Europe's Microc Countries
Oct 15th, 2014, 04:42 AM
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Europe's Microc Countries
Just got my railpass for a whirlwind December trip to all the European microcountries (except Malta). Total two weeks including 3 days in Barcelona at the end to decompress! [Luxembourg - Liechtenstein - San Marino - Vatican - Monaco - Andorra - Gibraltar]
Oct 15th, 2014, 05:15 AM
#4
You missing out the Vatican for some reason?
and any time for
Aland Islands, Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Alderney, Herm and Sark
Isle of Man or Jersey?
Plus I think there is another un-accepted place in Italy and that bit of Italy that is inside Switzerland could count
and any time for
Aland Islands, Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Alderney, Herm and Sark
Isle of Man or Jersey?
Plus I think there is another un-accepted place in Italy and that bit of Italy that is inside Switzerland could count
Oct 15th, 2014, 06:30 AM
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" there is another un-accepted place in Italy and that bit of Italy that is inside Switzerland could count"
The Sovereign Military Order of Malta (he said, harking back to his stamp collecting days) is sovereign, but has no real territory. Apart from its office in the Via Condotti and - far more interesting - its Villa Magistral on the Aventine. In the middle of its front gate is a hole, through which you get a terrific view of St Peter's. So from the ultimate nano-state, you get a view of its friendly neighbourhood micro-state - worth at least an extra five points on the state-collecting card, I'd have thought.
Nothing so interesting about Campione d'Italia. Apart from a horrid casino, its main point of interest seems to be an odd insight into the complexity of European roads, and the consequences for it of the Schengen system.
While staying on an Italian bit of Lago Maggiore recently, the only sensible way to the amazing panorama from Sighingola (also in Italy) was through Switzerland. That road passed just around Campione - a sliver of Italy entirely surrounded by Switzerland. So we could, to get to a bit of the same country 20 miles away, have crossed the border into Switz, then into Italy, then into Switz, then into Italy.
Heavy users of this site know that there's free movement of people between Italy and Switz: trade rules geeks know there isn't free movement of goods (or money), and anyone who knows Italy knows all Swiss borders near Milan tempt money launderers out in their droves. So each of those five borders is subject to Customs Flying Squads on both sides: random road blocks by heavies looking for anything indicating cash or valuables being smuggled away from the Italian government's prying eyes.
On a bad day (we had one) those 20 miles can take 3 hours. But the view from Sighingola is even better than the view through the Sovereign Order's keyhole.
The Sovereign Military Order of Malta (he said, harking back to his stamp collecting days) is sovereign, but has no real territory. Apart from its office in the Via Condotti and - far more interesting - its Villa Magistral on the Aventine. In the middle of its front gate is a hole, through which you get a terrific view of St Peter's. So from the ultimate nano-state, you get a view of its friendly neighbourhood micro-state - worth at least an extra five points on the state-collecting card, I'd have thought.
Nothing so interesting about Campione d'Italia. Apart from a horrid casino, its main point of interest seems to be an odd insight into the complexity of European roads, and the consequences for it of the Schengen system.
While staying on an Italian bit of Lago Maggiore recently, the only sensible way to the amazing panorama from Sighingola (also in Italy) was through Switzerland. That road passed just around Campione - a sliver of Italy entirely surrounded by Switzerland. So we could, to get to a bit of the same country 20 miles away, have crossed the border into Switz, then into Italy, then into Switz, then into Italy.
Heavy users of this site know that there's free movement of people between Italy and Switz: trade rules geeks know there isn't free movement of goods (or money), and anyone who knows Italy knows all Swiss borders near Milan tempt money launderers out in their droves. So each of those five borders is subject to Customs Flying Squads on both sides: random road blocks by heavies looking for anything indicating cash or valuables being smuggled away from the Italian government's prying eyes.
On a bad day (we had one) those 20 miles can take 3 hours. But the view from Sighingola is even better than the view through the Sovereign Order's keyhole.
Oct 15th, 2014, 07:43 AM
#7
Thought you guys might like this
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ype=blogs&_r=0
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ype=blogs&_r=0
Oct 15th, 2014, 08:17 AM
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Bilbo's article was just what we were trying to Google while stuck in one of those Flying Customs queues.
