Wdenham

My husband and I are going on our honeymoon this May. We want to do a road trip through part of Europe and are not sure if it is feasible. We are thinking about starting in Toulouse, France. We would spend 3 - 4 days traveling around the area and then would take a few days making our way to Zurich, Switzerland (maybe stopping in Lyon and Basel?)....from there we would like to make our way to Vienna (we are open to suggestions here) and finally to Budapest. We want to take our time and go with a "rough plan" (booking ahead for the places we will stay multiple nights:Toulouse, Zurich, and Budapest) but also want to be well prepared for the trip. We have 18 days to complete the trip.... My husband has been to France once and I have been to Italy once. We both used public transportation and feel like driving ourselves will be less of a hassle in that we could really take our time and stop wherever we want....but it may be more of a hassle in other ways.
My questions are:

1) IS THIS EVEN FEASIBLE? Are we planning too much in too short a time?
2)Is driving between countries relatively easy?
3) I know that many roads require tolls....is there a way to take care of this ahead of time?
4) Is driving/parking going to be extremely difficult in any/all of these places? Would it be better to take a train from Zurich to Budapest?
5) Is renting a car fairly easy and do you recommend we get the rental insurance offered or just make sure we are covered for rental from here in the states?
6) Can you recommend anything else that would help me plan this adventure??? (I know we are super late in the game, our other plans fell through and now we are in love with this idea)

Thank you for any and all information!

AndiM

Driving through Europe is great. Use google maps to check out driving distances between locations. I don't think you can pay tolls ahead of time. You will probably encounter tolls in France. In Switzerland and Austria, you will need to buy a sticker which grants you entry to drive on the roads in the country. It's been a while so I can't quote the prices. I believe you can buy these at fuel stations upon entry to those two countries. We didn't drive in Hungary. When picking accommodations, just make sure to check for suitable parking. In the larger cities, you'll probably opt to park your car and leave it for your stay. Public transport is easier in large cities. It is nice having a car to visit smaller towns between the cities. I don't know about insurance except that it's worth making sure you're fully covered! Be careful driving through restricted areas in certain towns. You can be photographed and sent a fine in the mail weeks after your trip!

Michael

Check rental one way rental costs on www.autoeurope.com. The cross-border drop-off charges tend to be steep. On the same site, check the lease costs. Depending on how much time you are spending on the road, a lease might make sense. Whichever you choose, check to make sure that you can take your car into former Eastern Europe. On the other hand, it might make sense to drop off the car in Vienna and take the train to Budapest. The most spectacular scenery will be in the Alps.

I would not go to Zurich. I would drive up the Rhone valley and drive down the upper Rhine valley, with possible detours to see the Interlaken and Luzern area, to Lichtenstein and then Austria.

Get a map of the Alpine region to plan the road trip, like this one: http://www.mapsworldwide.com/austria...ad-map-711.htm

kja

Congratulations and best wishes!

I can easily understand why you want to visit all of these cities (including Zurich), but I must admit that I would feel unpleasantly rushed if trying to fit Toulouse, Zurich, Vienna, and Budapest into a single trip of 18 days – but what matters is whether YOU can see what you want to see and experience in that time. I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location, check their opening/closing times on the internet, and mark them on a calendar. Pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together.

Driving between these particular countries is generally easy, and having a car can offer a freedom not otherwise available and a chance to see places that are not readily visited via public transportation. That said, there are also some downsides:

- For one thing, some of those “oh, doesn’t that look charming!” places aren’t actually that charming, and by the time you get back on the road, you can end up with less time than might be ideal for visiting the places that were your priorities.

- For another thing, driving can be stressful – and I say that as someone who loves driving! But some roads are challenging, unexpected detours or GPS failures can be a bit daunting, and driving into cities (and finding parking) can make the last part of a long trip less than pleasant.

- Driving – or at least responsible driving – can also pose constraints on the driver. For example, the driver may be unable to truly enjoy spectacular scenery, as s/he needs to pay attention to the road -- sometimes, very careful attention! And depending on how much one eats and one’s size and and how long one relaxes over a meal, even a glass of wine with lunch may carry risks.

- Driving is generally not a particularly green choice – and for some of us, that is a worthy consideration.

