more money only builds a thicker wall between you and what you came to see."

I'll have to admit that I have usually stayed in fairly expensive hotels, and do enjoy luxurious accomodations (who doesn't!) and I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it.

I'm wondering, though, does it diminish one's exposure to the local culture to stay in an expensive hotel?

What about staying in small hotels vs. large ones as far as having a more of an opportunity to talk to people?

I guess the same question applies to restaurants, but it's easier to do both in one trip. Sometimes I think that a meal in an expensive restaurant can be pretty much the same whether it's in Paris or Chicago, but you really get to know a country better by eating in the little local places. I don't think I'm willing to give up having a few really great meals, though!

A lot of the reason I like to travel is to talk to people, and learn a little about what it's really like to live there. I do try to learn as much of the language as I can before I go, and I think that helps a lot.

Does anybody have any ideas for having the maximum cultural exchange without giving up too many comforts?

WillTravel

I think that idea is a sort of reverse snobbery. It might have a little merit, but it's not entirely true. After all, moderate and upscale places are frequented by actual, real people too, and they aren't all going to be Americans (in fact, the ratio is not necessarily different than a cheaper place).

That said, there is no friendlier place to meet people than hostels.

clairobscur

I believe it's true. But I believe that it's equally true in your own country. Your wealth indeed, IMO, build a wall between you and most other people, kind of living in two different worlds.

tripgirl

Marcy: You are a woman after my own heart. I do travel mostly upscale, not the big, big budget hotels, but as much as my husband and I can afford to stay in nice surroundings.

I'm not a rough it kind of gal at all and I'm in the food business ( a chef and cook book author) and I would not dream of not eating in the best places when I travel. And best to me is a myriad of places: for instance one of the most memorable meals I had recently was at Louis XV restaurant in Monaco, bank breaking as it was. Yet during that trip , we stayed in a lovely, but oh so reasonably priced apt. And then another time in Austria I loved this little hole-in-the wall restaurant in Vienna inhabited only by locals that I will remember for a long time.

So a mixture is what my husband and I seek.

My step daughter loves the hostal thing, I'm afraid I believe I am too old for that I kind of missed all that youth stuff!

I was raised in the hotel business as well so I am kind of used to the whole hotel thing; the lobby, gift shop, etc. I don't feel it diminishes the experience of getting to know a culture and its people.

Rick Steves books are good for some of the history of places, but I would not take his restaurant and hotel suggestions; they just are not our thing!

I think you create your own experience wherever you go; ours are perfectly lovely and memorable even if I am dining at Louis XV or eating a less than 10 euro lunch.

One thing we do, is that we hire private guides for some of the attractions we want in depth knowledge of. Some of our guides over the years have become good e mail pals; I can name 4 who we keep in touch with and send cards to as well. Now that to me is a nice way to make friends with locals!

Have a ball on your trip!!

JMM

I think Rick Steves is making a pretty good point in that statement. For example if you only stay at expensive hotel chains, you will definitely get less of a feel for a country than if you stay at B&Bs and small guesthouses or small local hotels. At a guesthouse or B&B you get to interact with the actual owners of the place. They can tell you which restaurants give you the best value for your money or allow you to sample the best of local cuisine. They can often advise you about more obscure sights (perhaps not even mentioned in your guidebook) that are worth seeing. At small local restaurants, you will get a chance to mingle with local people and sample "real" local food - not some tarted up touristy, overpriced version. Most of the time food from local small restaurants will be better than the overpriced touristy food and it will always be a lot cheaper. I do not delude myself that by doing this I will "experience" the true reality of living in the country I am visiting BUT I will at least get a feeling that I am REALLY SOMEWHERE ELSE and interacting with local people. To me that is part of the magic of travelling. However one proviso: Cheapest is NOT always best. You should know what level of comfort is important to you and look for that. I do not stay at the cheapest B&Bs and guesthouses. I tend to stay at nice ones - mid to upper level. Many guesthouses and B&Bs are surprisingly luxurious - if that is important to you.

rex

I think it is true at some level... it might reflecy mias because I have been a small business owner/operator - - when a hotel appears to have a staff of two or three - - the owner, one or two family members, and maybe one other person (at least that's all you see in an average 2 or 3 day stay), it feels more comfortable to talk to that owner about what's in the news, what's on the minds of guests at that hotel, how is business, etc.

