Europe & Covid

Old Mar 5th, 2021, 01:02 PM
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Thanks Heimdall. France is not doing very well!!

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Old Mar 7th, 2021, 06:29 AM
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Status of Italy and COVID

I am (like all of you) waiting to get back to Europe, specifically to Italy. My friends in Italy say the vaccine rollout is a disaster. Both Pfizer and Moderna have drastically cut the number of vaccines they had promised to France and Italy. Italy in late Jan was considering suing one of them. The state of emergency was just extended till the end of April. Italy has currently vaccinated 5 million citizens out of more than 60M. There are a large number of countries from which one can fly into Italy, but Americans are are not allowed in. Travelers from UK are banned indefinitely. The restrictions are severe. I am hoping...it will be POSSIBLE that vaccine distribution might ramp up drastically during the summer, which will change the possibility of when fully vaccinated Americans can fly into Italy. If that doesn't happen in June, July and August, I am not sure when many of us can visit. Like most of you, international travel is a huge part of my life and I can't wait to go back and spend lots of money to try to get their economy going.
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Old Mar 7th, 2021, 10:43 AM
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Domestic US travel has replaced our more usual one or two trips to Europe per year routine
i fully expect the Verona opera festival to cancel again this year
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Old Mar 8th, 2021, 09:25 AM
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We don't really know whether vaccination will make people less contagious. Vaccines prevent people from getting full blown COVID19, but they are infected, and they do have viral load. Airtravel just isn't safe. It won't be safe this autumn either, I think.

And the EU ramps up vaccination slowly.
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Old Mar 9th, 2021, 11:08 AM
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Menachem, thank you for your opinion. Actually, there is quite a bit that is known.
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Old Mar 9th, 2021, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1;17220863[b
... [/b]Actually, there is quite a bit that is known.
Please explain. I heard Fauci say that it has not been sufficiently studied re, whether or not vaccinated individuals can spread Covid without having symptoms, yet I hear person after person saying they can. Inquiring minds want to know.


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Old Mar 10th, 2021, 02:56 AM
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"Airtravel just isn't safe" is yet another opinion.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Trophywife007 View Post
Please explain. I heard Fauci say that it has not been sufficiently studied re, whether or not vaccinated individuals can spread Covid without having symptoms, yet I hear person after person saying they can. Inquiring minds want to know.
Fauci's latest pronouncement (last night on Stephen Colbert) is that it is unlikely that a vaccinated person can carry enough virus in its nasal passage to infect someone else.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 01:31 PM
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Recent report from Israel is that fully vaccinated persons do not spread the virus. That's the good news.

Italy is locking down again. That's the bad news.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 07:39 PM
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Itís ironic how in some of these forums just 6 months ago, there were many comments, some not so thinly disguised, about how Americans should stay away from Europe and keep their coronavirus at home in the U.S. Now here we are and the U.S. has fully vaccinated nearly 20% of its population and the expectation is that the vaccine will be fully available to all who want it by May. Itís unfortunate that I will likely be unable to complete my Eastern Europe trip planned for last year to the Czech Republic, Hungary and BiH (thank you Croatia for welcoming me last September- you have a beautiful country!), much less make by 5th trip to Italy. But I will take my vaccinated rear end to hopefully Japan for my 3rd trip there late this year or if not, to some other country that has gotten its vaccination act under control like we have here in the U.S.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 11:06 PM
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MinnBeef, maybe Serbia? They are doing a pretty good job so far.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
Menachem, thank you for your opinion. Actually, there is quite a bit that is known.
No, the upshot is, that we don't know.
And so, out of a sense of prevention, it makes sense to respect this. We know the first wave spread through air travel. We don't know what effect there is on viral load after vaccination. It's important to realize that the present corona vaccines prevent you from becoming ill, even though you are infected. But you'll still spread your viral load around, unaware that you were infected in the first place. Now, add air travel.
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AJPeabody View Post
Recent report from Israel is that fully vaccinated persons do not spread the virus. That's the good news.

