AJ

A writer for a British newspaper wrote the following about the behavior of the Americans after winning the Ryder Cup: [Americans] "are repulsive, charmless, rude, cocky, mercenary, humorless, ugly, full of nauseatingly fake religiosity, and as odios in victory as they are unsporting in defeat." <BR> <BR>I saw an exhuberant and spontaneous celebration of family and friends after the win of a highly contested and immensely pressured golf tournament. I saw Americans rushing over the shake hands with Europeans, I heard interviews of Americans praising their competitors, and I saw Americans quick to call for order on the 17th green after the celebration got out of hand. <BR> <BR>What did others see?

Edward

I think a Boston television journalist made a good point when he said that the worst sports hooligans in the world--soccer fans--are in Europe, and this is sour grapes. I saw what you saw. (This same journalist said that if it weren't for the American "slobs" of the 1940s, a good portion of England and Europe would be speaking German today.) <BR>

Tony Hughes

It's true. but then we were just as bad at Valderrama and I remember a bit of nastiness at Kiawah Island also. <BR> <BR>There is an element of 'sour grapes'on the part of the European team/media etc, I would have to admit to that. What was a little nasty, though, was the players and wives jumping around on the 17th green before Olazabel had his putt. Apart from it being against the rules (Rule 2 , article 1 I believe), it was bad sportsmanship. <BR> <BR>The crowd and some of the American players must also take some of the blame: Geeing up the crowd before the Europeans took their shot should not have been tolerated. <BR> <BR>I hear Mark James said his wife had been spat on. I find that hard to believe myself but if it did happen the person should be strung up by their testimonials. <BR> <BR>On sunday night I was mightily p****d off with the result, especially as we had been leading for the first two days but I did have to agree with Colin Montgomerie that sections of the crowd had acted in an unsatifactory manner. <BR> <BR>To sum up I did think some Americans acted in a bad way but then bad behaviour isnt restricted to the USA. Let's sort it out at the Belfry in 2001.

Tony Hughes

Edward, dont start this war crap all over again. Are we supposed to be grateful to you for the rest of eternity? USA entered WWII for a number of reasons, not because it was pals with Britain (as opposed to England by the way). <BR> <BR>What you have to remember is that this was not a competition to find the Worlds worst sports fans. Whether soccer fans are worse or not is missing the point. What's wrong with admitting your fellow countrymen suffered from a little over-exuberance?

Paul J

Tony Hughes: While I haven't always agreed with some of your posts in the past. I must say you're "right on" in both of these posts. I'm as avid a golf fan you could ever find. I couldn't have been more impressed with Jesper, Sergio, and Colin's et al. play. Some of the things were unfortunate, but there are many fans who appreciated the competetiveness of both teams. Don't lose sight of the fact that sports writers opinions are no different than ours. They just have a larger forum to express their views....Paul J <BR>

Paul J

Tony Hughes: While I haven't always agreed with some of your posts in the past. I must say you're "right on" in both of these posts. I'm as avid a golf fan you could ever find. I couldn't have been more impressed with Jesper, Sergio, and Colin's et al. play. Some of the things were unfortunate, but there are many fans who appreciated the competetiveness of both teams. Don't lose sight of the fact that sports writers opinions are no different than ours. They just have a larger forum to express their views....Paul J <BR>

pam

I actually wrote a post re: this earlier today, but the ghost in the machine ate it.... In my morning paper today I read about the "ugly Americans" in Brookline--and am marveling that now we don't even have to leave home to be labeled as such. While I agree that golf etiquette was violated, as well as common manners, I do think it has all been a bit overboard to call the American team and fans "ugly Americans" for behaving in their/our culturally appropriate manner on our own soil.

dan woodlief

I think a lot like Tony on this one. I watched almost all the Ryder Cup, and I enjoyed watching the Americans celebrating, just as I found it refreshing to watch the exhuberance of European players like Garcia. They should have waited until Olazabel putted, but their emotions got the best of them after two days and four years of frustrations. Some of these guys, like David Duval, just don't act like this on most occasions. I have a feeling that most of the crowd was very well behaved. Did you see the size of that crowd? There were almost bound to be a few hecklers - the Ryder Cup atmosphere is just different than your ordinary golf tournament. You can't blame a whole country for the actions of a few, and the American players admitted that they were wrong to celebrate when they did. I think it will blow over quickly, but in two years I am sure the media on both sides will bring it up again in spades.

Edward

Tony: excuse me, but I was simply reporting what the journalist went on to say; I did NOT say I agree with him. <BR>

Tom

I watched every bit of the Ryder Cup from Saturday tee off until Sunday when the celebration was over. My thoughts are these: <BR> <BR>1. The Europeans were just plain "taken to school" for a great golf lesson on Sunday, and a good bit of their hyperbole is just plain sour grapes. When they led by 4 points, a virtual insurmountable margin, the complaints were at most,minimal...however after the loss, you'd think we were Satan incarnate. Go figure? <BR> <BR>2. No one should be treated rudely, i.e. "spit upon"...there is no call for that anytime, anywhere!!! <BR> <BR>3. Exuberance happens! Was the US wrong to celebrate with Justin Leonard ....perhaps, but I'll take emotion anyday! <BR> <BR>4. I do and don't feel for Colin Montgomerie. No one should be heckled like him. On the other hand, you do reap what you sew. Harken back to Valderama when old Colin turned his back on a US golfer who should have been conceded a putt...after the cup was decided, no less. Talk about a bad attitude on behalf of Montie. Perhaps Montie should reconsider his own actions...fans do have long memories. <BR> <BR>5. Ugly Americans....don't think so, at least not 99% of us. When I go to the Ryder Cup in England in 2001 I'm going to behave myself, enjoy myself and cheer for the USA. Bad behaviour...no, exuberance... you bet!!!