But smartphone reception in mountains being almost as rotten as the SatNav...
Can anyone explain, BTW, how it's possible to get perfect SatNav reception in the Gottard Tunnel (which is under about a mile of solid rock), but not in a road by the side of a lake with a few mountains around?
But smartphone reception in mountains being almost as rotten as the SatNav...
Can anyone explain, BTW, how it's possible to get perfect SatNav reception in the Gottard Tunnel (which is under about a mile of solid rock), but not in a road by the side of a lake with a few mountains around?
Oct 15th, 2014, 08:53 AM
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The entry to Gibraltar by car from Spain can waste many hours. And once you enter you actually drive across the tarmac of the airport in Gibraltar, talk about looking both ways.
The typo in the title was most intriguing.
The typo in the title was most intriguing.
Oct 15th, 2014, 09:18 AM
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" I think there is another un-accepted place in Italy and that bit of Italy that is inside Switzerland could count"
There is also a bit of Spain that is inside France : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ll%C3%ADvia
There is also a bit of Spain that is inside France : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ll%C3%ADvia
Oct 16th, 2014, 10:41 AM
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>Have you actually plotted out how long it will take to get from point A to point B?
By train, the timetables are easily available. So, of course!
>and any time for
Aland Islands, Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Alderney, Herm and Sark
Isle of Man or Jersey?
Tried but trains don't go there! Plus, they're not countries. ( I know, neither is Gibraltar...]
>The entry to Gibraltar by car from Spain can waste many hours.
Not a problem ... I'll be on foot!
And sorry about that typo.
>There is also a bit of Spain that is inside France
And a bit of France (Saint Pierre and Miquelon) which is inside the maritime boundary of Canada.
By train, the timetables are easily available. So, of course!
>and any time for
Aland Islands, Faroe Islands, Guernsey, Alderney, Herm and Sark
Isle of Man or Jersey?
Tried but trains don't go there! Plus, they're not countries. ( I know, neither is Gibraltar...]
>The entry to Gibraltar by car from Spain can waste many hours.
Not a problem ... I'll be on foot!
And sorry about that typo.
>There is also a bit of Spain that is inside France
And a bit of France (Saint Pierre and Miquelon) which is inside the maritime boundary of Canada.
Oct 16th, 2014, 12:08 PM
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"Plus, they're not countries"
Sez who?
Guernsey, Alderney, Herm, Sark, (well, maybe not Herm), the Isle of Man and Jersey all have far better - and longer - claims to be called "countries" than Andorra, Liechtenstein or Gibraltar. Manx is more widely (ok less imperceptibly) spoken, and far more a distinctive language, than anything spoken in the other micro-states, and the Isle of Man can plausibly claim to be the world's longest continuously operating democracy.
In case you're confused, none of the micro-states in the British Isles is part of the UK.
Sez who?
Guernsey, Alderney, Herm, Sark, (well, maybe not Herm), the Isle of Man and Jersey all have far better - and longer - claims to be called "countries" than Andorra, Liechtenstein or Gibraltar. Manx is more widely (ok less imperceptibly) spoken, and far more a distinctive language, than anything spoken in the other micro-states, and the Isle of Man can plausibly claim to be the world's longest continuously operating democracy.
In case you're confused, none of the micro-states in the British Isles is part of the UK.
Oct 16th, 2014, 01:46 PM
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Never said a train has to actually stop IN a country. Andorra is served by Andorre-L'Hospitalet a couple of miles away with connecting bus service. Lichtenstein by a station (Buchs) just across the bridge in Switzerland. For that matter, San Marino is served by the Rimini, Italy station, Monaco's station is actually in France and the Vatican uses Rome. Close enough for little countries which barely have room for a train! Heck, even Amtrak uses bus connections to serve some locations.
Guernsey, et al, may once have been countries but not now according to authorities I prefer* (and I'm saving them for a future journey). Longevity does not a country make (East Timor, anyone?). Dependencies, territories, etc. are not sovereign, independent countries, along with places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Falklands.
*There are many such "authorities" with different lists of "countries." One can prefer the UN list, that of the World Atlas, National Geographic or even the Travelers Century Club. Take your pick.
