Europe 3rd Most Touristed City?
 

Harry Shattuck in an article on Berlin in the Houston Chronicle says:

"Berlin attracted about 7 million tourists last year, third among European cities behind London and Paris"

This surprised me as Berlin, compared to Rome and Venice and Florence gets less coverage here on Fodors at least.

Amsterdam i would think may be higher.

But maybe that 7 mill figure includes a lot of day tripping Poles?

anyway i'd of thunk Rome at least was number three.

And Harry adds these tidbits:

"Berlin covers 340 square miles, nine times the size of Paris"

(Harry's obviously swallowing some figures thrown out by Berlin Tourism - but is he comparing greater Berlin to great Paris - if so the nine times figure is baloney

or is he comparing greater Berlin to central paris - greater Berlin may come under one gvoernment and great Paris not but it seems comparing apples and oranges

"Berlin has 1,700 bridges, more than Venice"
(hamburg i think has more and 1,700 bridges spread out over an area 9 times the size of Paris is not all that many)

"More than 30% of the city is covered by parks, forests, rivers, lakes or waterways"

no doubt true and Berlin is a rather green oasis compared to most megalopolises

"Berlin's new central railway station is the largest in Europe"

that's what i've heard too

"Among Berlin's 3.4 million residents, 455,000 have a foreing passport representing 180 nations'

no arguemtn here and this cosmopolitan nature is another lure of what i find to be one of Europe's most captivating and intriguing cities

"Berlin's Television Tower is Germany's largest structure at 1,207 feet"

no arguement here either - a testimony to DDR technology i guess

"with 140,000 students, Berlin is Germany's biggest univeristy town"

again no argument

Well for starters, there are tourists and then there are tourists. I believe Germans make up a huge number of the tourists traveling around Europe. It's not unlikely that a great percentage of those tourists visiting Berlin are from various spots IN Germany. No one said Berlin is the number 3 destination for Americans, for example. How many of those 7 million are made up of other Germans for example doing a weekend trip?

But that said, I'd agree that Berlin is a GREAT destination. We first went for 5 nights and instantly decided we'd have to return soon as we seemed to cover so few of the things we wanted to do. Two years later we returned for another 5 nights. And I'm ready to go back.

It surprises me, too, as I would think Madrid would be higher, as well as all the Italian ones, and even Prague (which is very high in tourism from what I've read). Of course, that is tourists from everywhere, so maybe Berlin is really popular with Russians, Danes, Czechs, etc. Could be popular with other Europeans, as far as I know, I just didn't think so.

... I just read a source of that figure, and the majority of those tourists are other Germans.

NewPat- i think you're right about the tourism figures

and are definitely right on about Berlin being so amazing - like you i've spend several days there several years and it always gets better anticipating the next trip, especially since the townscape is chaning so much.

American tourists i'm sure many more in Rome and Florence and Venice than here.

But i'm still not buying totally the third most touristed European city - lots of Europeans flock to Amsterdam and seems it could be higher.

But maybe Italians don't flock to Rome like Germans may to Berlin - i was on a night train with two 23-year old Florence students and they had never been to Rome! and only one had been to Venice. perhaps they vacation more on the beach and not in cities.

The last figure (from some years ago) that I read for Venice was 14 million.

I think they are talking only about capital cities..so, for Italy, it will only include Rome. And then yes , I can believe the figure. Because when they say "tourists" probably are not talking only of vacation ones, but also other kind of tourism..like business. And Berlin is a big business destination. By the way, many spaniards visit Berlin.

Did you know, sweetie darlings, that before the earthquake in 1998 (or was it 1997?), Assisi received more tourists per year than Disneyworld?

define 'tourist'

define 'pilgrim'

do the two correspond?

". . .Assisi received more tourists per year than Disneyworld?"

Maybe, but I bet they didn't sell nearly as many goofy hats and mouse ears!!!

Pilgrims go to Prada; tourists go to Trigere.

Have you ever been to Assisi? The shops sell more junk than mouse ears. Want a glow-in-the-dark Padre Pio necktie?

m m - do you live in Idaho and is your first name Jaane?

or are you copying her posts?

just curious

In many cases tourist and pilgrim don't correspond. Let's say the people who does the "Camino" here in Spain are counted as pilgrims..and not tourist. The thing is a bit more confusing in Rome, where everything mixes up. But I recall of a travel agent I know saying that the organised tours or groups whose main aim in Rome is the Papal Audience or the Holy Week celebrations at the Vatican..are not accounted as tourism, but pilgrims (even if after the audience they go wild at the tourist spots ;)
I suppose the number of visitors (in general) should be higher in Rome than Berlin.

