jalanc30

Ok guys, much appreciated inputs(lots to digest for the next few hours!). I'll take to my wife about cutting down on some cities as much as possible, and then post back here. Again, thank you!

PalenQ

Feb 26 arrive Rome
Feb29 depart Rome go to Venice (I already pre booked Scavi tour for Feb 28)
Feb 29 Arrive Venice
Mar 2 depart Venice to go to Florence
Mar 3 (or 2?) day trip to Pisa
Mar 5 depart for CT (is the storm damage that bad? we were really looking forward to CT)
Mar 8 depart for Barcelona
Mar 11 depart for Madrid
Mar 14 depart for Seville
Mar 16 depart for Cordoba
Mar 19 depart for Paris
Mar 23 Fly out Paris

You know this itinerary to me is not at all too rushed - I often do trips much faster - this a great itinerary IMO.

easytraveler

More is not better.

You really need to cut down the destinations and know for a certainty that this may be your first trip to Europe but it will not be your last, so plan for enough time in each big city to savor and enjoy that city. You WILL be going back to Europe - probably like many of us, over and over and over again. There will always be new places to discover and enjoy.

Second piece of invaluable advice you've received so far is:fly. Look into the budget airlines. The earlier you book, the better the fares. Fly between the countries, i.e., between Italy and Spain and between Spain and Paris. You really do NOT want to go by train from Italy to Spain. I've tried to plot a good route and have always failed. Flying is fast and easy.

Once you've cut down on the number of destinations, then recalibrate your expenses to see if a railpass makes sense to you or not.

I see that one of the reasons you're considering the different travel alternatives is to save money. On another front: lodging - have you considered staying in B&Bs? Don't know where you're from, but European B&Bs are usually relatively inexpensive when compared to hotels and offer a great way to get to know local people and meet with other Europeans (that's one of the purposes of your traveling, right? To get to meet local people).

Good luck on your planning and bon voyage!

PalenQ

and what if it is your last trip to Europe? I do not find the itinerary rushed at all - stay with it IMO.

enzian

We rode a number of AVE trains in Spain last May and found little difference between first and second class, apart from the little bottle of cava and mediocre meal served in first class. The seats are very nice in either class. Those AVE trains are great!

Do you know how to find the discount prices on Renfe? You have to go to "purchase" for a date about two months out. The Fares and Schedules area will not show the discount fares.

Examples: Barcelona to Madrid, 47 euro in Turista class ( some trains are 58); Madrid to Sevilla around 33 euro.

Just make sure to buy the tickets far enough in advance so you do get the discounts.

daveesl

In Feb. 2010 it snowed about 2 cm in Rome, much of the rest of the time it was raining. Feb. 2010, 2011 in Paris it pretty much rained constantly (yes, we'll be back again this February) and was pretty cold. These trips were at both the first and end of the month.

Doing a ton of train travel is not such a great way to enjoy a trip. Taking the occasional train trip can be nice though, just not every other day. As we always say here at Fodors, count on losing at least 1/2 day for each location change and this doesn't include the packing/unpacking part.

Instead of trying to cram in all of Southern and Western Europe into your trip, whittle it down to a few cities. Use these cities then as bases and star out. As an example, we'll be in "Paris" for about 2 weeks. But, from our apartment there (where we'll keep our main luggage) we plan on training to Amsterdam for an overnight and doing an early morning leave/ late night return on a day trip to London. Now, we have been to London many times, but we've never done the Chunnel, so this is why we are doing this. We'll also be training out to Chartres and possibly Bayeaux. This isn't our first trip to Paris either. We just have a great deal on an apartment ($900 for 2 weeks). This is why we go in December and February, costs much less.

So reconsider your trip, think of what you really want to see and I'll just about guarantee it isn't the inside of a train station.


dave

PalenQ

So reconsider your trip, think of what you really want to see and I'll just about guarantee it isn't the inside of a train station>

nor is it as others, not daveesi, recommend, the inside of airports as flying between cities means - at least on the train you do see the lay of the Europe in between the cities - some real nice countryside often.

janisj

The point is train stations and airports are a given. But it is the <i>number</i> of them that is the problem. Spending almost as much time in stations/airports, on trains/planes, and in transit as they will actually "be" anyplace. That's the problem.

PalenQ

I do differ about trains - trains to me are a relaxing way of seeing the countryside - not the travail many make it out to be IME anyway. Flying however shows you zilch.

folks here routinely drive around Europe - suppose Janis would also say that is bad too, like spending too much time on trains?

No janis there is something in Europe outside the big cities you seem to gravitate to - the Europe in between - check it out!

Gretchen

Seeing the "Europe in between" from a train window? Oh, yeah, that's interesting--and it IS. But not "relentlessly" to use Pal' word.
I honestly think new travellers don't always realize that arriving in a big city (airport or train station) and making your way to the cab stand or Metro, finding your hotel and settling in to it, "discovering" the neighborhood, deciding on your sightseeing, etc. ALL the things that go into "seeing the sites/sights" in a new place every 3 days for a month is TIRING, plus it is truly only hitting those high spots.
This itinerary IS the stuff that a tour is made of--with the tour director at the front of the bus getting everyone on board for the next activity, with all the hotels plotted out, and the method of getting to them in hand.

easytraveler

Very good post, Gretchen. Very realistic.

PalenQ

The revised itinerary posted just above is in no way relentless on traveling - the initial one in the OP was but the 2nd one is a fairly typical itinerary for novice travelers.

Gretchen

YOU used the word "relentless" in your train post--take a look! LOL
I still think it needs paring, and you are an experience traveller, and may be able to do this--BUT would you really "like" to do it. It is STILL 10 places in 26 or so days.
It's their trip, but some of us are suggesting something that might give them something besides a fly by.

janisj

PQ: You have to explain to the OP that you personally think the train journeys are as important as the destinations. That you look through the prism of a train aficionado. Maybe the OP and his wife are too. But if not, they might be hugely surprised at how rushed their itinerary is and that they are mostly seeing Europe from train windows.

easytraveler

The view from train windows is not all the same during all seasons. The OP should consider what they are likely to be seeing from train windows during February. There's also the graffiti to consider.

PalenQ

janis - yes of course - there are folks who actually find riding first class trains relaxing - unlike airplanes that most find taxing IMO

janisj

PQ -- "<i>yes of course - there are folks who actually find riding first class trains relaxing - unlike airplanes that most find taxing IMO</i>"

Read what I wrote, will ya?? We ain't debating trains vs. planes (some journeys are better by one, some by the other). It is the NUMBER of stops/destinations during a short trip . . .

PalenQ

OK but some folks actually like to travel like that - OP could be one - there are three days in main cities - I agree a day extra in Venice, Rome and some days in Florence itself but the others stops IMO are just fine - maybe too many days in dreary Madrid IMO - instead day trip to Toledo, one of Europe's finest old-world cities that is much much more to the romantic notion of Europe than boisterous modern mugger-prone Madrid.