I would never think to have a conversation like that at a Westin, or an Ibis.

Best wishes,

Rex

capo

Hi Marcy. First let me say that a couple of my favorite places to stay in Europe are budget places I've found in Rick Steves' books, including a hotel in Nice run by a feisty woman (in her late 80s or early 90s) and her son, and a locanda in Siena run by a wonderful charming couple. And, overall, I like Steves' travel philosophy, but that's primarly because it dovetails with mine.

That being said, I have to respectfully disagree with his comment that "Spending more money only builds a thicker wall between you and what you came to see." for the reason that what one goes to see and experience in Europe differs from person to person.

As WillTravel mentioned, moderate and upscale places are frequented by actual, real Europeans too and, for example, if one prefers rubbing shoulders with them -- rather than the hoi polloi one might find in budget places -- then staying in those kinds of places would hardly build a wall between you and fellow upscalers.

Same goes for restaurants. Real Europeans -- just like real Americans -- eat in all kinds of places, from the must humble trattorias (or take-out pizza places) to the most pricey restaurants.

So it depends. What are <i>you</i> going to Europe to see? What kind of people do <i>you</i> most want to be around in Europe?

WillTravel

Whether or not you can strike up a conversation with the staff at a hotel or restaurant or wherever might have more to do with whether or not you are an extrovert. My daughter can strike up conversations with anyone anywhere - I don't think she would be fazed by whether the hotel was cheap or expensive.

Bitter

Echoing earlier posters, it is most true when it comes to accomodations: If you stay at a family owned pensione, you'll probably (but not necessarily) rub elbows with the owners. This won't happen at a branded hotel, where you are one of hundreds of guests. It is also true, perhaps, regarding transportation. We have met people on trains we wouldn't have, if we took a cab or car (but you could meet people in first or second class, so it is the type of transportation, not necessarily cost). Otherwise, whether you eat at an expensive restaurant or a McDonald's the odds are probably about even as to whether you meet locals.
I do wonder what it is about European travel that makes us (me included) want to meet locals, when at home I really could care less about talking to perfect strangers?!

ncgrrl

When you travel in America do you go out of your way to meet the locals in the hotels and restaurants? If you do, then you'll probably do the same in Europe. If you are more of a shy, quiet type then you won't no matter where you stay.

If you really want to meet the locals, hang out with the locals. Maybe go to a non-touristy church or grocery store.

ira

Hi,

It has been my experience that cheap is often more authentic. Not as good, but more authentic.

ira

&quot;Spending more money only builds a thicker wall between you and what you came to see.&quot;

Hmmmm. Does that mean that the Plaza Athenee isn't really French; that tea at Brown's isn't really English?

StephenG

I always like the term &quot;exclusive luxury hotel accomodations&quot;.
I know they are only excluding me and not the locals. The most enjoyable meal I had in Rome last time was dinner at a Trattoria one block from the termini train station. Table on one side were Carbeniri (sp?), police and on the otherside were three beautifull Japanese women on holiday. The banter was worth the price of 15 euros.Oh we did get 3 courses, house wine and the owner insisted we have some grappa before leaving, no charge. I guess for me the is value and why I spend my hard earned mony on european travel.

WillTravel

I think an Ibis breakfast room would actually be an excellent place to meet locals. The one I stayed at in Sweden had dozens of Swedish families breakfasting in an informal style, and if I had the inclination and courage to start a conversation out of the blue, I certainly would have met locals.

capo

I should add that, even though I said I disagree with Steves' &quot;Spending more money only builds a thicker wall between you and what you came to see.&quot; comment for the reason that what one goes to see and experience in Europe differs from person to person, that's looking at the &quot;you&quot; in his comment as European travelers in general.

When looking at the &quot;you&quot; in his comment as European travelers who tend to share his travel philosophy, and read his books, then his comment makes a lot more sense. It wouldn't make nearly as much as sense if he was addressing the readers of a magazine like Conde Nast Traveler.

