SEANNATHAN

First off...Thank you hunnym, Tulips & ira for your responses. The problem is that my wife has never been to Europe. It is our Honeymoon, and we only have 16 days to see everything. Here is my itinerary. Tell me what you think:

May 1st, 2005: Fly from Miami to Vienna
May 2nd & 3rd: Vienna
May 4th: Travel by train to Lucerne
May 5th & 6th: Lucerne
May 6th: Travel by night train to Venice
May 7th & 8th: Venice
May 9th & 10th: Open (maybe Florence/Rome)
May 11th: Venice to Paris via Orient-Express
(I got a good deal!)
May 12th, 13th & 14th: Paris
May 15th & 16th: Amsterdam

We fly back from Amsterdam on the 17th.

I know it's a lot! I wish we had more time. What do you think? Can you give me good ideas regarding places to see, restaurants for dining, and/or things to experience???

I really appreciate all of your help.
- Sean

TexasAggie

Sean - yes it is a lot but it IS doable. Just be prepared to spend a lot of time traveling in between your cities.
We did 4 cities in 10 night on our honeymoon last June and had a blast. It was DH's 1st trip to Italy and he also wanted to "see it all". We're going again in May and this time we will spread 4 cities over 12 nights (two of the cities are Sorrento and Positano so they are only 30 minutes apart).

Anyway... make sure you do the Secret Itineraries tour of the Doges Palace. I believe the tours in English start at 10:50am, but you need to be there 20-30 minutes early to get your tickets. You definitely need to have reservations. The number is 041-291-5911 - call several days in advance. I believe it was about 12€ per person and SO worth every cent!

bobthenavigator

Sean, Sorry, but that is far too much travel time. It may work if you drop Luzern--why so far just to come back to Venice?

ira

Hi Sean,

>we only have 16 days to see everything<

Aye, that's the rub. You can't possibly see "everything" in 16 days.

Who is going to do the packing and unpacking?

Have you calculated how many of your 16 days will be spent "in transit"?

Is this a honeymoon or an expedition?

You really should plan on 4 nights for each place you stop.

Your wife will be much happier (whether she knows it or not) with just a few stops.

You have your whole life to travel.

Slow down and stop to pick the roses.

bardo1

"and we only have 16 days to see everything"

I pray the two of you are in fairly good health and have at least another decade (or many more hopefully) left in your lives in which to travel.

nytraveler

Sorry -

but this sounds more like a plan for the D Day invasion than a honeymoon. Cannot imagine anything less romantic - except a group tour.

You will not have time to see many of the major sights.

You will not have time to do any of the romantic things - relaxed strollls after dinner, cafe sitting and watching the world go by , a few nice dinners - perhaps even an evening's dancing

since you will be so stressed out about trains, packing, unpacking findng the new hotel etc.

Please eliminate at least two desinations - I would limit yourself to 3/4 cities at most if you want to do any relaxing at all (are you going to be up a 7am every morning? - not my idea of a honeymoon!)

janis

Please listen to everybody. There is absolutely no way you can see "everything" in even one country in 16 days. So to try is only going to set yourselves up for frustration and exhaustion. This IS your honeymoon afterall.

inseatd of "everything" try to see fewer places and enjoy yourselves more.

ira's suggestion for 4 days per stop is a good rule of thumb. Some cities demand even more and a few you could get by w/ just 3 days. I would definitely drop lucerne on this trip.

And I REALLY don't understand going to Venice, leaving for two days and then going back just to catch the Orient Express. I'd reorganize the route so you are visiting Venice the 2 days immediately before the Or. Exp. to Paris.

SEANNATHAN

Thank you everybody for your advice! Most have suggested dropping Lucerne. Even though my wife has never visited Europe before, I have taken the tedious bus tour. I visited Lucerne and found it very charming & romantic. I always thought that I would return one day for my honeymoon. What if I dropped Florence & Rome (Spend 3 days in Vienna, 3 days in Lucerne, 3 days in Venice, 3 days in Paris, finishing with 2 days in Amsterdam)? What do you think? I agree. I do not want to plan too much. Please Help!

janis

This is slightly better - Still an awful lot of traveling. And 3 days/3 days/3 days? Not all those cities require the same time to visit.

But you may be stuck since I assume you already bought the Orient Express tickets. Then the Vienna/Orient Express/Amsterdam dates are set in stone because of flights and train tix.

If you could adjust those - I'd spend more time in Paris and less in Lucerne.

SEANNATHAN

Thank you for the response Janis. I agree. We should probably allocate time based on the location, rather than trying to split the time evenly between the cities. Yes. We have 15 days in Europe and we will fly into Vienna the morning of May 2nd, we will take the Orient-Express from Venice to Paris on May 11th, and we fly back from Amsterdam on May 17th. These items are set in stone. Which of our desired cities should I allocate more time to? We have 10 days before going from Venice to Paris (if we take night trains). Our options are Vienna, Lucerne, Venice & maybe Rome. How would you split up the time? The second part of our honeymoon is relatively easy. We have 5 days to allocate between Paris & Amsterdam. What do you think?