- And one of the best things about taking public transportation: It can sometimes give you wonderful opportunities to interact with people from the area, or gain insights into local norms and traditions.

Personally, for this itinerary, I’d opt for trains – JMO. ;-)

My single best bit of advice is to get some really good guidebooks, or consult them in your local library. They will cover all sorts of things you don’t even know to ask!

StCirq

A few thoughrs:

You will pay a king's ransom to pick up a car in Toulouse and drop it off in Budapest (someone has to drive that car back).

Zürich, IMO, is not a honeymoon destination. While it has some attractions, it's a very expensive, staid, business city.

You cannot pay tolls ahead of time, though you can find out what they will cost you on the viamichelin website. You can also plan routes that don't involve tolls. The toll roads are never fun IME. There's little to see except the tarmac and lots of big trucks.

Parking is a PITA in almost any large European city. And expensive.

It's very easy to rent a car. Before I moved to Europe I always rented from AutoEurope. Get the maximum insurance (unlikely you'd be covered for it already, though some credit cards will have extra options you can purchase - like Amex). AE will let you know if there are any restrictions on where you can take the car. Call them and talk to a human. As noted you will need vignettes for Switzerland and Austria.

If you're in love with this idea, go for it! For me personally, it would be honeymoon hell unless I had way more time and could travel at a leisurely pace on the back roads. Trains in Europe are entirely enjoyable, relaxing, and cheap; you actually get to see the countryside; there are no parking issues; and you get to meet people. Just my opinion, of course.

fourfortravel

As one who lives in Vienna and has the time to drive about Europe, I offer a few personal observations for consideration:

1) IS THIS EVEN FEASIBLE? Are we planning too much in too short a time?
Feasible, if you're okay with a not very relaxing holiday. I think you're planning too much.

2)Is driving between countries relatively easy? Yes. However:

A. Some of your proposed route is rather dull autobahn (i.e. the 500 or so kilometers from just-east of Salzburg to Budapest) unless you digress for a few kilometers along the Wachau Valley. Though, whomever is driving can't enjoy the scenery.

B. Construction is pretty much everywhere, taking time away from any anticipated Fahrvergnügen.

C. Road food options are, well, not the greatest. Ditto for some of the public facilities (especially Vienna to Budapest). A honeymoon lunch at an autobahn Landzeit is guaranteed not to be romantic.


3) I know that many roads require tolls....is there a way to take care of this ahead of time? You can purchase your Hungarian vignette online. The Austrian vignette can be purchased at the border.

4) Is driving/parking going to be extremely difficult in any/all of these places? Would it be better to take a train from Zurich to Budapest?
Parking is expensive in Vienna; there is no need to have a car within Vienna and Budapest. I find riding the old trams to be rather romantic.

6) Can you recommend anything else that would help me plan this adventure??? (I know we are super late in the game, our other plans fell through and now we are in love with this idea)

May can be a lovely time in Central Europe. I would scale back the holiday to 2 or 3 destinations, planning day trips along the way. Others may feel differently about Zurich, but I spent a weekend there and it didn't move me. I found it expensive and only marginally interesting, but because I was there for a school event made the best of the weekend. Now I just send my husband whenever our daughter has a tournament in Zurich.

If you're really determined to have a road trip, why not stay in one country or region the entire time? Maybe France? Maybe Bavaria/Salzburg/Salzkammergut? Or, you could combine Vienna/Prague/Budapest, with plenty of easily accessible day trips to round out the holiday.

Happy Planning!

bilboburgler

I might try and do more a loop, like pick up the car in Austria, tour the tops of Italy, the east side of France, the south of Germany and back to Austria or even Hungary.

twk

There's nothing wrong with a European road trip, even for a honeymoon, but I don't think the trip that you've outlined is a great idea. How you get there is often as important as where you go. When I did 2 weeks in Switzerland last year, I built the trip around the Swiss rail pass, using public transportation to get everywhere, because that's the optimum way to experience Switzerland. When I went to the south of France in 2011, I rented a car for the week I spent in the Dordogne, then the trip to Provence, and ditched it upon reaching the Cote d'Azur.

If you really want an 18 day road trip, then plan the trip around the car rental--go places where it makes sense to drive rather than use public transportation, and factor in drop off charges for the car rental (or consider a lease). Stringing together very different sites in a West to East road trip across Europe is not the way to go.