As others have alluded to, while you won't necessarily have a European family running budget accomodations, it is almost certain you will not have a European family running upscale accomodations. But Europeans will still be working there and, again, it depends on what you want; you may not give a crusty baguette about meeting a European family running the place where you stay.

chardonnay

Tripping though France one year I stayed only at exclusive chateaux and met wonderful people. I spoke to the staff and to the wealthy clients and experienced the culture.

Some of you think that the upper crust are not real people? They just have a different culture than some, but their culture is just as real.

When I am home I mix it up with the wealthy and with the poor and have fun with both.

I don't get the meaning of that quote.

cigalechanta

I have friends throughout France and they do not eat fois gras often, nor truffles, or any other goody we associate France with. It's too expensive. Sure, I'll spend a day or two at an auberge, mas, bastide but never in a huge hotel.And wherever you stay going, go to the local bistro, or bar where the locals hang out. Even the tourists along the water in. let's say Honfleur were more fun than we had eating at the too expensive Ferme St-Simion(sp?) But let me also add, to have fun, be fun, open. We try alot of B&amp;Bs that we return to , year after year
and find them the best choices for oour needs.

zootsi

I suppose it's what you are used to, and what you want as far as luxuries. For me, I prefer 2* hotels and b&amp;b's. 4* &amp; 5* hotels are fun once in a while but I couldn't enjoy them every night on a vaction. Just as long as the bed is comfortable, the room is clean, and the neighborhood is safe, I'm happy. I enjoy sitting down to breakfast with other travellers and the owner of a small b&amp;b. What a great way to start a day in a new country. In Italy we dined at a very elegant retaurant in Chianti. Sure the food and service was great, but we had far more fun in a little trattoria where a tableful of local collge girls were celebrating a birthday, singing 'Under the Boardwalk' and other American oldies , and having a great time drinking Lemoncello. To me that's experiencing the real culture of a country!

JonJon

I'm not convinced you'll increase the amount of &quot;interaction&quot; you'll have with &quot;the locals&quot;...be it talking or otherwise...by staying in a smaller or a cheaper hotel. A lot of that interaction is going to be initiated by YOU and whether or not you do so shouldn't be affected all that much by where you stay. That said, if you think that interacting with the people who work or stay in the same places you do increases your &quot;exposure to the culture&quot; that's fine. Whether or not the people you interact with, regardless of where you do it, are broadly REPRESENTATIVE of that culture is another matter.

I'm honestly intrigued that you felt the need to add the &quot;disclaimer&quot; about reading the Rick Steves guidebook by saying it isn't your favorite...I hope you aren't in any way ashamed of having read it because it is just one more very valuable source of travel ideas. However, I'm not convinced that &quot;spending more money builds a thicker wall...&quot; I think it depends on HOW the money is spent. If you &quot;spend more money&quot; to go more places and see more people and things in a country or location how can that possibly build a thicker wall?

A lot of folks seem to like staying in an apartment when they travel and some of them say it helps them &quot;feel more like they are part of the community&quot; and if it works out that way, fine. But you could easily go around and talk to all sorts of people no matter where you stay....would the people who inhabit a small village be more inclined to talk freely with you...perhaps they would and perhaps not. Furthermore, would YOU open up to some total tourist stranger who happened to strike up a conversation in your local super market...not unless THEY initiated the conversation I suspect.

So, the onus remains on you to get out of wherever you are staying and interact...and no, I wouldn't make myself miserable overnight to do so, either. Good luck.

Anonymous

&quot;Does anybody have any ideas for having the maximum cultural exchange without giving up too many comforts?&quot;

For the ultimate cultural exchange, try a home exchange! When we exchanged our ordinary suburban home for a London townhouse (complete with gardener and cleaning lady), we found ourselves truly immersed in the local culture, from meeting the neighbors for a chat about the weather to encountering local takeout and shopkeepers to mastering exotic household appliances to enjoying our hosts' pantry, video library and selections of car-radio buttons. After that experience, no stay in a hotel, anywhere, will feel quite as, um, immersive. I guess the closest would be a B&amp;B where you get to know your hosts.