Expats- How'd ya do it?
 

Ok, we all wish we were someplace else or we wouldn't be on this site talking about travel. I'm wondering about those that relocated to Europe, how did you do it? I know it's really hard to get work permits, etc. but there are many people I've seen on the "tell me where you are" list who are from place but were able to move to Italy or France, or Switzerland, etc. What's your secret?<BR><BR>I'm 32, married, living in New York City (on a budget though- hard to save in this city!), no kids, and would love to spend a summer in Paris.

meant to say there are people on the "tell me where you are" list that are from here that were able to move. guess i should also say that i don't work at the kind of job that would sponsor me so, as i said, i'd love to know how those that were able to make the move did it.

Hey, wannabe parisienne, GET A LIFE & STOP BEING SO PATHETIC!

The easiest way to do it is for you or your spouse to have a job before you move over. This is longer term (usually at least 18 months, but more like 3 or more years). Teaching and high tech are the 'easiest' fields, unless you join a co. that will move you abroad. You can do it, but it is more difficult to choose a city like Paris. Widen your horizons and don't be picky. We started out in Budapest and are now in Switzerland, with an option to move to Slovenia soon.<BR>Cheers,<BR>Jan

My husband and I have been discussing moving to the UK for a few years to work (from Australia). We can get a work permit as my Mum was born over there. If anyone has experience doing this, I'd love to hear your experiences.<BR><BR>It seems to be easier to work overseas if you are under 27, or if you can have your company sponsor you. Otherwise you can probably pick up something like fruit picking or bar work for not much money - don't know how legal that would be. Speaking French would help you get some work in Paris.<BR>Kay

I understand that this woman is looking for someone to open a Paris branch:<BR><BR>http://www.o-sites.com/pages/4.html

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...

Nothin ain't nothin if it ain't free.

I wanted Paris, too, but could only find a job in Munich (not a bad place, but not what I wanted and I didn't speak German). I took the Munich job anyway, had an interesting time there and then was able to get a job in Paris. It is easier to find a job in a European city if you are already in Europe. So, if you get a chance at something, take it, even if it isn't your first job. Being single and with no children can make things a bit easier; speaking a second language is pretty much essential. Or, try just doing a language program for a summer. Good luck.

Thanks for your replies. Seeing Dan's response to my question, I can see why the Fodor's police had to reprimand a few people on the site! What's Dan's problem? Sorry, thought this was the place to ask questions. <BR><BR>Anyway, thanks again to those that responded in kind. I've been taking French classes at Berlitz, had 5 years of Spanish. I'll just keep dreaming for now until I get lucky.

Wannabe -<BR><BR>Dan was harsh, but your post is a little strange. You haven't even tried to articulate what you do for a living or what sort of work you would be seeking - which is extremely important information. The fact that you didn't even think to include that tells me that you are going to have a hard time competing with all of the bright, articulate, highly qualified candidates looking for positions oveseas.

If all you want to do is go to Europe for the summer, why don't you just save up a little money and go do some volunteer job or take language classes -- forget calling it relocating or trying to get a regular job. There are a lot of web sites with information on those options and it is cheap to do that because you usually get very cheap housing (and often cheap meals). Just type "volunteer abroad" or "study abroad" into Google. Shaw Guides online also has good sections on this.

I am 32, no kids,not rich and married as well. My husband and I said 'F-it' and I got a 6-month leave of absence from work. He is a consultant and declined projects for this time period. A 6-month sabbatical in Europe is wonderful and something you will never forget!!! We only have 3 months left and I already am getting terribly depressed.<BR><BR>The key for us was to pick 2 places in Europe and rent an apartment...much, much cheaper than traveling around and paying for hotels. Plus, you have the experience of living like a native. We still took trips, but the majority of time was spent in the two 'base' cities. <BR><BR>I love it so much that I am now job searching...I don't want to go home!!! Good luck...you only live once.<BR><BR>

Hi<BR><BR>I've done it twice sponsored by an employer, and once solo.<BR><BR>It is very much easier sponsored !<BR><BR>Peter<BR>

Although there clearly are some expats here, they are few compared to the entire communities that get to know each other in bigger cities and neighboring regions. And common sense tells me that there are some online "communities" that exist in conjunction with the "real life" communities.<BR><BR>Reading through some websites in connection with the Prague flood, I stumbled across www.expats.cz which has a lot of information (and a special forum set up as "an emergency forum, especially for the flood crisis").<BR><BR>So, if there is a Czech expats online forum/community - - it seems likely there is a Paris, a Madrid, a Berlin, a Rome, etc.<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

I am originally from NY and living in Ireland for several years now. I am able to do this as my parents were born in Ireland. Although anyone who can proove birth of 1 grandparent in Ireland is eligible for an Irish Passport thereby making you legal to work in any E.U. country. <BR><BR>If you are only going for a summer then you really will fing it harder to get work unless it's maybe in tourist related industries or waitressing but you need some of the language for this. No company will "sponsor" you for 6 months and as said in a previous post you need a speciality like teaching or I.T although many people go in through the back door and work under the table in service industries or on "arrangement" with a small business and they pay you cash. Not sure what you are looking to do. WHat did you have in mind?? <BR><BR>From Ireland I have been to many countries for work like Germany and Belgium and even though one place is not your first choice treat it like a starting point.<BR><BR>Overall it's not something that can be arranged in a month. It takes a lot of planning but it's worth it!