On the other hand, if you have certain destinations in mind, use the mode of travel that works best for getting to, and seeing, those destinations. You could see all the destinations on your list (although I don't think that's a really logical grouping of places to visit on one trip), but doing that be rental car would not be the way to do it.

You have to set your priorities, then build your trip around them.

Dogeared

First you need to realize that a road trip in Europe is not like a road trip in N. America or Australia. Distances between places/things of interest are far shorter and average speed you travel at is also far slower once you leave the major highways. So you need to look at a much smaller area of a map than you would at home when planning a road trip.

I would not combine W. Europe and E. Europe in one trip unless I was flying from one to the other.

Stop thinking in terms of 'Europe'. No one sees 'Europe' in 18 days. Instead, think in terms of areas. You could for example do a decent job of visiting the Mediterranean coast of Spain and France in that time. Or the coast of France and part of Italy. You could do a circular tour of the Alps in France and Switzerland.

Why are you starting in Toulouse? It is not usually an arrival city from the USA.

Heed the advice to avoid drop-off charges on a car rental, do a loop of some kind. Driving does give you more freedom to stop but it also makes the most sense when cities are not high on your list of places to visit. If you prefer staying in smaller towns/villages a car is great but if you intend to stay primarily in cities and the car is just to drive from one to another, you would be better off using the train. You don't need a car in any city and it is often just a PITA as noted above.

Minimize your moves. Every time you move you lose time that could have been spent in a place seeing and doing things. While you do see scenery, nevertheless, moving time is mostly lost time.

With 18 days I would not plan on more than 4 stops. You will see and do far more if you move less and you will also spend less. Every day you move will cost more than a day you spend staying in a place.

People often make the mistake of thinking that the way to get 'more out of their time' is to get to 'more' places. They define 'more' only in terms of quantity. Best use of your time is not in quantity however, it is in quality. The best way to get more out of your time is to spend it in places seeing and doing things, not moving between places.

If you stick with your original Toulouse, Zurich, Vienna, Budapest, I would strongly suggest that your best way would be by train from one to another. You can always hire a car for a day if you wanted to day trip from the city to somewhere nearby.

Wdenham

Thank you all for your replies! They have been extremely helpful.

From all of your answers, it seems like the best way to travel between these places would be to rent a car to travel through the south of France and then use trains the rest of the time, unless we do another 3-4 day stop over and plan other day trips, at which point it sounds like we could just rent another car (I'm mostly thinking Switzerland here--I don't think we would want a car in Vienna or Budapest, as I'm sure there is a lot to see by foot/bike/public transportation).

This brings up a few new questions:

1) Is Toulouse a good "home base" for the south of France in May? We looked at Marseilles and Nice as well but wanted to be a little more centralized. We also were a bit hesitant to stay in the region between Nice and Marseilles due to the Cannes film festival, which will be happening near the time we are there. We are from Montana, USA--which is a huge state with barely 1 million people--and are thus easily overwhelmed by giant crowds 24/7.

2) Many of you recommend not staying in Zurich. Thank you for your input! We also thought about Lucerne or Basel as a home base because they seem less crowded than Zurich...
OR
would it be better to skip Switzerland/Austria and go through Italy/Slovenia or Italy/Austria....I have been to a few places in Italy, which is the reason we were thinking Switzerland, but I am certain the my husband would love Cinque Terre and Venice, among others. I am re-thinking this part because it appears that this might save us some time (and money) between places and also because...

3) It appears that taking the train from Switzerland to Hungary, you have to go through the south corner of Germany. Does this count as a country for a Eurail pass, even though we don't intend to stay in Germany? And is the Eurail pass the way to go when visiting so many places? I used it in Italy several years ago but never between countries...I'm wondering about going through Germany because there is a striking price difference between visiting 4 or 5 countries.

4) On that note, are there car-rental places at/near the train stations? I know many airports are connected with car-rentals and think it would be much less of a hassle if we could just rent our cars at the stations where we arrive.