BlueSwimmer

Seannathan-

I think you are a wonderful fiance to plan this trip so carefully! As someone who was recently married, I want to tell you that you guys will be exhausted. Our wedding was small and fairly casual, but we could barely move for two days afterwards. All the stress leading up to the event, and then the huge amount of socializing you have to do make for a big energy drain.

I would put the most money into a great, comfortable hotel in Vienna, and plan to stay there for a few days to get over jet lag, rest, be romantic, etc.

Note that as honeymooners, you will need time to lounge around your hotel being romantic, sleeping in, etc. which will cut some time out of your sightseeing.

For a honeymoon, it's important to find a balance between vacationing and touring. Every couple I know has gotten into fights when they go to Europe together for the first time, from the stress of having to manoever in foreign languages. I think that we all have very romantic expectations of Europe, too, and then we find that we are our same old selves, getting tired and cranky from too much sight seeing, etc.

So.. build in time for relaxing alone together, be prepared for some stress, and try to minimize it by a little less travel time- enjoy the experience, don't think of this as a once in a lifetime trip.

Just decide that you will have to go back to celebrate your anniversary one year!

So...I humbly suggest:

4 days Vienna

2 days Lucerne (since you have your heart set on it.)

4 days Venice (staying put in the same hotel, but maybe taking a day trip to Verona or one of the lake towns) Rome is too far!

For the Paris/ Amsterdam leg of your trip definitely allocate more time to Paris, if you think you will be the type of people who fall in love with Paris.

Finally- does your fiancee have her heart set on anyplace in particular?

Also, is staying in Venice a must for you? You could consider renting a glorious villa in the Italian country side and a car for a few days and touring around to small towns.

Best wishes for a great wedding, honeymoon, trip and life together!

SEANNATHAN

Thank you for the wonderful response BlueSwimmer! I really appreciate it. Here are a few more details. We got married December 11th. We decided to take our honeymoon in May when the weather would be better in Europe. I like your idea about Paris. Maybe we will spend 4 days in Paris and only one day in Amsterdam before we fly out the next day. We are planning on doing nothing but relaxing & being romantic in Lucerne. I believe 2 days is good for this location. How about 3 days in Vienna, 2 days in Rome (10 hour overnight train ride from Lucerne) & 3 days in Venice? Still too much??? What do you think about overnight trains?

BlueSwimmer

Oh- then you won't be too exhausted from the wedding. Smart idea.

I honestly think you should give Rome a miss and stick to Northern Italy. Everyone here says Rome deserves its own vacation anyway. Two long train rides aren't worth two days there, IMO.

My experience on a night train, when I was young and adventurous, was that it was not precisely restful or fun. We did it to save paying for a hotel since we were students.

You don't have to go to Rome to get a quintessential Italian experience. My favorite city is Bologna; Venice is romantic, Florence is stylish and full of art, the small towns are charming and the food and wine is amazing almost everywhere.

Don't worry so much about seeing Rome as just being in Italy. (Unless there are specific sights you are dying to see in Rome.)

Click on Ira and Bobthenavigator's names to see all of their posts on Italy. Take a look at Slowtrav.com for more great italy information.

Have a great trip! I am getting jealous!

Surfergirl

If you spend more time in Venice, then you can take a day trip to Verona -- how romantic would THAT be!

janis

I would really try to add more days to Paris, but w/ your train/air schedule 4 days looks about the max you can manage.

I agree w/ everything BlueSwimmer and Surfergirl say.

4 days Vienna
2 days Lucerne
4 days Venice w/ a day trip to Verona
4 days Paris
1+ days Amsterdam.

This would be a much better pace and still let you see a LOT

SEANNATHAN

Thanks a lot everyone! I like the 4 days in Paris & 1 day in Amsterdam idea for the second leg of our honeymoon after the Orient-Express ride from Venice to Paris. I have not yet solidified the first leg in my mind yet. What about 3 days in Vienna, 2 days in Lucerne, 1 day in Milan & Lake Como (on the way to Venice), and 4 days in Venice (including day trips to either Verona and/or Florence)? My wife really wants to see Rome, because she is half Italian. Do you think 2 days in Vienna (followed by a 10 hour train ride to Lucerne), 2 days in Lucerne (followed by a 10 hour train ride to Rome), 2 days in Rome (followed by a 5 hour train ride to Venice) and 2 days in Venice is too much? It is difficult balancing time with desired locations. lol What does everyone think? I am getting close to making a decision. It is our Honeymoon, so I am being careful with my decision making process. Thanks again for your advice!

janis

And here I thought we had you straightened out and off that 3 days / 3 days / 3 days mish mash

and now you want to do 2 days / 2 days / 2 days . . . and w/ 10 hour train rides in between?

I would NOT go to Rome for only 2 days especially with the long rail trips to/from. Hopefully Venice/Verona would be enough of an "Italy fix" for your wife. if not you are back to square one.

janis

unfortunately you now have 5 threads about your itinerary running simultaneously. You're getting all sorts of info -- but because of all the threads, not everyone answering knows about the other parts of the itinerary. (just one reason you are getting some conflicting advice)

BlueSwimmer

If her heart is set on Rome, why not see if you can fly on a low-frills airline to save time?

got1tiel

Seannathan, unless you two have travelled extensively together:
SIMPLIFY YOUR ITINiARY or risk that you end up fighting during your honeymoon