Europe with 2 small kids
Dec 21st, 2004, 06:45 AM
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Europe with 2 small kids
Hi all. My wife and I are considering a short trip to Europe in the Spring or Summer with our two kids. By the time of the vacation, one will be 3 1/2 and the other will be 8 months or so. (There's a chance that the younger one will stay home with the grandparents.)
I'm looking for suggested destinations and pros and cons. We live in NJ and don't want too long of a flight. Without having done much research at this point, we are considering Belgium, Paris, Budapest and Amsterdam.
Any suggestions? Thanks much.
I'm looking for suggested destinations and pros and cons. We live in NJ and don't want too long of a flight. Without having done much research at this point, we are considering Belgium, Paris, Budapest and Amsterdam.
Any suggestions? Thanks much.
Dec 21st, 2004, 06:50 AM
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I asked a similar question recently, although my kids will be a little older:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34543843
I'm sure you'll get more responses here but this will give you something to skim over in the meantime.
Good luck and have a great time.
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34543843
I'm sure you'll get more responses here but this will give you something to skim over in the meantime.
Good luck and have a great time.
Dec 21st, 2004, 06:51 AM
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need SOOOOO much more information to be helpful. Where have you already been? what do you want to do when you get there? what does "short trip" mean? Are you looking to goto one place or many?....................
Dec 21st, 2004, 07:08 AM
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highledge,
Good points. "Short" means a week or 10 days. We'd probably only go to one (overnight) destination, but possibly two (meaning the second is a fairly short train ride).
What are we looking to do and what are we looking for? Swimming would be nice but not essential. Museums. Family-friendly, good restaurants. Good parks. Friendly people. We enjoy immersing ourlelves in the day-to-day culture. We are not the types to run around to see "everything", particularly with small kids.
Good points. "Short" means a week or 10 days. We'd probably only go to one (overnight) destination, but possibly two (meaning the second is a fairly short train ride).
What are we looking to do and what are we looking for? Swimming would be nice but not essential. Museums. Family-friendly, good restaurants. Good parks. Friendly people. We enjoy immersing ourlelves in the day-to-day culture. We are not the types to run around to see "everything", particularly with small kids.
Dec 21st, 2004, 07:15 AM
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We took our then 4 yr-old to Luxembourg last Christmas and he and his then 4 month old sister to Luxembourg, northern France, Brugge, and London this summer. She will be just one and he will be two weeks shy of six when we go to Luxembourg and Paris in March. Each has done very well. The only problem we had was getting my son to adjust to the time change on the first trip. We pushed through the day we arrived the first time and took 1.5 hour naps and laid around the rest of the day (went out for dinner and a little walking around) this summer and did much better.
Only you know how well you kids will travel. My son is great. We drove 11 hours when he was two. No TV, stops for gas, one stop at a park to play, and he did great. Only fussed once it became dark. He, and so we, think nothing of long drives for vacations and going to see family. All of this indicated to us that he would do well on a long flight, esp. on light of the individual monitors on the 777s.
We are still trying to figure our daughter out. She did great this summer, but was so little and slept about half the time. She does just fine on the 3.5 hour drives to her grandparents' house and did well on two 5.5 hour drives over Thanksgiving.
I would try to make the same observations and see how they might apply to your kids. If you do go, and I think you should, just be patient with them, your spouse, and yourself. Getting there and back is stressful enough without a family to take care of. See the things you want to see, but work to make it fun for your children. Stop in a park to play, feed or chase the ducks, play I spy at art museums, etc. My son has been to some wonderful art museums and can recognize the style of several artists. He has a memory game where the pictures are of impressionist paintings, so we always look for paintings or painters he knows. This makes it so much fun for him. He has also been to Giverny, Normandy, and several other places that are scenes for Monets, so we try to go places that will have Monets.
At the same time, we walk into any museum with the knowledge that we may only be there for one hour. A good example of this is the British Museum this summer. We were blowing and going the whole time we were in London because we had a short time (3 days). All of us were tired, and the only thing he wanted to see was the Egyptian exhibit. He did well through the exhibits on the way to the mummies (This was intentional. We acted like we were looking for it and could not find it. It was like a hunt for him, and we were able to see many other exhibits). After we visited the Egyptian exhibit, he was ready to go. My wife took him and our daughter to the gift shop while I made my way through some of the exhibits on british history. We were there maybe 1.5 hours and could have spent soooooo much longer, but it was free and we saw the things we really wanted to see. No big deal.