On a final and somewhat confusing note....
The places we have been most looking forward to are the south of France and Budapest, which makes it difficult since they are so far apart. When we first started thinking of honeymooning in Europe, we were thinking of flying between cities, mainly flying from Toulouse/Lyon to Amsterdam to Budapest and spending a few days in each area...We chose Amsterdam as a third destination because 1) we have always thought it would be a neat place to visit and 2) flying KLM gives you a free stop-over in Amsterdam and was one of the cheaper flights from France to Budapest. Do you think this trip makes more sense than the one I painted with our road trip?

I know this seems like a giant mess-of-a-plan. I appreciate all of your input! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Tulips

What part of the south of France do you want to see? I don't know Toulouse, but it doesn't say 'South of France' to me, as Nice would. Think about what you want to do and see. For a honeymoon i think Nice would be much more appealing than Toulouse. Or Provence; Avignon, or one of the smaller towns.

The film festival in Cannes is irrelevant, unless you stay in Cannes. You don't notice it at all anywhere else on the Cote d'Azur. The Monaco Grand Prix has more effect, particularly on hotels in Nice. But it's only a weekend. Don't let these things impact your plans.

Wdenham

Dogeared--
Thank you for your response, I had not seen it when I started typing my last reply. Being from Montana, we are used to covering long distances via car and are used to driving everywhere because we have extremely limited public transportation. It's good to know that it's much easier to cover distance in the US than in Europe.
As for seeing several countries, we had initially thought of doing the south of France and Budapest for 5-6 days each with a 3-4 day stop-over in Amsterdam while flying with KLM. You said that flying between places would a better way to travel between cities that are so far apart. Would you recommend we do that that?
We definitely thought about seeing a region instead of going through all of these countries...we just (unfortunately?) became very attached to the ideas of southern France and Budapest...however, with all of this input it is extremely tempting to just pick a region instead of trying to do it all. We just don't get to travel often and want to make the best of our time there! (But I definitely understand what you are all saying about quality over quantity).
Maybe we'll go back to the drawing boards....

Christina

Toulouse is NOT in the center of southern France. You cannot use Toulouse as a base and visit by day trips places east of the Rhone. If you look at a mpa, you can see that Marseille is actually pretty much the center. but it's a large city, I wouldn't use that as a base for day trips unless you only want to go to other cities/towns by train (which is possible, of course, you can visit Antibes, Cassis, Avignon, Nimes, Arles and Aix by train). BUt your comment that you chose Toulouse because it is more centralized than Marseille is curious.

Toulouse is just as easy to get to by flight as Nice or Marseille, probably, it's a major city. But no, you cannot use it as a base to see southern France. You can't use anywhere as a base to see places outside its area. Toulouse is fine to see around Toulouse (say Albi, Carcassonne, even Narbonne). YOu can't use Toulouse to see the Luberon or coastal towns east of Marseille as day trips.

What do you mean about wanting to see "southern France" from a base? If you have seen pictures of Provence and mean that, it is impossible from Toulouse. It's 400 km from Toulouse to Aix, for example. If you want to see the Languedoc, it's even too far for that. Even being from Montana, this is like staying in Helena and thinking you are going to be doing day trips to Billings or Yellowstone.

Cannes is not going to affect anything outside of Cannes, which is a small town.

I think you need to look at a map and understand the distances.

Wdenham

Tulips,
Thank you for that information! I had expected the film festival to have more of an impact on the surrounding areas.
As for Toulouse, we are not entirely attached to it. We thought it would allow us to see the coast of the southern France as well as the hilltop towns and more central areas. We also found relatively inexpensive tickets to fly there and figured we could avoid the crowds and traffic attached to flying into Paris or Lyon. At one point were thinking we might travel through southern France and then drive to San Sebastian and Toulouse seemed to be a straight shot. We are not attached to staying in Toulouse, it just seemed to be convenient and surrounded by beautiful towns. We are definitely open to suggestions on where to fly into/stay!
(Nice, Provence, Avignon, and some of the smaller towns are definitely on our "to see" list" and one of them is likely to become our home base, as Toulouse is indeed beginning to make less sense)
Thank you again!

Mimar

As twk says above, touring Switzerland is much better done by public transportation. Not every place in Swtzerland is accessible by car, in particular some of the cutest villages. And Swiss trains, boats, buses, etc. are seamlessly connected.

