Europe for extended periods (6 mo +)
 

Has anyone gone and stayed for 6mo or more? My hubby and I are thinking of doing that in approx 5 years. (we figure that should give us time to: 1)save enough money to pay bills here and not work there 2)learn at least Italian well and French and German ok)
Any advice? Stay permits, visas, Do's Don'ts, etc??
We are currently thinking:
Accomidations:
1)Home exchanges
2) Extended rentals
3) RV it! :)
Transportation:
1) RV + Scooter(see accomidations)
2) Ship a car over
3) Take European deliver on a Mercedes (you can have it there for up to 6 mo before they require it to head for the US)

Other suggestions? We have traveled alot-but this is totally new and after some preliminary research we are not find much out there...

Thanks!

First thing to learn about is Schengen

Basically you treat the countries in Schengen as one "country" to which you can visit for up to 90 days in the 180 days after 1st entry to the "country" of Schengen. All other time has to be spent outside of that "country"

And note Schengen is NOT the same as the EU nor is it the same as Western Europe

Excellent! Got it!

I suggest you look more closely at the Schengen confederation. You can stay 90 days without a visa; however, if you want to stay longer in one of the Schengen countries, such as Italy, you can by obtaining a visa. Requirements for a visa vary by country, so you should check with the consular authority of any country you intend to visit long enough to need a visa.

I assume you are American? If so, the rules say that you can only be there 90 out of each 180 days (which means you can't leave for a few days and then return and start another 90 days). Any more than that and you are supposed to get a visa (I don't know much about that process). But I've had many friends stay in Europe longer than 90 days without any problems. I think no one pays attention if you are in a relatively "trouble free" country, and you don't get in any trouble and come to the attention of the authorities. Many of my friends are willing to risk it -- you have to decide if you are. I have no idea what would happen if you are "caught."

If are lucky enough to live in a "desirable" city (NY, DC, San Fran, Las Vegas, Miami) you might get a home exchange. I tried it a few years ago -- I probably sent out 500 inquiries -- no one wanted to exchange for a house in Austin!

The RV could be as expensive (or maybe more) given the cost of gas, than renting an apt. It is possible to find fully furnished apartments for 1000 euros/month or less in most cities, and even less in smaller towns or countyside. If you are wanting a Mercedes anyway, that sounds like a great idea. A couple of car companies (Renault & Peugeot) have interesting lease/buyback deals that are much better than long term renting.

The most I've spent is 3 months over there, but doubt 6 months is that much different. If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them.

There are a lot of other details that need to be handled before leaving home for such an extended time, but 5 years should be enough planning time! ;-)

Good luck!
RondaB3 at yahoo

<b>2)learn at least Italian well and French and German ok)</b>

This is going to be a formidble task to learn those languages. Possibly some CD which will give you jump-start lessons. Michel Thomas has a good series which can get you started. No books, no writing and just spoken language. You can find his CD's on Ebay and Amazon.

Blackduff

Thank you all!

Yep We are American. Located in Salt Lake City (so possibly desirable for a home exchange).

We are planning on using Rosetta Stone for the lang learning. I just think it would be rude to go for that long without learning as much as possible before-hand. Its one thing when we got for a week...but half a year?

I have just been checking out RVs and yeah, they are around $30K for the 6 months. Ouch!

Well, we will do our homework and try to be &quot;legal&quot; and get the Visa's but I'm afraid I might 'risk it' if there any problem with them...especially if I'm not trying to stay permanently or work...seems like it shouldn't be a problem.

Note that getting a visa will likely not be a big deal since you are NOT going there to work - maybe you'll be semi-retired?

Also, having the visa is protection for you in case you do have any kind of problem while there: like the international driving permit, not having it may not land you in jail, but it could cause serious interruptions in your plans, and in the worst case, could send you packing for home (and if someone else happens to be living in your house ...!)

While the US is in the midst of loud debate and many security considerations involving immigration and how people overstay visas, etc, we really should be serious about giving the same regard to rules elsewhere!

Keep us posted SLCL! You'll be living out a dream shared by many of us, and we'll be happy to know how it goes.

You might check your public library for information, too. I have a book called &quot;Living, Studying and Working in Italy&quot; with a ton of useful info. My copy is from 1998, but a revised version may be available.

Friends of mine spent a year in Italy in 98-99 and had no visas, but toward the end they were beginning to worry - they wanted to do some travel on the continent before heading back to the US, and faced the real concern that at any time someone could question their status. That said, no one ever asked for a visa when renting an apartment or car, etc, or even when getting short term car insurance.

Visa issue is irksome, involved and bureaucratic but not insurmountable. You need to bear in mind that Schengen visa-waiver (for US and other citizens) is meant to cater for the need of 99% of tourists and other short-stay visitors, so national visa for long stay is exceptional and involves a lot of supporting documents. Just find out, e.g. from the French Consulate in NYC website (one of the biggest) for what that involves. You need, for example, proof of adequate funds without the need to work (bank statements etc), health and medical insurance, where you'll be living (e.g. hotel reservations or rental agreement), reasons for needing to return to US (such as employment, home ties etc) and proof of travel tickets (preferable r/t). If you have a conviction of criminal or immigration nature anywhere in the world, you have to declare it and it can seriously jeopardise or delay your application. But otherwise expect it to take weeks, even months, for approval and eventual issuance of visa (often application has to be referred to the government agency or provincial authorities). So make sure you start the process well in advance of departure, like 6 months minimum.