I do not know if these ramblings help. I encourage all of my friends with young children to go to Europe if they want to. You know if it will be fun for you kids and if they are up to the trip. If such is the case, there is no reason not to go if you can afford it and have the time.
Only you know how well you kids will travel. My son is great. We drove 11 hours when he was two. No TV, stops for gas, one stop at a park to play, and he did great. Only fussed once it became dark. He, and so we, think nothing of long drives for vacations and going to see family. All of this indicated to us that he would do well on a long flight, esp. on light of the individual monitors on the 777s.
We are still trying to figure our daughter out. She did great this summer, but was so little and slept about half the time. She does just fine on the 3.5 hour drives to her grandparents' house and did well on two 5.5 hour drives over Thanksgiving.
I would try to make the same observations and see how they might apply to your kids. If you do go, and I think you should, just be patient with them, your spouse, and yourself. Getting there and back is stressful enough without a family to take care of. See the things you want to see, but work to make it fun for your children. Stop in a park to play, feed or chase the ducks, play I spy at art museums, etc. My son has been to some wonderful art museums and can recognize the style of several artists. He has a memory game where the pictures are of impressionist paintings, so we always look for paintings or painters he knows. This makes it so much fun for him. He has also been to Giverny, Normandy, and several other places that are scenes for Monets, so we try to go places that will have Monets.
At the same time, we walk into any museum with the knowledge that we may only be there for one hour. A good example of this is the British Museum this summer. We were blowing and going the whole time we were in London because we had a short time (3 days). All of us were tired, and the only thing he wanted to see was the Egyptian exhibit. He did well through the exhibits on the way to the mummies (This was intentional. We acted like we were looking for it and could not find it. It was like a hunt for him, and we were able to see many other exhibits). After we visited the Egyptian exhibit, he was ready to go. My wife took him and our daughter to the gift shop while I made my way through some of the exhibits on british history. We were there maybe 1.5 hours and could have spent soooooo much longer, but it was free and we saw the things we really wanted to see. No big deal.
I do not know if these ramblings help. I encourage all of my friends with young children to go to Europe if they want to. You know if it will be fun for you kids and if they are up to the trip. If such is the case, there is no reason not to go if you can afford it and have the time.
Dec 21st, 2004, 08:22 AM
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If one of the things you would like is swimming I;m not sure why you would pick only major cities. With two small kids you might want to consider a holiday in a resort - where you could rent an apartment or small house - which would make living with the kids a lot easier - breakfast and unlimited snacks at home. Perhaps somewhere on the French Riviera - where there are a lot of cultural opportunities - but many small in scope (1/2 hours) - and great food - but often more casuale than in big cities. A ot of small towns to explore, parks for kids and beaches.
I'm sure others might reco a house in Tuscany - or somewhere in Spain or perhaps even a gite in the Loire.
I'm sure others might reco a house in Tuscany - or somewhere in Spain or perhaps even a gite in the Loire.
Dec 21st, 2004, 08:55 AM
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Ten days...Belgium, Paris, Budapest, Amsterdam...two small kids - I don't think this is a viable formula. First, I think you should either eliminate Budapest or totally regroup your idea and pick two-three Eastern Europe locations. Second, four places in 10 days with small kids is, IMO, too much wandering around, which detracts from your "immerse ourselves in the culture" approach. Third, I agree that your stated objectives don't match very well with big cities, and that you would likely have a more enjoyable time renting a place near water and taking daytrips. There is an endless supply of such places in Europe.
Dec 21st, 2004, 09:05 AM
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DanM, nytraveler, St Cirq:
DanM, Thanks for the overview. We take our daughter (just turned 3) to the Met in NYC all the time. She likes it, but 1 1/2 - 2 hours is the max. She travels well, but not as well as yours. When my wife and I travel alone we tend to take it pretty easy, so that certainly wouldn't change with the little people.
St Cirq, sorry that I wasn't clear. We are thinking of hitting ONE of those places (or somewhere else).
st cirq, nytraverer, Renting a place outside the city may well be a very good idea.
DanM, Thanks for the overview. We take our daughter (just turned 3) to the Met in NYC all the time. She likes it, but 1 1/2 - 2 hours is the max. She travels well, but not as well as yours. When my wife and I travel alone we tend to take it pretty easy, so that certainly wouldn't change with the little people.
St Cirq, sorry that I wasn't clear. We are thinking of hitting ONE of those places (or somewhere else).
st cirq, nytraverer, Renting a place outside the city may well be a very good idea.