Two more caveats: the weather in May in Switzerland can be iffy. Clouds may cover the views of the peaks. And May is between ski season and high season; it's when gondolas, funiculars, ski lifts, etc. are closed for maintenance.

I don't think a railpass would make sense for your trip. The only exception may be the Swiss pass, that helps pay for scenic trips like the train to Jungfraujoch. If you buy point-to-point train tickets well ahead of time, you can save a lot. However, you may not have enough lead time for May travel.

You know, if you have a car, you don't need to stay in cities. You can stay in small towns, enjoy the spring countryside. If you like a small town and want to stay, drop by the Tourist Information Office. They will help you find a place to stay. Fortunately in May places are unlikely to be booked up.

If you want to go to cities, which is what you list, then traveling by train makes the most sense. Look at the site seat61.com for detailed information about traveling by train in Europe.

Tulips

Have a look at the map and check distances. It will be at least a 3-hour drive one way to get to the coast from Toulouse. Check driving times on Google maps and add 20% at least to the optimistic times they give.

I think you should do a bit more research to see what it is that you really want to do. Is it the Cote d'Azur, with Nice, Cannes (yes you can easily visit during the festival, but take the train), Antibes, Eze. Then stay in Nice. Perhaps combine a base in Provence for a few days, with a few days on the coast.

www.rome2rio.com is a handy site for figuring out how to get from A to B.

Wdenham

Christina,
I meant "centralized" in a general way--as a way to see central and southern France and possibly San Sebastian, as mentioned above. But our plans have changed and we instead want to focus on southern France. I should have been more clear and yes, I should have re-visited the map after changing plans. As I mentioned above, we will most likely not be staying in Toulouse since we have shifted our plans.
In Montana everything is very spread out and easy to travel to/from. It is not unusual to make a day or weekend trip to a town/ski resort/hot spring/etc. that is 3-4 hours away (For example, tomorrow we are driving nearly 3 hours to hike 2 miles in to a hot spring, stay for several hours and then driving the 3 hours home). We might also travel from Missoula to Glacier National Park and back in a day during the summer...This is crazy even to people on the East Coast of the US but it makes sense to us in Montana, as the driving is easy and the landscape is beautiful. We are used to driving long distances but I understand what your saying, as we will want to spend a lot of time sight seeing and less time driving. Thank you for your input.

Michael

<i>In Montana everything is very spread out and easy to travel to/from. It is not unusual to make a day or weekend trip to a town/ski resort/hot spring/etc. that is 3-4 hours away</i>

It does not work that way in Europe. While Montana's roads are open and wide, even county roads, making driving easy, European roads tend to be narrower and more stressful. In addition, speed limits are lower, so it takes longer to get from one place to the other. Superhighways are the possible exception, but they are also more crowded, and they are not as interesting as local roads as they tend to flatten out the scenery.

For example, if you want to go from Toulouse to Lyon and avoid motorways, the 348 miles will take you 12 hours.

https://www.viamichelin.com/web/Rout...=&arrivalDate=

StCirq

Toulouse cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered the kind of "base for southern France" that would allow you to get easily to the coast or to the iconic villages of Provence. It MIGHT be considered one of the gateways to the south of France, but it is NOT "the south of France." I love the place, but to me it's the kind of place you go to after maybe half a dozen trips to France, or the kind of place you go to if you want to get granular and visit Castelnaudary, Graulhet, Ravel, Albi, Castelnaud-de-Montmiral, etc.

As noted, unless you are headed directly to Cannes, there's no need to worry about crowds in surrounding areas. Those bling-bearers aren't wandering around the coast much, or if they are, it's in their yachts.

San Sebastián is a wonderful place, but it just doesn't fit into your plans logically or geographically unless you change course drastically. Again, you can't just bop over from the Toulouse area to San Sebastián, no matter what kind of distances you're used to driving. We drove (with a friend who is a maniacal driver) from our house 2.25 hours east of Toulouse last summer, with no stops, to SS, and it took 5+ hours, then another 2 to find a parking space. And we know the territory. It was a horribly unpleasant ride because there was nothing to see out the windows and the autoroute was clogged with massive trucks.

bilboburgler

The only point I'd make is that the speed limits in Europe are generally higher, but the density of traffic means the average speeds are lower.

Many European cities are not designed for cars but for people