Fodor's Travel Talk Forums - Experienced Travelers: does 4 weeks 12 cities sound good?

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Experienced Travelers: does 4 weeks 12 cities sound good?

Hi, My sister and I, (21 & 22 years old) are planning a trip for next summer. Since we collectively speak some Spanish, French, German and (very little) Italian, I was thinking of visiting these four countries. We won't have much money (we'll be spending mostly scholarships and student loans ;). Do you think it would be a good idea to select 3 cities in each country, and spend about one week in each country? I was thinking of travelling by train most of the time. Should we do more, or less? We are from Hungary, and have been to Germany and Italy with our parents loooong ago, but never been to Spain and France. We live in Canada now, but I've been wanting to go back to Europe for so long. Generally we'd like to avoid big & industrial cities, (however I wouldn't mind seeing Barcelona in Spain). ANY help, suggestions etc would be appreciated... P.S. my sister has a history of changing her mind the last minute, so I REALLY want to plan this trip well, so she won't have a chance to back out. :) P.S.2. is it possible to do ALL the planning online??? I've never planned a trip before, when we travelled with my parents we did everything spontaneous, but I don't want to take the chance now. Thanks! Melinda

Hi Sorry to say, but I think you are trying to see too much in the time. Better to see all you want in one place than miss many "must sees" in many places ? You are young, you can always come back. Peter

Melinda, I believe you're planning way too much. You should try and stay in one place for awhile and really get to know the people and the culture. Think: "Less is more". It is not the "quantity" of places you visit but the "quality" of your time spent there so.. 1) Try to plan to stay much longer in each place 2) eliminate destinations so that you have time to relax and see things the way you really want to 3) Yes, you can plan everything online and this site is a great starting place for advice from many very experienced travelers 4) Have a wonderful trip. In planning try to remember that it isn't always so wonderful to plan every second. I am a big "planner" myself but sometimes you just have to change plans for something you'd prefer to see or do. Have a wonderful trip.

It does sound a lot, but if you like that sort of vacation, go for it! But bear in mind how often you will be packing and unpacking, and how much travelling time is involved. If it was me, I would schedule a week somewhere relaxing (e.g. the Italian lakes, Tuscany, or somewhere with a beach) as part of the 4 weeks, and not try to do cities all the time - you will have seen enough churches and museums after a while! The countryside in Europe is great for hiking, many marked trails - eg the Black Forest, parts of the Alps, etc etc. Do you mean summer 2003 - that is enough time to research everything on the web, but if it is summer 2002, many places are booking up. I may be alone, but I tend to find places on the web, but make the actual bookings by phone, email or fax.

It would be summer of 2003. Yes, I realize it might be too much...the reason I wanted these 4 countries is because I speak those languages, and what a great way to practice! Maybe then we'll chose 2 of the 4 instead. I live in a very nice area, here in Canada, and my mom has a beautiful garden to relax in...nice deserted beaches close-by... So I could do that at home. In Europe, I'm looking for some action, and culture :)

Melinda: If language is really the focus of the trip, you can use three of your languages right in Switzerland. Two weeks in Switzerland and two weeks in Spain might be a better alternative than trying to cover four countries in four weeks.

I'll dissent. I think that your plan is fine. Just think about how you can maximize what you see where you ARE, and travel around less. And don't stick just to CITIES - - think regions. Three days in Avignon is more than enough, but three days in Avignon - - and Arles, and Orange, and Nimes, and Aix-en-Provence - - well you get the picture - - in many areas, you'll see three (or more) "places" without having to move around. I also think that too many of "us" have forgotten about how much energy you can have at your age. I think that seven days in one country can be done without excessive strain of packing and unpacking by using a 3-1-3 plan. Choose your itinerary so that you spend 3 nights, then 1 night, then 3 nights. For the one night stay, you just pack enough to get you through that one night and don't really pack and unpack. And I disagree with the suggestion to incorporate Switzerland into your plans. EXPENSIVE - - compared to other gems in any of the other four countries you mentioned. I would be delighted to serve as a resource and "help plan" this with you - - though the truth is, only you can really plan it yourselves. Don't rule out a car lease either - - though I am not sure about the age requirements. Car rental companies WILL in general rent to drivers 21 and over (unlike the US where 25 is the more common rule) - - but I am not sure about the (better priced) lease deals (typically require 17 days minimum). Best wishes, Rex Bickers Westerville, Ohio