Dec 21st, 2004, 09:43 AM
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If you are thinking of leaving one at home, why not the older one? It is easier to travel with an 8 month old than a 3 1/2 year old.
I haven't read all of the responses yet, but I think that you are too fragmented. What about renting a villa in Southern France or Italy?
Cheers,
Jan
I haven't read all of the responses yet, but I think that you are too fragmented. What about renting a villa in Southern France or Italy?
Cheers,
Jan
Dec 21st, 2004, 09:58 AM
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Dave, I agree with the above posters comment. That being said my second question to you is why Europe? Your kids will not remember the trip. You will endure a transatlantic flight and you will do the zoo/park activities that you do at home. The only way you will do museums ect is if you split up and one of you may duck into a museum for an hour. For 3 round trip tickets at high season you can put that money toward a lovely family vacation closer to home. Save the European jaunt for a few more years. I hope I dont sound too negative but "been there, done that" too many times to count BUT I did it because of family visits. I had back-up once I arrived. Although my youngest is now a teen the memories are still vivid.
Dec 21st, 2004, 09:58 AM
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SloJan,
Yes, indeed I am fragmented. Perhaps I was premature in posting, but I'm just now considering the possibility of the trip. I was just trying to get some "I had a great experience [here] with my kids" responses to help my thought process get going.
I want to take my 3 year old because I want her to have the experience.
Yes, indeed I am fragmented. Perhaps I was premature in posting, but I'm just now considering the possibility of the trip. I was just trying to get some "I had a great experience [here] with my kids" responses to help my thought process get going.
I want to take my 3 year old because I want her to have the experience.
Dec 21st, 2004, 10:49 AM
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Dave,
My 3 1/2 year old son has been to 6 foriegn countries including 3 in Europe.
It doesn't bother me the he won't remember details of these trips in a few years. We could go to Point Pleasant and he's not going to remember in 3 years - does that mean we shouldn't go?
The important part is the time you're spending together. If you can be in Paris and have fun, and he's having fun why is that so bad if he forgets in 2 years?
As I see it, the "experience" will be the time you spend together and their ability as they grow older to be comfortable in a new environment.
In terms of a place to go, I will say that a beach area will be more enjoyable for them than a city. I'm just not sure how interested a 3 1/2 year old will be in the D'Orsay. If you're considering a trip to Europe, perhaps you think about a few days in Paris and a few days somewhere like Cannes or Nice.
My wife and I view our trips with our two children as chance to spend plenty of time with them. But, we also view it as a time to enjoy a break from our careers. For that reason, we view getting a babysitter to come at least a few times during a vacation as a chance for us to spend some time alone having a normal dinner.
If you're thinking about something not to far from NJ that is maybe less ambitious than Europe, we've had great family trips to Cancun, Acapulco, and Barbados. On our vacation in Novermber, we spent a week in Cancun followed by 3 nights at Disney World. We'd definately do that kind of itinerary again.
My 3 1/2 year old son has been to 6 foriegn countries including 3 in Europe.
It doesn't bother me the he won't remember details of these trips in a few years. We could go to Point Pleasant and he's not going to remember in 3 years - does that mean we shouldn't go?
The important part is the time you're spending together. If you can be in Paris and have fun, and he's having fun why is that so bad if he forgets in 2 years?
As I see it, the "experience" will be the time you spend together and their ability as they grow older to be comfortable in a new environment.
In terms of a place to go, I will say that a beach area will be more enjoyable for them than a city. I'm just not sure how interested a 3 1/2 year old will be in the D'Orsay. If you're considering a trip to Europe, perhaps you think about a few days in Paris and a few days somewhere like Cannes or Nice.
My wife and I view our trips with our two children as chance to spend plenty of time with them. But, we also view it as a time to enjoy a break from our careers. For that reason, we view getting a babysitter to come at least a few times during a vacation as a chance for us to spend some time alone having a normal dinner.
If you're thinking about something not to far from NJ that is maybe less ambitious than Europe, we've had great family trips to Cancun, Acapulco, and Barbados. On our vacation in Novermber, we spent a week in Cancun followed by 3 nights at Disney World. We'd definately do that kind of itinerary again.
Dec 21st, 2004, 10:58 AM
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dave:
Sorry I initially misunderstood.
I've been traveling with my now-teenage kids since they were infants. It doesn't bother me that they don't remember every trip - in fact, they do remember a lot more than I ever expected them to!