Thor

Who the heck gives a damn about a golf result? A bunch of wusses running around in their pressed trousers and designer shirts don't impress anyone. How about a real sport? Where are the best boxers from? The best basketball players? The best footbal players? The third best hockey players? I'm so sick of the damn Europeans on here that think they're so damn superior. If it weren't for the stupid Yanks spending their hard-earned money in your godforsaken backwaters, you'd be in another Great Depression.

cp

"Thor" has a pretty funny name for someone who's sick of damn Europeans.

Sheila

I too am a golf fan, and watched most of the coverage over the weekend. I am a member of Paul Lawrie's golf club (and didn't the boy play well?) <BR> <BR>I saw him stop a tee shot to call out "Can't you heckle a bit louder?". I saw Colin Montgomery interrupted no once but twice on the same tee, and lose the next 2 holes. I saw mild mannered Sam Torrance absoluely lose his cool not only because of what happened to Olazabal on the 17th green... at a point when, has he halved the hole, we could still have been taking the Ryder Cup home..but also because Tom Lehrman did not have the grace to admit anything was wrong. I saw marshalls egg on the chanting, waving their "Quiet please" sticks at the crowd. I saw American players egging the crowds on. I heard the British players being told to "F**k off home now" I heard Montgomery being told he was a "fat British F**k"" (which may be true but it's not a nice thing to say anyway...) <BR> <BR>And I saw Ben Crenshaw, who must be one of the world's nicest people, in tears of emotion; as was Andy Garcia (aged 19) and I saw Tiger Woods's coach whose name I've forgotten (Grogan?)deal with the whole picture in an adult and sensible fashion, put the complaints in perspective, and apologise for what it was appropriate to apologise for. <BR> <BR>And I saw some of the best golf I've ever watched in one of the best matches I ever watched. <BR> <BR>And I no more think all Americans are bad people than I think Manhattan is overrun by sleeping sickness. After all, do you believe everything you read in the "National Enquirer". <BR> <BR>And we'll whip your asses at the Belfry in 2001!!! <BR>

Bob

If just answering the question,"Is this what Europeans really think of Americans?" I would have to say, from my travel experiences in Europe, that, yes, these are, unfortunately, frequent adjectives. I have seen what I consider a love-hate relationship for many years. On the contrary, Americans tend to not be much nicer to Europeans at times with constant put-downs of the French in the U. S. media (sit-coms, movies, etc.), and the uneducated comments regard WW II, to name only a couple items. Respect for others' cultures still has a long way to go.

Al

Incoming!!! Here comes the firestorm!!! <BR>To spend one's time and spending a lot of money, too, in putting a small, white ball into a hole in the ground seems rather dumb. But to do it 18 times!!! And then to get all frothing-at-the-mouth about it -- well...

T Taylor

What a huge surging finish by the U.S. team. This was probably the most scintillating day of golf since the last round of the 86 Masters. I think the issue of whether the Americans were overly exuberant acting like the archetypal 'ugly' Americans should be divided into two parts. Firstly, I do think the timing of the display was ill-timed. There's no doubt that Jose should have been given an opportunity to halve the hole before such a bubbling of prematurely victorious emotion erupted. But that can be the only complaint-- the timing. The way in which they celebrated was not crass, cad-like conduct, it was a spontaneous exultation, not in-your-face, finger wagging, face-sneering, we kicked your jolly butts sort of stuff. It wasn't ugly, just poorly timed. I love Olazabal's game, but in this case I think the torero with all his machismo pomp was clipped by a bloodied and beleaguered late-charging bull which hadn't shown much fire up to that point. That kind of psychological reversal is probably a little hard to swallow. All in all, this little 17th green deal shouldn't obscure the utter dominance displayed by the Americans on Sunday. It was brilliant stuff against a sneaky-strong European team!

Julius

Al: If you haven't done it you wouldn't understand!! <BR>

Al

Julius, you have a point. Sort of like kissing a cow's back side?

Dave

I just wish we could all get along and be friends! <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>I didn't see the Golf Match or all the Halliballoo...but, knowing how people are (or have become) now days, I do not doubt that USA fans were rude and ill-behaved. We seem to 'glorify' rudeness and bad behavior from people/shows like 'Rosie'. Lately, the more rude people are (especially in 'putting down' other people), the more others laugh and pat them on the back! It's a socialogical sickness AND NOT just confined to Americans. We are losing respect for one another. And that will surely come of no good. I would like to also take a 'jab' at the news media. I do not even like or watch golf and they had me all hyped up (for days) and yelling and screaming in my car. "Wag the Dog" is not such a way out, nor funny, movie. Hitler, Stalin, and Milosavich have all used it (the media) for their own benefit. Peace my European Brothers and Sisters. Many of us (here) are indeed sorry and disgraced by the behavior of a few others. God Bless Goodness <BR> <BR>cdc

Ginny

Good question.... well, here's my take. <BR>1. As an American living in London I watched the Ryder Cup on BBC - the entire time the British broadcasters were making extemely offensive and rude remarks about all of the American players, especially as the prospects of a European win slowly diminished. <BR>2. As someone stated before, the scene on the 17th was a genuine outpouring of relief and joy, not meant to offend - my God, we ARE human beings... not machines...yes, Americans are outgoing, loud and they are REAL - they feel, they convey those emotions, I think that is alot healthier than keeping composed at all times (how boring)... <BR>3. And oh yes, who is it that has all of the hooligan problems??? Glass houses...