Evensong Apparel
 

I'm starting to pack! I'm assuming t-shirt, jeans and sneakers will be fine for evensong at York Minster/Durham cathedrals.

I would never dress this way for church in the states, but I get the feeling that I'll be surrounded by a bunch of grubbily dressed tourists, so no need to pack extra stuff. Is that right?

I suppose I am personally a bit touchy about (in this case my own) religious services but I assume you are going to be attending rather than simply "observing."

I don't necessarily agree that you are going to be surrounded by a bunch of grubbily-dressed tourists but even if you ARE, the fact that you wouldn't dress this way to go to church at home speaks volumes. Having at least ONE pair of non-jeans trousers never hurts for situations like this and they aren't that much of an "extra" IMO.

I'll be interested in what folks over THERE say in their responses.

Thanks Intrepid. My "always be appropriate" principle is running into conflict with my "never check my bags" principle! Well, I will certainly be sitting with the worshippers delighting in the sights and sounds. But, no, my religious beliefs are not Christian (although I never fail to say the Lord's Prayer.) So am I "attending" or am I "observing"? Please let me know!! :)

You'll be surrounded by a combination of local worshippers and some tourists.

Local worshippers in provincial Anglican cathedrals normally dress more conservatively than in most other British churches, so there'll be a surprising number of tweed jackets. But there'll also be a number of us dressed more or less as you describe.

There simply isn't a dress code in Britain. I usually dress much as you intend when I go to services. Although on average, fellow-worshippers at the nearest Anglican cathedral to our Cotswold mansion are somewhat more formally dressed than at the nearby (and far more crowded) Catholic church, where my clothes are about normal, no-one pays the slightest attention.

Except of course to the interestingly underdressed young women in the Catholic church. But that's been an audience atraction for centuries.

Okay, since shoes are what will take up the most room, my evensong apparel will be jeans and sneakers, but a dress shirt (or polo shirt at the least). Thanks C.S. and intrepid!

Guy, have no idea if you are at all interested in another jean option, but black jeans have become my "uniform" when traveling. Still as comfortable, durable, etc., but they tend to dress up a bit more. Even at evening performances I don't feel as out of place (if I didn't have time to change) as I would in blue jeans.

I don't get on a plane now in anything else (literally).

As the mickey from the Cotswolds says – jeans and a shirt are perfectly acceptable for general evensong.

No shorts though. No shorts ever. Them’s the rules.

Oh dear God. I am the leading proponent on this forum of Americans leaving shorts at home. Except for the beach and exercise of course.

"No shorts though. No shorts ever. Them’s the rules."

Cobblers.

On the rare occasions it gets hot enough round here to necessitate them, I'm by no means the only shorts-wearing middle aged man at Sunday High Mass. And 10-20% of the younger chaps follow suit.

Father O' Whatsit has a pretty long list of things he threatens us with hellfire for during his sermons. Dress code infractions have yet to make the list.

See there’s the difference right there – you’re going to church to listen to Captain whatsisname tell you that you’ll go to hell if you have a sherman or do any ox-covetting – he’s glad you’re there, otherwise he’d be talking to himself, so of course he doesn’t care about the length of your callards or if your dickie’s got a collar.

If however you were just there to gawp, then brimstone would indeed be deserving.

"Have a sherman"?

When I was a schoolboy, and therefore a, reluctant, regular churchgoer I remember they were very strong on the Sherman issue.

One J Arthur and the pearly gates would slam shut., all because of a youthful Jodrell

David...I have no idea what you are talking about. What was the sherman issue? Your entire last post is in another language. Please translate.

I already know what the "answer" is going to probably be from David so I'll let him surprise you with it.

I suppose in some ways you are observing as opposed to attending but in terms of attire I honestly think you could wear about anything that really isn't "grubby" looking..after all, Our Lord is supposedly not interested in anyone's outward attire.

I would agree with CS about folks being more formally dressed with the tweeds and all...Episcopalians here at home tend to do the same thing...

I can honestly relate to the packing issue, especially when it comes to shoes since I wear a size 12, much less dragging around a pair of trousers which aren't the least bit versatile.

I know you'll make the right decision if your past posts are any indication of headspace.

J Arthur Rank; Sherman Tank, Jodrell bank – all slang for the sin of Onan.

The vicars at school were obsessed with it. They said we should save it until we were married – so I did. I had bucket loads of it by then. My wife was a bit surprised at the present.

"The vicars at school were obsessed with it..."

and we all know WHY, too! LOL

Ahem - to get back to the question.

Guy18: You be fine in a sport shirt/nice Polo and (preferably) dark wash or black jeans. Regular blue jeans are fine of course - but I find they can look grubbier after a few days in the Dales/walking, etc. That way you'll fit in fine w/ both the locals and thew visitors.