Anyway, some of the places they and we enjoyed when they were very young were the Italian lakes, the Dolomites, Provence, and the Dordogne. We always spent a few days at the end of the trip in a big city, and while we and they enjoyed that immensely, it was easier on all of us to be in a quieter setting and to have our own place to come home to and cook in at night and settle in.
Sorry I initially misunderstood.
I've been traveling with my now-teenage kids since they were infants. It doesn't bother me that they don't remember every trip - in fact, they do remember a lot more than I ever expected them to!
Anyway, some of the places they and we enjoyed when they were very young were the Italian lakes, the Dolomites, Provence, and the Dordogne. We always spent a few days at the end of the trip in a big city, and while we and they enjoyed that immensely, it was easier on all of us to be in a quieter setting and to have our own place to come home to and cook in at night and settle in.
Dec 21st, 2004, 11:25 AM
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Thanks Ryan.
I'm not concerned about her remembering it for the rest of her life. I want her to go for the experience and for everyone to be together in a different environment. (Now, if my wife and I could manage a trip with just the two of us, I'd certainly change my tune.)
Thanks for the tips.
I'm not concerned about her remembering it for the rest of her life. I want her to go for the experience and for everyone to be together in a different environment. (Now, if my wife and I could manage a trip with just the two of us, I'd certainly change my tune.)
Thanks for the tips.
Dec 21st, 2004, 11:38 AM
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No problem Dave. Having traveled quite frequently with my son, I will say the single best investment we made was in a portable DVD player.
Regardless of where you go, definately think about using one to combat boredom on the airplane.
Regardless of where you go, definately think about using one to combat boredom on the airplane.
Dec 21st, 2004, 12:19 PM
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Ryan,
I had already thought of the DVD player. Very necessary for a trip like this.
I'm also starting to think of splitting the trip... half in a city, half away from the city, perhaps near water.
I had already thought of the DVD player. Very necessary for a trip like this.
I'm also starting to think of splitting the trip... half in a city, half away from the city, perhaps near water.
Dec 21st, 2004, 01:14 PM
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My kids remember squat from age five and younger. I don't care. They were with us, we were with them, it's all that mattered.
I'm thinking that's YOUR thinking.
If you want a beach vacation, I'd stay in the states and go to Kiawah Island, etc. --thos places that are family friendly, non-honky tonk, where you can get a nice routine going (swim, bike, play in sand, swim, nap).
However, if you are a glutton for punishment like we were, take the kid to Paris, get an apartment near one of the major parks/gardens (I'm seeing you and the 3 1/2 year old in Luxembourg Gardens as I write), and enjoy. Read "Paris to the Moon" by Adam Gopnik and you'll see why I'm having visions.
I think you guys could just settle in with a really smooth daily routine. Daddy and daughter shop for the croissants at the local boulangerie, all three (or four if the rug rat comes with you) then hit a museum by metro, eat at a cafe, come home and nap, playtime at the parc, etc..
I'm dripping with envy...
As soon as you said "She loves the Met" I think you're in hog heaven in Paris. She'd love the Rodin, the Orsay, Picasso and she would simply adore Pompidou (would love to see her face in front of the Kleins).
There's a huge kid park out at La Villette. You can even take a canal trip out to it. Then there's the picnic opportunity at the garden of Versailles.
Hmmm, should tell hubby I'm thinking about having third child instead of empty nesting...
I'm thinking that's YOUR thinking.
If you want a beach vacation, I'd stay in the states and go to Kiawah Island, etc. --thos places that are family friendly, non-honky tonk, where you can get a nice routine going (swim, bike, play in sand, swim, nap).
However, if you are a glutton for punishment like we were, take the kid to Paris, get an apartment near one of the major parks/gardens (I'm seeing you and the 3 1/2 year old in Luxembourg Gardens as I write), and enjoy. Read "Paris to the Moon" by Adam Gopnik and you'll see why I'm having visions.
I think you guys could just settle in with a really smooth daily routine. Daddy and daughter shop for the croissants at the local boulangerie, all three (or four if the rug rat comes with you) then hit a museum by metro, eat at a cafe, come home and nap, playtime at the parc, etc..
I'm dripping with envy...
As soon as you said "She loves the Met" I think you're in hog heaven in Paris. She'd love the Rodin, the Orsay, Picasso and she would simply adore Pompidou (would love to see her face in front of the Kleins).
There's a huge kid park out at La Villette. You can even take a canal trip out to it. Then there's the picnic opportunity at the garden of Versailles.
Hmmm, should tell hubby I'm thinking about having third child instead of empty nesting...