Does it begin to seem like a 3 month stay, followed by another one 3 months hence, is the way to go?! You'd be handing your house over for half the time, come back and see the kids ... and no visa required! YOu can do fall and spring and have the best of everything.

Sorry - I guess that's MY fantasy showing.

Does anyone happen to know what would happen if you were &quot;caught&quot; without a visa (Schengen or not)? Just asking out of curiosity... ;)

partly depends on how you were caught and what you were doing when they caught you.

But - far from the worst case is you would be deported and not allowed to return.

If you get caught, it's possible that you will be banned from returning to any Schengen country for an extended time.

If you look at the trip carefully you may be able to do it legally - as long as you're willing to spend 90 days outside of Schengen after 90 days there and before another 90 days there. This is not that difficult if your plans are flexible - since UK/Ireland, Switzerland, Czech republic among others, are not Schengen.

Also - if you have ties (family and/or property) in the US, a good source of income, can prove medical insurance coverage and are of an age to be considered semi-retired you probably can get a longer visa - even if it takes some trouble.

Do not suggest just ignoring the regulations - since if caught you can be summarily deported - at your own cost (and lose any moneys spent on renting places to stay, car etc in europe).

nytraveler: FYI the OP hasn't been back since early June. The new posts are answering GillsinEurope who asked what will happen to them if they are caught w/o a visa

Thanks for answering guys. I guess we'll just have to decide if it's worth the risk or not, and if we do risk it....keep a low profile!

Thanks for answering guys. I guess we'll just have to decide if it's worth the risk or not, and if we do risk it....keep a low profile!

If I may say so, it would be very unwise to take such a risk.

We got a long stay retirement visa and it was a big pain, but doable. I know others that have just gone out of schengen area to avoid the problem. Some have stayed years and were not ever illegal. It is easier than most people think and a wonderful way to get to know Europe in a non-rushed way.

It takes a lot of work to plan but it really easy once you are here. We have been Rving around Europe for more than a year and absolutely love the lifestyle.

http://www.soultravelers3.com/soultravelers3.html

If there is a will, there is a way. Carpe diem!!

The UK is not a signee of the Schengen agreement and if there are some intersting requirements including those reagrding health care.

Ten or 15 years ago, someone quietly overstaying their tourist time allowance in Europe would have been tolerated (to a degree), were they minding their own business and paying their own way. We knew people in their 20s who traveled around Europe for over a year and didn't have any problems while they were there or when they left.

BUT there was still an element of risk back then and I simply wouldn't do it now. Everyone is much touchier about visas and the legal status of residents. That's just the way of the world these days.

Don't even think of shipping a car over. As for having the Mercedes in Europe for over 6 months, that doesn't apply to you as someone coming from the U.S. (well, Mercedes won't care, but immigration officials will). The six months normally refers to expats who are already in Europe and plan to use their car in Europe for their final six months before shipping it home.

Of course, if you do get a long stay visa allowing you to be in Europe legally, then you can have the Mercedes in Europe those six months.

I basically agree with Btilke although I personally know 2 or 3 people who have overstayed visas for a year or so recently and then come home to the USA. Of course, all of them are probably exceptions to the rule.

At this time your simplest program could be a ninety day stay in one country and a ninety day stay in another. Some countries allow re-admission after the ninety days and a cross-border excursion. As the USA cranks up travel restrictions, some countries are making reciprocal arrangements. Get brave, try the USA Peace Corps. Married couples are eligible for some assignments.

Some of the &quot;Schengen country&quot; information given above was incorrect. Here is a &quot;copy and paste&quot; from the EU's own web site:

TO WHICH COUNTRIES DO SCHENGEN RULES APPLY?
Today, 13 EU Member States, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, plus Norway and Iceland fully apply the provisions of the Schengen acquis.

The ten new EU Member States, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, are not yet fully-fledged members of the Schengen area, since the border controls between the new Member States and the current members of the Schengen area are maintained until the EU Council decides that the conditions for abolishing internal border controls have been met. However, since the date of accession they do apply parts of the Schengen acquis, in particular in the area of police and judicial cooperation and of external border control.

EU Member States still outside the Schengen area are the UK and Ireland which have chosen to maintain border controls with other EU Member States (although they have been authorised to apply some of the provisions on police and judicial co-operation in criminal matters).

Also Switzerland has decided to join the Schengen area. This means that border checks on individuals will disappear in some years. Switzerland will have the same associate status as Norway and Iceland which are also not members of the EU.

Check out the EU's web site: http://ec.europa.eu/index_en.htm

Also, this section is especially geared toward your questions: http://ec.europa.eu/youreurope/nav/e...res/index.html

Here is a thread from Bootsnall about this subject from people who DID overstay and had no problem. It is inline with what has been my experience with other people that I have known.

http://boards.bootsnall.com/eve/foru.../m/12900172416

We agonized over this issue for a long time because long stay visa's can be expensive and endlessly time consuming and there are no guarantees that you will get it. I know many that did everything right and did not get it. Much depends on your consulate and how busy they are and which visa you go for and which country.