You might also want a windbreaker/sweater/light jacket. Even in Summer it can be chilly in some of the cathedrals/churches.

David, first the sheep, now the ox, starting a regular Noah's ark now.

I'm just thankful the thread hasn't been pulled yet, I needed that insight into your marriage.

Guy
You’re posts often seem to reflect your spirituality. So, I would have to ask you, are you really going as a
tourist to look at paintings and hear pretty songs? Or is there a possibility that something at this event may move you and you may want to have a deeper discussion with a person not a "grubbily dressed tourist"? If that happens how will you be most comfortably dressed?
"There are many paths up the mountain and the view is all the same."
Personally, I like starrsvilles idea about the black jeans.

But starrsville, "I don't get on a plane now in anything else (literally)."
really? "literally"? It must get a little cold flying in those high altitudes without a top. ;) (sorry, I just couldn't help being a smart aleck today.)

This thread will not be pulled if that rant-o-mania thread about not liking cruising is still floating along...lighten up

L84SKY has pretty much outright said what I was alluding to in terms of "attending" vs. "observing." Believe it or not, there actually ARE some of us who attend even these more "minor" church services and do so because we find them spiritually uplifting and the number of people who are there, the falling attendance, etc., does not diminish their significance.

I see a lot of posts here from people who want to "attend" a church service not out of any spiritual need or desire but more often because they heard it was "beautiful" or are intrigued by it, etc. And I see no reason why they shouldn't be there but I think, in some cases, those folks who attend for other reasons may well be dressed differently.

L84SKY, :-) Well, now you are looping us back to the nude beach topic - or topless beach at least! :-)

I wandered from regular services for a while - but still enjoyed services and concerts from different religions in that interim. My new church is a very old, impressive structure - one child called it "God's Castle Church - but most of those attending Sunday services are casually dressed. That casual dress does include jeans. I do enjoy the woman who still believes in hats - and her outfits are truly celebratory!

Oh my. So many issues.

First of all, Intrepid, don't tell my partner, but you make me all misty- eyed. The sentiment re: headspace is mutual. (Blush.)

If the sherman issue is indeed that dire, then I really have no business attending ANY church service without some serious repentance.

Black jeans? I appreciate the idea, but I can't see myself in them. I think I once knew someone I didn't care for who wore them, and they have several unwholesome associations for me.

Spirituality. Yes, I think a great deal about morality, God, etc. But am firmly in the "what we do" over "what we believe" camp. Perhaps when I die, I'll discover what is True and Eternal. "Through a glass darkly" and all. I doubt I'll be having any discussions about spiritual things on this trip. The people who tend to want to discuss these things generally prefer to talk than listen, and I've already heard and read it all. However, I sometimes wonder if I wasn't a high church Anglican in a former life (there's an oxymoron). If only I could crouch in a dark medieval church and pray! I can think of nothing more delightful. Alas, logic gets in the way.

Can one not "attend" in the spiritual sense even if not a Christian? I mean, with not only some appreciation for the art or the music, but also with reverence due the house of worship? I don't like to think of Guy18, or of myself, as merely a gawking tourist in a church. But if it is inappropriate to "attend" as a non-participant, even an appreciative one, I would like to know.

Shalom,

Nora

Guy, just sent you an email.

Nora, I am going to be presumptuous and answer this. When I attend I do not think of myself as a mere tourist. I sing and participate when I feel comfortable doing so. I am always respectful. I never take pictures. Aside from the fact that I do not kneel, you would never know that I'm more of an observer than participant. And I have always been made to feel welcome by all of the worshippers present. Aside from their simply being gracious, I think that they see the beauty of the service as a good way to attract potential believers.

Yes, Nora, I think one can attend or observe, etc., as they wish, and nobody is going to know what your mindset, attitude, etc., is, and that is the way it should be IMO.

If there is some sort of spiritual uplift as a result then all the better IMO.

Unlike some religious viewpoints, mine is that different people get different things out of religious services or I suppose The Divine speaks to different people in different ways and when some indivdiuals try to "standardize" the so-called "necessary response" it gets dicey.

Guy18..as to headspace..yes, I understand perfectly which is why I am anxiously awaiting your forthcoming trip report and also thinking about my own upcoming UK driving experience!

Cheers, Buddy...

Re attending rather than participating:

In the major churches and cathedrals there are plenty of people doing both. Non participants are welcome, but should remember that these buildings actually have a purpose, and that purpose is to fold services.

So one thing I would ask people who are attending in a non-participatory way is to stay towards the back - and let those that are there for observation take the front pews.