You could try to find a job at Disneyland Paris... They take people for 6 months, but it is not well payed.

We've been living in Brussels, Belgium, for three years. My husband got a great job offer here at the height of the IT job wave (which has since crashed onto Layoff Beach). The company paid to move over all our personal belongings, provided housing allowance, a new car, gas card, etc. After moving here, I received two full time job offers (one in Belgium, one in Switzerland) and both companies were willing to go through the work permit process for me. Neither job turned out to be what I wanted (the salary for the Belgian job was not that good and taxes were so high, I would have been taking home about $1500 a month, not worth it for a full time job [especially when the multinational employer was paying its U.S. employees about $85,000 a year to do the exact same job] and the Swiss job turned out to demand about a 70-hour per week schedule), but I have another job interview coming up next month and fingers crossed for that one--it's with a company I know quite well and one that is familiar with my work (they were interested in me for a position in their U.S. offices, but we weren't willing to move back to the States). I have found that once you are over here for the long term (legally), it's easier to get employers to take you seriously as a job candidate. Very few are relocating people from the U.S. at the moment. And doing it on your own is quite expensive and time consuming, but it's not impossible for the truly determined. However, you should have a financial cushion to get you started and at least modest, above tourist level language skills for the country you hope to live in; you need those for dealing with the government bureaucracy.<BR><BR>But if you're talking about a summer in Paris, that doesn't require a special visa and you can easily sublet a small apartment for July and August for a reasonable amount.

My husband and I also cashed in on the IT wave 4 years ago. We were recruited from our US employer by a European competitor, our move to Munich was paid for, we got relocation assistance, etc. They still occassionally hire from the US but only people with very specific skill sets.

Join the Foreign Service through the Department of State - then you get to live overseas and your job, housing, etc is all taken care of. It's a great way of life!

ttt

ttt

A couple responses were pretty nasty and uncalled for. Wannabe is dreaming like many of us to live for a while overseas-even if it's for a month. <BR><BR>Anyhow, I agree with most people about taking a language course for the month since you only want to spend a summer away.<BR><BR>The person who mentioned picking fruit as a job, really is that legal? It seems similar to farm labor-what if the person got injured picking the fruit, does the employer have any responsiblity? I'd think someone would be very desperate to resort to that as a means to live in Europe.

ttt

(sorry if this is a duplicate. my computer is acting up!)<BR><BR>Thanks to all that offered their stories. I really appreciate it. I'm not sure what happened to Fodors, I've been looking on here since 1999 and I've never experienced the nastiness that others have from such a simple question. Guess it was my turn. <BR><BR>Anyway, I just wanted to hear personal stories from those that actually are living the dream of living abroad and are away from "home," wherever that may be. I'd love to do it, even if it's for a summer (though of course it would be my dream to be there longer but I know that's not realistic because it's so hard to relocate entirely). I'm thinking of doing what many of you advised, which is go as a student or teacher for a few months. But again, was looking for personal stories since I saw on the other thread where people were stating all the places they've lived, many said, I grew up in place X but I'm now in Italy or I'm now in Germany or London, etc. I also remember reading that Elvira and others have taken months long trips in the past and was just curious as to how people are/were able to do this or actually make the move. That's all.<BR><BR>TryTHis, if you are an expat, tell me what you did as I'm glad to listen to anyone that wants to share personal information on this, if you're not, then go to another question where you have something constructive to add. Simple as that. <BR><BR>-wannabe <BR><BR>

"Sorry, thought this was the place to ask questions." Travel questions, not "I'm too much of an idiot to find a relo site" questions.<BR><BR>The easiest way to become a permanent resident of a European country is to fly there, burn all of your identification of any kind, stick a knife in your belly, and force them to bury you there.<BR><BR>Try it.<BR><BR>

Dear Wannabe,<BR>I don't know why you're getting such a hard time.<BR><BR>I was living in California and am now in Provence. I left a very good career, friends, family etc. and it wasn't easy.<BR><BR>I think the secret is about taking risks and adapting to change. How are you at that?<BR><BR>E.

I am an American expat in Amsterdam for the last 4 years, but now moving back to the US (Boston).<BR><BR>It seems to me that over the past several years there was an expat boom in Europe-- mainly due to the strong economy, fast rate of corporate growth, especially in the IT sector. I am very involved in the expat community here in Amsterdam, and it does feel like there is some kind of exodus taking place now. Many multi-nationals are not putting their dollars into expats anymore. <BR><BR>I started with my company in the US and was relocated here by them, giving me the sponsorship I needed. That is definitely one of the best ways to live and work abroad. <BR><BR>You could get a certificate to teach english and that would probably open a lot of doors for you-- you could teach and live in almost any major city in Europe. <BR><BR>Good Luck!<BR>Terra

What is accomplished by the nasty responses I have just read? If you don't like the question - don't answer it. The last one from bj was paticularly uncalled for.