Melinda--- You've been given some great ideas, and they are almost as different as the people who gave them---which is exactly what you should expect. Those of us who have traveled frequently in Europe each have our own set of priorities and preferences. You mentioned action, culture, and language, and you seemed to be more interested in the places where your knowledge of language is better. I would suggest you follow the advice of Rex in staying in one place for a long time, then moving on; but I would certainly recommend that you spend more time in France and Italy, because those are my favorite places (as I said, we are all different). Everyone who patronizes this web site will gladly pitch in and help, no matter what you decide. My recommendation is to structure something rough, naming only regions and times to spend there as Rex suggested. Then come back and let us help you arrange the next level of your itinerary around those regions and times. So here are my picks for your initial planning: -Fly into Paris. Stay in the region for at least 5 nights. -Take the train to Avignon, Aix, Nice, or a similar location in the south of France. Stay in that location for at least a week and take a few day trips. -Take the train to Rome. Stay in Rome for a week or more; take a couple of day trips to places like Orvieto and Frascati. -Take the train to Venice. Stay in Venice for at least 4-5 nights. -Fly out of Venice and go home to Canada. If you wanted to substitute some time in Spain, you could travel by train from Paris to the Barcelona area. From there you could go through the south of France, over to Rome, and then to Venice. Or you could delete Venice from the trip and stay in Rome for your final visit. Whether you stop somewhere like Florence on your way to Rome would depend on whether you prefer that to some other area. One thing I would suggest is that you don't worry about a lack of knowledge of the Italian language. With your ability in the other languages, you will get along fine in Italy. Now, however, for something completely different: Here is a skeleton itinerary that goes to the smaller places and allows you to get out into the villages and towns more frequently, with a couple of city stops for the culture and history. (which you can also find in abundance in the smaller towns) -Fly into Paris. Spend 4-5 days there. -Take the train to a village near Barcelona. Stay there and explore for a week. -Take the train to the south of France, stopping somewhere outside of Avignon (Orange, for instance). (You will need to study the train schedules) Stay in a selected village there for a week and explore the area. -Take the train to Rome. Stay in the area or in the city for a week, then fly out of Rome to go home.

The biggest risk is traveling 4 weeks with your sister, yikes! My sister and brother went to Europe together, but parted ways the first week. They still are not speaking. It's been fifteen years.

Oh yes Melinda my little trollesse, I highly recomend spending your student loan money on travel. That leaves you free to declare bankruptcy when you drop out of school and whine when you find out that that student loans are exempt. Why not wait until you can spend your own money for travel, rather than taxpayers money.

I am not as opposed to your original idea as some of the others. It's been a while, but I still remember the energy I had at your age, and can't imagine spending a week of my four weeks there "relaxing". I'd want to be on the go every minute. Rex's idea when traveling of doing three days in a city, then travel and do a one night stop, then three nights in another city is a very good one. I also think if you limit your travels to Northern Italy, Southern Germany, and Northeastern Spain, plus France -- it really is quite possible and not all that much travel for a four week period. The problem comes if you want to include going to southern Spain or Italy, or to Berlin. Ideally you might want to fly into Frankfurt, visit the Rhine area, travel to Paris, down to Barcelona, across southern France to Provence and the Riviera and into northern Italy, flying home from Milan. Of course, a million variations of that are possible. I also agree not to overlook the car lease program. Auto France has only an 18 age requirement and since you need a car for more than 17 days it could prove to be much more economical than trains. You can lease a brand new Peugeot 106 that gets 46 miles to the gallon and comes with full insurance -- no deductible--for a very reasonable price -- see the website www.autofrance.net (sorry, I've misplaced my price list). Hopefully you can manage with a standard shift, otherwise you would need to upgrade to a 206 automatic with air conditioning, but still quite reasonable. If you stay on the outskirts of most cities, the driving should not be a problem, the hotels will be cheaper, and you can rely on inexpensive public transportation within the cities. You can even drop it off at Frankfort or Milan for just $40.

Rex does seem to be in dissenter mode these days. Hey Rex, yeah, Switzerland is maybe more expensive than the other countries, but if Melinda spends two weeks there and two weeks in Spain as Saint-Circq suggested, then Melinda doesn't have to spend money to travel to two other countries - you get my drift? Maybe the suggestion wasn't all that bad, after all. And why do you always have to contradict the advice of other, intelligent posters? It's like a hobby of yours to try to sound like the most knwledgeable person around, but in fact you're not.

4 countries sounds fine, it is the 12 cities that is the problem. I am going for 32 days and am staying in only 7 areas and it still seems like a lot. I recommend you try to stay 4 - 5 days in an area although I agree with Rex that a 3-1-3 would work.

Thank you for all of your suggestions! They are all great (and PLEASE let people respond what they think because I don't want 13 answers that are exactly the SAME). I talked it over with my sister, and decided to stick to regions, and maybe leave out Germany (we've been there 4 times from Hungary). We do plan to go to smaller places - first they are probably cheaper, second - I don't want them to cater to tourists specifically. I have a friend in Switzerland who'd probably let us stay with her for a few days, but I still think it's too expensive. I tried to resist responding to the "student loan" poster, but I can't, so here it is: I believe education is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. My parents are not rich, they have two children going to university who work in the summer full time. I am a good student, so I manage to get a couple of thousand dollars worth of scholarships, and I still have to get a student loan. Then all year I hardly spend for anything, while my friends order pizzas, and drink their heads off all the time. Now; I trust myself that I can get a decent job after I graduate, and my parents would certainly help me out before I had to declare bankruptcy. And get this: my major is in FINANCE and ECONOMICS. I just want to travel a little before I start working with 1 week vacation per year. So if you're not helping to answer my question please don't post anything. My guess is you either didn't go to university or your parents paid for it. Rex, I might take you up on your offer to help planning once I get a more definitive idea. Thanks again!