European Villages: Any undiscovered gems you wish to share?
 

Are there any villages in Europe you've come across that are relatively 'untouristed' & full of original charm, gorgoeus buildings & untouched pristine landscape? ...like the kind of places Cortona & Brugges etc USED to be say 10 years ago?

well, they wouldn't stay "undiscovered" or "untouristed" for long then, would they? :)

yes, let me think about it.

yes, but I am not willing to share either...

Several come to mind, but I really don't want them to become another Brugge.

If a place could really live up to your introductory sentence, KJ, I'm afraid it would already be discovered. <BR><BR>I can mention a few little towns that I particularly like. First the ones that are not 'untouristed' but have not been trampled yet (or at least the last time I checked; just last week I recommended Brugge based on my 10-year memories). <BR><BR>Dinan in Brittany, Dambach La Ville in Alsace; Miltenberg Germany(just south of Frankfurt), Neckargmund (south of Heidelberg), Bacharach on the Rhine, Uberlingen on Bodensee; Lutry, Cully, Rivaz & St. Saphorin on Lac Leman in Switzerland, Altdorf, and Iseltwald on Brienzersee, Thun on its lake (not sure how discovered it is, Solothurn and Schaffhausen -- beautiful small cities. You'll say, of course, that a number of these are not truly undiscovered. Maybe they just don't get the respect they deserve. Same goes for Rapperswil on Zurichsee, or has it become too popular? I spent seven wonderful days there many years ago.<BR><BR>I'll finish with my two top votes for undiscovered villages. These are two little places where you will need to pull back, slow down, and look closely, or you won't see what makes them special. They are Gerra Gambarogno at the Swiss end of Lago Maggiore and Harburg just north of Munich on the 'romantic road.' <BR>Be my guest, but speak softly and leave them as you found them, thanks. J.<BR>

Here's the answer I would LIKE to give, but it sounds rather smart-alecky.<BR><BR>You may have my list, but I would appreciate it if you don't go to any of them if you intend to speak any English.

There are a few villages on the coast of Bretagne (Brittany), France, between Brest and Quimper, but their exact names escape me. But like with anywhere else, you've got to go to these places in the off-season to really feel like you've got something "pure". Also, a few places in the Swiss Alps - Wengen, also in the offseason, because it has no cars; and Klosters. Plus, some of the small wine villages around Geneva, Switzerland; and finally, in the Jura mountains, around the Lac du Joux region in Switzerland, there are some villages that will make you feel like you've gone back 50 years or so - but again, depends what you like...

Brugge is not a village, it's a city. Even 10 years ago, it was still a city. <BR>However, two Austrian villages that I love and that are far from the Vienna/Salzburg/Hallstadt/Innsbruck tourist stampedes are Grunau and Seckau. We are spending 10 days in Seckau in August and can't wait.

What qualifies a village as undiscovered? A village that has never seen a tourist? A village with less than 25 tourists at any given time? A village that doesn't have modern day plumbing?

I think we all know what KJ means when he/she says "undiscovered," and I'm sure many of us has found a small place or two that we really like, that isn't listed in anybody's tour guidebook. Now my concern is, why does KJ want to know? He/she didn't say he/she is going to Europe, so why should he/she care what we think? <BR><BR>Personally, unless I am sure someone is actually going to Europe and has some likelihood of using my advice, I am not going to broadcast my little-known favorites to the world just for the ego trip it might give me.<BR><BR>Further, KJ obviously doesn't know much about Europe anyway, or he/she would not have thought Bruges was a small or undiscovered place ten years ago. This leads me to think the entire question was just a lark, to see what answers would follow.

&lt;&lt;KJ obviously doesn't know much about Europe anyway, or he/she would not have thought Bruges was a small or undiscovered place ten years ago. This leads me to think the entire question was just a lark, to see what answers would follow.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Is there anything wrong with a newbie asking a question here "just as a lark"?<BR><BR>Is there anything wrong with questions getting posted by someone who "obviously doesn't know much about Europe anyway"?<BR><BR>If newbies have to know the difference between a "worthy" question and one "not worthy", then we will have far fewer newbies.<BR><BR>And the loss of newcomers is the greatest single threat to the vitality of this forum. New visitors ask boring repetitive questions - - and they sometimes get the same boring repetitive answers, and every once in a while, the landscape changes, and new refreshing answers emerge to the same old boring questions.<BR><BR>And newbies also ask refreshing questions that obody ever though to ask before.<BR><BR>I don't expect them to know the difference beforehand.<BR><BR>So tell us, KJ - - why DO you want to know? Planning a trip? Writing a book report for school? Planning a theme party or hoping to redecorate your bathroom? Any of these would be valid reasons to ask the question.<BR><BR>Whether your particular reason will get people to "give up" their own personal "undiscovered gems" is another question!<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