Terra,<BR>Weren't you the one who was contemplating a move to Luzern?! Sorry to hear that it didn't work out...are you excited to be going back to the US? Apparently, there is a huge repatriation issue. We haven't been back in over 2 years (even for a vacation). Things have definitely changed inthose two years.<BR>Good luck...Boston is a great city!<BR>Jan

Just ignore those negative comments. There are many more wonderful human beings in the world then bad/negative ones. This is about asking questions & sharing with one another. Have a great day!!! Best wishes for your adventure! ;-)

I don't know if my comments are called for here or not - - but I say "hats off" to Candace - - and halfway off to "angesteph".<BR><BR>The sniping and vicious attacks here CAN be overcome by good people standing up, posting names and e-mail addresses, and saying just what Candace said. The good contributors really CAN drown out the "negativistas".<BR>

How did I do it? I married a guy from Ireland, so I can legally work anywhere in the EU. Not that I married him for this reason, but it is a nice perk!

Living overseas was for a dream for us too and we were able to make it come true for a while. My spouse was offered a high tech job with a European company. For about 18 months, things were great. But when the IT bubble burst in Europe, like it did in the U.S., it was a lot worse being cast adrift in another country. <BR>As a foreigner, you don't get unemployment benefits. Your work permit was valid only for that employer so you can get another job only if someone is willing to go through the work permit process for you all over. These days, most employers won't. They won't even interview you. Without a valid work permit, your residency permits become invalid, too. <BR>Your European bank that courted you so insistently when you first arrived, abruptly cancels your credit cards even though you paid them regularly. <BR>Moving back to the U.S. costs thousands of dollars and your former employer won't contribute a dime to your relocation, despite what your contract said. You and your fellow unemployed expat colleagues file a lawsuit against the employer for breach of contract, but the European legal system moves very slowly. In the meantime the bills are piling up, you have no income, legal or otherwise, nobody is hiring and you're living off your disappearing savings. You're afraid that if you get questioned by the police for any reason (maybe you witnessed an accident), they'll find out you are living in the country illegally. So you lie low and hope that no one (a landlord, for example, irritated that your rent was late AGAIN) slips your name to the authorities.<BR>Eventually you spend what savings you have left paying an overpriced European moving company to ship your belongings back to the U.S., where there aren't any good jobs either. You end up living with your parents (temporarily, you keep telling youself) and working part time at low paying, dead end jobs while you try to figure out how everything went so wrong, how the dream turned into a nightmare.<BR>I'm not being a "negavista", but don't get too carried away visions of living in Europe. It has a dark side as we know only too well.

My best advice to you is to seek a home exchange. I've been looking very seriously, and there are MANY, MANY people with flats in Paris that want to exchange for a couple of months with someone in NY (far more than want to change with Shanghai, unfortunately for me!). www.holi-swaps.com is a good one.<BR><BR>That would at least GET you there, and make it easier for you to survive (no rent, no worries about a place to stay).<BR><BR>Then, I think you have 2 options:<BR><BR>* Try the no-permit teaching/bartending route; some temporary type job. Yes, there are horror stories of people being sent back (and you would run the risk of possibly being barred from returning, I'm not sure what the total risks are) . . . BUT, I can tell you that loads of people do it.<BR>* Keep looking in the online recruitment ads, maybe send resumes to American companies in your field, post your resume, etc. While it is hard to find a "real" expat posting for which they'll pay to move you, pay housing, etc., it's easier to find a "local hire" expat job. Just say you're going to be in Paris the summer of 2003 for 3 months, and thought you could be of help with them doing XYZ. Might work.<BR><BR>I, too, always wanted to live in Paris. During college, I saw my chance and found a job as an au pair (like a nanny), and continued with long distance independent study while living in Geneva and Paris for a year.<BR><BR>I realized that while I loved it, I wasn't quite happy being there with a temporary job. I knew I wanted to live all over the world, with a professional job.<BR><BR>So I returned, finished my degree, and met and married a wonderful guy who ALSO wanted to live all over the world. We were very interested to move to China, and since he had 5 more years of work experience than I, he was the one who looked more seriously. He spent 1 1/2 years looking online, sending resumes, etc. - what finally did it was a resume he'd left at the Shanghai American Chamber of Commerce.<BR><BR>Once here, I've been very fortunate to get GREAT jobs in my field, but as a "local hire" (i.e. they don't pay my housing etc.).<BR><BR>SO - that's how we did it (even if it doesn't apply so much to your situation).<BR><BR>The above poster is right; you'll probably have more luck and get more concrete advice if you post on (one of the many) expat sites. My personal favorite is: <BR><BR>http://boards2.parentsplace.com/messages/get/ppexpatriates41.html<BR><BR>(Don't be alarmed that it's on "Parentsplace" - the "expat" part of the equasion quickly became far more important & I think a lot of the people are NOT parents)<BR><BR>Best of luck!<BR>

More?