In 2006 there were 4.7 million hotel guests in Amsterdam.
This includes Dutch visiting Amsterdam (up 25% on the year before to about 600,000), and other Europeans.
The last figures I can find for US tourists is 602,000 in 2004, but the numbers have been increasng every year since. Only the numbers of asians has fallen.
Interestingly US citizens spemd only 1.84 nights in Amsterdam, Canadians even less - 1.83. Italians stay the longest - 2.25 nights.
So will you all stop getting up so early on your third day here and make it so you stay 2 whole nights! :)

I would point out that this is only hotel nights, not B&B's, appartments etc etc.

i wonder how 'drug tourists' figure in those numbers?

EXCUSE MOI? I am Thingorjus. I have been posting on Fodor's for over 7 years. My trip reports are legendary. How dare you compare me to some wack job from a state that I have never even flown over.

I don't have to copy anyone's posts, PalenQ. There is no one like me in Fodorville.

Off with your head!!!!!!!!!

Beside, MM is truly witty. Not just "half-witty".

LOL NeoPatrick!

I agree, Thin's trip reports and posts always crack me up.

>Berlin's Television Tower.... a testimony to DDR technology i guess
This is a good one :D. You really believe it's not imported product. ;-) Smørebrød, Smørebrød....

PalQ must drug tourists from mainland Europe settle on cities near borders - like Maastricht and Groningen, rather than on the expense of Amsterdam. And shockingly enough most people do not visit Amsterdam purely for the coffeshops and smart shops.:)

There is no one like me in Fodorville.

thank God for something!

i too like your posts and was just kidding - kind of - well sort of -- well maybe -

well my pants are on fire!

<And shockingly enough most people do not visit Amsterdam purely for the coffeshops and smart shops.>

i realize that. But wonder things like Cannabis Cup which draws several thousand yanks each Nov and when i go to coffeeshops i see quite a few americans who seem to be simply doing coffeeshops.

I would think there are enough potheads in U.K., France, Germany, etc. who came to Amsterdam not for legal pot and shrooms per say but because it adds a nice touch to one of the world's most beautiful and cultural cities.

they don't come just for but may chose Amsterdam over say Berlin for a week because of the coffeeshop culture and attitude as well as museums, etc.

Sometimes it really is hard to deny the numbers, isn't it?

NPR today said Rome's Vatican Museums gets 4,000,000 visitors a year

unless 1 in 2 visitors to Rome go to Vatican Museums that means number of 'tourists' would be much higher than 7 mill?

Don't forget that Vatican Museums are not Rome :)
That was what I was trying to say before, I'm sure the number of visitors of Rome is higher than Berlin..but there's a diference between vacation tourists, pilgrims..and the figures of the Vatican cannot be accounted for Rome..it's another country !!

so you think that Vatican tourists do not set foot in Rome or stay in Rome - hum - where does the Vatican put up those 4,000,000 tourists.

Where is the Vatican airport or train station they arrive and depart from?

there actually is a Vatican train station but it seems to be no longer used.

Yes , of course they do :) But that figures are for visitors (airport, hotels) and all of them are not what we label as "tourists". An example : a catholic parish organizes a trip to Rome through another catholic roman organization. They get to a Roman airport, accomodate on a Roman hotel (or convent, or whatever) ...but they are not accounted as tourists for Rome..but as pilgrims on a religious trip. Another example : an italian that goes to Rome because he/she needs some kind of paperwork that only can be done there..arrives at a Roman train station, goes to a roman hotel...but he or she is technically not a tourist.
I think that figures never can be perfect. Visitors figures are easier to do but who is a tourist and who is not..is not so easy to spot in capital cities.

Actually, Berlin is not that great for business. The population is declining so a lot of companies have not based there.

Now, they've built a lot of gleaming office towers (especially around Postdamerplatz) but I understand a lot of those are empty.

Tourism is a big mainstay but it seems like Berlin isn't as geared for American and British tourists as Italy, France and Spain. Not as much English signage and not as many English-speaking natives as one is led to believe.

And prices are actually very reasonable, lower than most Italian cities. Makes you think that if there was such heavy tourism, the prices would be higher.

Oh and the TV tower, I heard the East Germans had to call in the Swedes to finish it.

kenderina - i agree figures like that mean little because criteria used is not noted.

hotel overnight stays may be a better indication, etc.

No, not business...conventions !! I'm thinking they have to be cheaper to organize there that in other places..because most of my doctors here in Spain are too many times in Germany for a convention !!

Yes, I agree, PalenQ. I suppose the people who do statistics should think on better criteria ! Nowadays people move so much that some things that worked in the past ..work no more.