Nonetheless, it's easier in Europe and the generally accepted list of micro countries in Europe is Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Malta, Vatican City, Monaco and Andorra.
Guernsey, et al, may once have been countries but not now according to authorities I prefer* (and I'm saving them for a future journey). Longevity does not a country make (East Timor, anyone?). Dependencies, territories, etc. are not sovereign, independent countries, along with places like Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Falklands.
*There are many such "authorities" with different lists of "countries." One can prefer the UN list, that of the World Atlas, National Geographic or even the Travelers Century Club. Take your pick.
Nonetheless, it's easier in Europe and the generally accepted list of micro countries in Europe is Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Malta, Vatican City, Monaco and Andorra.
Oct 16th, 2014, 02:11 PM
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Jersey and Guernsey were the only part of the British Isles held by the Nazis during WWII. How was their democracy those years?
There are many Native American tribes whose from of government can be considered democratic.
There are many Native American tribes whose from of government can be considered democratic.
Jan 3rd, 2015, 02:01 PM
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Back now. Good trip, generally uneventful but loads of fun.
The only problem was the train to Barcelona was three hours late due to a wind storm taking out a catenary, arriving about 11 in the evening. The B&B I was staying at waited two extra hours for me but that wasn't enough and I couldn't get in the front door. So had the waiting taxi take me to the Crowne Plaza for a night.
>The entry to Gibraltar by car from Spain can waste many hours.
By foot there was no line at all and I chatted with the immigration officer for a few minutes. And just as easy a couple of mornings later going through Spanish immigration.
The only problem was the train to Barcelona was three hours late due to a wind storm taking out a catenary, arriving about 11 in the evening. The B&B I was staying at waited two extra hours for me but that wasn't enough and I couldn't get in the front door. So had the waiting taxi take me to the Crowne Plaza for a night.
>The entry to Gibraltar by car from Spain can waste many hours.
By foot there was no line at all and I chatted with the immigration officer for a few minutes. And just as easy a couple of mornings later going through Spanish immigration.
Jan 3rd, 2015, 05:17 PM
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Well we haven;t been to that many. Luxembourg is definitely actually worth a couple of days - if you explore both the town and WWII remains. And the Vatican is good for a day.
Gibraltar is a huge waste of time (they pulled the back seats out of our car going back into Spain) and Lichtenstein seemed just to be a highway exit between two tunnels.
Can't comment on the others.
Gibraltar is a huge waste of time (they pulled the back seats out of our car going back into Spain) and Lichtenstein seemed just to be a highway exit between two tunnels.
Can't comment on the others.
Jan 4th, 2015, 05:16 AM
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I enjoyed my time in both. In Gibraltar I spent almost 7 hours up on The Rock (cable car up, walk down) and enjoyed every minute. Lowland Liechtenstein was mundane but going to the mountains (Malbun) and walking around in the forested mountains was quite delightful.
Agree a day is good for Vatican City so as I had been there previously, I only spent one night in Rome using my 4 or so hours of daylight to walk from Termini to Vatican and back. Took a new bridge over the river and got a completely different view on St. Peters than the usual.
Agree a day is good for Vatican City so as I had been there previously, I only spent one night in Rome using my 4 or so hours of daylight to walk from Termini to Vatican and back. Took a new bridge over the river and got a completely different view on St. Peters than the usual.
Jan 11th, 2015, 06:27 AM
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Liechtenstein has 3 railway stations, regularly served by regional trains: Schaan-Vaduz, Forst and Nendeln
There are furthermore frequent buses to the Swiss railway stations of Buchs SG, Sargans, Sevelen and Truebbach as well as to the Austrian railway station of Feldkirch.
The railway station of Monaco Monte Carlo has exits to both countries: Monaco and France.
The Vatican has the railway station Roma San Pietro (most Pisa bound reginal trains stop there)
There are furthermore frequent buses to the Swiss railway stations of Buchs SG, Sargans, Sevelen and Truebbach as well as to the Austrian railway station of Feldkirch.
The railway station of Monaco Monte Carlo has exits to both countries: Monaco and France.
The Vatican has the railway station Roma San Pietro (most Pisa bound reginal trains stop there)