Ten years ago I hadn't heard of Brugge. I started hearing about it around 1995 and visited in June 1996, and again in June 2001. The difference between 1996 and 2001 was sad. Brugge had certainly changed, be it a village or city. Many, many more tourists, shops, etc. Very crowded. Where we found almost no one who could (or would) speak English in 1996, almost everyone spoke English in 2001. It may have been more convenient with people speaking English, but some of the charm has been lost. That's not to say it isn't beautiful, and I'd go back, it just isn't the same.

I know but will never tell you...

There are villages in the Tirolean Alps that few people ever visit. The area around Bramberg is a good example.<BR><BR>The area around Kufstein, Elmau, Going, Worgl are others that are good towns to visit.<BR><BR>

Unfortunately, there are less and less. The minute they get "discovered" by outsiders, who want better toilets, better accommodations, more ATM's and everyone to speak English, etc.. that's it. Before you know it, McD moves in. Over and out.<BR>The only way to discover undiscovered gems is to travel the non-Fodor way. Don't ask for recommendations: just land, rent a car, hop on a bus or train, head out and see what happens.<BR>Enjoy!

Rex's critique of my remarks is absolutely accurate. I was a bit hasty, but I simply don't know why some people ask those questions. My apologies to KJ if I was rude.<BR><BR>Now, as Rex said, why do you need to know?

Thank you to everyone who has so kindly replied. My apologies for not revealing my intentions in my first message but there is certainly nothing 'devious' such about them - I am just in the early stages of planning my next trip to Europe. On my previous trips which covered England, France & Italy (no, I admit I haven't been to Brugges!) my favourite places weren't the big cities or the places frequented by hordes of tour buses but the quieter towns where visitors are far outnumbered by locals, the shops aren't geared towards selling tacky tourist stuff & are beautiful/quaint/ charming places where you can really immerse yourself in the local culture. So I guess what I was getting at in my original post is that I'm after some ideas for my next trip as I guess I'm looking for places that I'm less likely to find in guide books. Countries I'm considering so far are probably Italy (again!), Spain, Germany, Switzerland but I"m certainly open to others - maybe Eastern Europe would fit the bill better?<BR>Thanks again....

Okay, you satisfied my criteria to give up a few names. Anyone can dispute the "undiscovered" status of any of these places. No place is truly undiscovered.<BR><BR>But few of these places would make the top 25 (or maybe not even the top 100) of towns that Americans visit in Italy, Germany and eastern France (which is "almost" Germany).<BR><BR>Italy:<BR><BR>Bassano del Grappa - - http://www.comune.bassano.vi.it - - Romans discovered this one over 2000 years ago, and it has a modest tourist "industry" including one of the best little civic museums you ever saw. Huge collection from the sculptor Canova, and world's largest colleciton of native son Jacopo, also known as "il Bassano".<BR><BR>Trento - - You can read about it in the guidebooks. Hardly unknown, but not often visited by tourists whizzing by towards the Brenner Pass, traveling from Verona to Innsbruck.<BR><BR>Malcesine - - numerous references here to this lovely little town on the shores of Lake Garda.<BR><BR>Vicenza, if for no other reason than Villa la Rotonda (Villa Capra) of Palladio fame<BR><BR>Ambra and Bucine - - actually nothing there - - but maybe this is what you are really seeking. I rented a villa in Ambra in 1998.<BR><BR>Orvinio - - not to be confused with Orvieto - - a little one street town at the top of a very big hill in Rieti; about 45 miles east of Rome.<BR><BR>Menaggio - - plenty discovered, but less so than Bellagio, its better known sister a ferry ride away at the "Y" of Lake Como. Besides the fairly well-heeled hotels and restaurants there, I did go to mass there, and there were no other tourists there for that.<BR><BR>Germany:<BR><BR>I'll be more terse here - - let me know if you want more detail on any of these.<BR><BR>Get more info on most of them at www.cityname.de<BR><BR>Oberkirch (Black Forest)<BR><BR>Schonach (Black Forest)<BR><BR>Landshut (Bavaria, 35 miles north east of Munich)<BR><BR>Aachen (near Maastricht, NL)<BR><BR>Weimar (former East Germany)<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

SHHHHHHHHHH..... Cesky Krumlov (Czech Rep) Maastricht (NL).