We were extremely relieved when ours came in, but it is not a process for the feint of heart.

In 5 years schengen will grow and add to this problem for people who want to travel long term.But there still are LOTS of great places to spend that time ( Turkey,Croatia, Morocco, UK etc) , so it is easy to stay legal and in the area indefinitely if you are not working.

6months and even a year goes by very fast and Europe is big with so much to see. It is dense tho, so actually gas turns out to be cheap in an RV and you get guarantee buy backs that will give you back about half. Go a little older and you will save a lot.

It helps to have two languages, but you don't really need more than that. It seems almost everyone in Europe has some English and its easy to learn basic phrases for each country and fun.

I would work on getting really fluent in the one that you need the most.Saturate yourself in it day and night ( radio in it, TV if you can find it, talk it at home,read it, finds friends that speak it etc).

Enjoy!

I think overstaying your visa is like many crimes; its only a problem if you are caught.

The days when they stopped you to check your papers are, in most places, gone. But if you have some dealings with the authorities (such as an accident, or even being the victim of a cutpurse) and they check your papers and note you have no valid visa, you are in a sticky situation and they are unlikely to be charitable. That means you would probably be immediately deported, and incur the costs attendant to that, probably including a pricey last-minute plane ticket.

I think honesty is the best policy, even if it requires some additional effort on your part.

Years ago I stayed for some years, but that was arranged by the military service; not a bad deal for a young person.

Bookmarking!

Considering this nation is going crazy on the subject of illegal aliens and those who over stay their visas--why would any American consider it ok to stay in another country over the limit of time allowed without a visa? This immigration question works both ways-and the excuse that you would not be working is just that, an excuse. It's not an acceptable excuse here or there.

Countries have regulations for long-term stays that address their concerns about foreigners remaining in their countries-considerations of health care, liability for debt, use of public services among them. The move here is to check the immigration status of everyone using a public service-hospitals, schools, even including the library and getting a bus pass. Using public utilities such as gas, water, electricity, telephone and banking accounts, require proof or residency. The police are encouraged to check immigrations stautus on routine stops and reporting of crimes. You can be sure the same is true in Europe.

Find the requirements for a country you'd wish to stay in-shop around for the easiest to fulfill-and get the visa. Then as a legal resident, you can tour other countries to your heart's content-legally.

Because the US is making it harder to get a visa, even for european nationals-other countries are cracking down and cutting less slack than they used to. Some posters have said go for it..but they admit they don't know what would happen if you get caught. Well I can tell you. If you are caught, you will be immediately held, then deported, your passport endorsed with NO ENTRY and you cannot enter the EU for 10 years. After that you may still be on the no-entry list, they don't have to admit you if they do not wish...so why jeopardize your ability to travel?

I have lived in Euope(legally) off and on for over 30 years. Most national governments keep central records on each citizen and resident and checking on you is very easy. The small town in Germany had our records 10 years after we left the country. They have long memories....so,

Do 90 days stays-with 180 days between.

Get a long-stay visa. Start early. Look a various contries' requirements. It's only paperwork, after all.

See if you qualify for a europen passport--Ireland, Italy and some other countries offer citizenship by descent, usually to children of parents or grand-parents born in the country.

I am sure some posters will slam me for this-but this forum is meant for those who have the knowledge or experience of a subject to pass it along to those who ask. In the academic world we have helped people get visas, had some who go into trouble with them an without them. Gotten visas ourselves for europe, lived there in several different countries and know people who got &quot;caught&quot; in the illegal alien catagory both here and abroad- and it's not pretty. Government is very harsh on illegals, no matter how innocent your intention were.

Keep it legal and breathe easy.

Judy and the Panda

The advice above from Judy and the Panda is very good.

You might also look at it this way: it's pefectly great to have no health insurance if you don't get sick, or car insurance if you don't have an accident. But when you do ...

You can plan to keep a low profile and certainly you don't intend to break any laws (other than the visa thing ...) but then something happens: maybe you get into a squabble with a local who damages your car while it's parked. He's smart enough to know how long you've been around town and suggests to someone to ask for your visa. (Which would happen anyway if the authorities had to intervene.)

You need to make a quick flight to another country because your cousin is going to be there for a few days, and at the airport customs is having a semi-annual check on entries and exits ...

The president of the country you're visiting is currently having a sparring match with our own president, and it really annoys the particular customs officer you're dealing with on exit after your 180=day visit with no visa ... so she enters you as 'persona non grata' in the system and you're blocked from returning to any schengen countries for, say, 4 years.

You break your leg because of a faulty handrail at a 4-star hotel, but you can kiss the lawsuit goodbye: you're in the country illegally as of last week.

Do these sound wacky? Well similar things happen all the time in the US! Legal status is a big deal, even if not always challenged. I can't tell you how many foreign students I've met in the US who can't go home for a visit because they will terminate their student visas, or similar situations.

It's great to be lucky, it's even better to have the law on your side.