Italy is locking down again. That's the bad news.
Israel is a case in point: high vaccination rate, but also a high number of infections, and the ICUs are now populated by the 35-60 age category
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Old Mar 13th, 2021, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dukey1 View Post
"Airtravel just isn't safe" is yet another opinion.
I know you see it as your right, but really, it is not safe at this moment. What is so hard to understand? Maybe not even bc of travelling by airplane itself, but because of airports
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Old Mar 14th, 2021, 04:45 AM
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Europe and COVID

You know, as a couple of folks have said, we really just do not know enough yet about COVID, transmission, vaccines to be making definitive statements. We have to wait it out as more research comes in, about air travel, transmission, vaccine efficacy, etc. We do know a lot more now, but not everything.. I do want to say, however that it makes me sad to read comments about what country is doing what, etc. Indeed, America is now poised to do extremely well with vaccines over the next few months, HOWEVER, please remember that Pfizer, and Moderna (I am not sure about Astro Zeneca) BOTH reneged on their commitments (in fact their contracts!) on the amount of vaccines they would be delivering to the EU. I am not saying that is the only reason why the EU is struggling, there are certainly other reasons, but that sure didn't help. So, perhaps we should all just be kind to each other and those around the world, at this one year anniversary of this horrific disease and at least agree on the fact that we WANT to travel as soon as possible and we are all looking forward to that blessed day.
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Old Mar 14th, 2021, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by SusanG View Post
BOTH reneged on their commitments (in fact their contracts!) .
Nobody reneged. Delivery problems with new products are hardly unusual. The EU likes to blame others but remember they waited to place orders. They tried to strong arm lower prices. In spite of the fact Astra for example was selling the product at cost. They dragged their feet in approving the shots.

Compare how the UK handled things. They signed contracts while the EU talking heads laughed . They asked for the Astra data even before the trials had ended. They didn't whine about prices.
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Old Mar 14th, 2021, 07:57 AM
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I'm tempted to get reward tickets to Spain for September. I can cancel without penalty so no risk. I'm hoping they ramp up the vaccinations in the EU, and possibly allow some kind of vaccine passport for US and other non-EU citizens. I think some countries within the EU have such passports to cross borders.
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Old Mar 14th, 2021, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AJPeabody View Post
Italy is locking down again. That's the bad news.
Sorry to hear this news which reminds me that I don't recall seeing any posts from bvlenci for quite awhile. Hope she and her family are faring well through these tough times.

https://www.thelocal.it/20201105/map...w-tier-system/
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Old Mar 15th, 2021, 02:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Traveler_Nick View Post
Nobody reneged. Delivery problems with new products are hardly unusual. The EU likes to blame others but remember they waited to place orders. They tried to strong arm lower prices. In spite of the fact Astra for example was selling the product at cost. They dragged their feet in approving the shots.

Compare how the UK handled things. They signed contracts while the EU talking heads laughed . They asked for the Astra data even before the trials had ended. They didn't whine about prices.
Just to double down on this, last week senior EU politicians claimed that the US and UK were limiting EU vaccine production (not true). They have proven themselves unable to read basic information about at least one vaccine's test data etc etc. If it was not so deadly it would be funny.

Back in Spring 202 the Economist published a good article about vaccine buying. Two countries were ahead of the game Canada and UK. Both had bought more than they wanted or needed to pump prime the businesses to get things going. The Trump cabal were in confusion but the US were slowly catching up but trying to use the market rather than pump prime. The EU were still negotiating on prices which in AZ's case were at cost with claw back elements (how hard is that to negotiate). Even the Economist was screaming "get the orders in". Meanwhile the command led economies of Russia and China just told the factories to get on with it. Brasil (oh dear).

Right now, rather than use a perfectly good vaccine the EU is now looking at Sputnik. Brussels has dropped the ball again, and that is after doing a trade deal with China in Jan 2020 which is one of the most one sided I've ever seen. As my Italian friends say, it is easier to buy from Peking than London.

Last edited by bilboburgler; Mar 15th, 2021 at 02:46 AM.
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Old Mar 15th, 2021, 04:52 AM
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That's the sad thing. Too many times politicians make it political. This is a world wide virus and governments and drug manufacturers should be doing their best to help control the virus as much as possible. The airlines are the thing I am worried the most about. I have a voucher from United that I have to use by January 2022. And $1,400 is too much money to not use the voucher. I am thinking of traveling by air in the USA but that is risky right now too. I am getting the vaccine and I haven't had Covid yet thankfully. But right now, I would rather hop in my car and drive cross country then fly. But again, just throwing away $1,400 isn't something I like or want to do. I am hoping things are good enough to go to Germany in the Spring of 22. I just have to wait and see. I am not really afraid to travel because of the virus. But rather I don't want to go somewhere and be quarantined for 2 weeks in a hotel. That isn't my idea of a fun trip.
Thanks for all the replies. We really don't know how much back to normal things will look for the world in 22.
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