Eurail and trenitalia question??
 

Hello,
I have a 2 questions about this!
Ok, so my family was going to buy rail passes for the 4 of us, 2 adults, and 2 youth from eurail, as we saw that trenitalia does not sell them to peoople in the states.

So we are taking a overnight train from Bari to florence, and we would like to get the couchettes, but thats only in the 1st class,(comfort), as in the 2nd class is just regular seats according to raileurope. Now my question is, if we all get rail passes for 2nd class, is there a way for us to upgrade to 1st class for 1 trip if we pay extra? Or do we have to stay in 2nd class no matter what?

Last question, if you bought your rail pass from eurail or rail europe, and you go on to the trenitalia website, and try to book wit from there with your pass will it work? Because when im booking a train on trenitalia, i select global pass, then it asks me to enter the card number, so if i enter the number on therail pass from eurail(if they even have one) will it still work?

Thank you all!!!!!!!

First, you should be looking at Trenitalia, not RailEurope.

Depending on when you are traveling and how much, a railpass might not be economical. Trenitalia is having a kids travel free special.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...008916f90aRCRD

Even if you aren't traveling during the two months of the special, you can book the family discount on Trenitalia (it should pop-up when you enter the number of adults/children traveling).
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...003f16f90aRCRD

Additionally, I don't see any overnight train from Bari to Florence that doesn't reguire a train change in Bologna. I wouldn't want to change trains in the middle of the night.

>>>Last question, if you bought your rail pass from eurail or rail europe, and you go on to the trenitalia website, and try to book wit from there with your pass will it work?<<<

It doesn't matter who you buy the pass from as all passes sold to Americans are the same. It's just that some charge mailing fees while others don't, but they are all selling the same pass. Yes, you can buy your seats on Trenitalia selecting global pass in the drop-down box.

You should price all your trains on Trenitalia selecting the discounts in the fare drop-down box to see if you need a pass. A pass does not include seat reservations which are required on all the fast trains - AV,ES,ESCity (10€ or about $14 per seat,per train).

FYI - I entered Bari/Florence and a random date in August. Was only able to see 2nd class seats to select. I then entered Bari/Bologna for the same date (8/4) and could select the couchettes (the free children discount popped-up as an offer). Your problem is the 2nd leg of this trip only offers 2nd class seats.

I'm afraid I do;t understand - why would you want an overnight train (and a sleeper) when you have to get up and move to another train in the middle of the night. All of the night trains on this route show 1 or 2 changes. Getting any sort of sleeper seem to make no sense.

There is a night train with sleepers and couchettes from Bari at 2340 which gets to Bologna at 0613. There is also one at 0015 to Roma, arriving at 0629. So, you don't have to change in the middle of the night but, with just over six hours on the train, you won't get a full night's sleep.

Hi,
The children travel free will not work with us, one is 14 the other is 21.
The reason we would like a overnight train is because we are seing the football match against Italy and spain, it will end around 11, and we do not want to spend the night, so we would take the 23:30 train back.

We would not have to get up in the middle of the night, if it stops at aroudn 0630...

Thanks for your replies!

IMO consider the benefits of a first-class pass to be used on all trains as IME of decades of traveling on Italian tells me that the benefits of first class train travel or 2nd class are considerable and if you compare the price of the pass in first class to ordinary first class fares in Italy you will find the pass is a better deal compared to regular fares in each class than a 2nd class pass.

And here are some benefits of first-class train travel - seats are bigger with fewer usually in each train car and most importantly IME there are often quite a few empty seats in first class - and rarely so in 2nd class - folks with luggage will find luggage storage often much more relaxed in first class - I always can put my bags on an adjoining empty seat rather than fending for room in a perhaps already crowded overhead luggage rack. And the seats are more comfy - and all this is not to say 2nd class on ETR type fast trains is a cattle car - just that 2nd class is much more crowded - with often more seats in the same space, etc.

IMO tourists on the trip of a lifetime should apply the same standard to train travel as they do to their hotels and restaurants - if you are staying in pensions or hostels and eating from supermarkets then go 2nd class - if you are paying the typical Fodorite charge of say $200/night for a hotel pay the relatively little extra to go first class on Italian trains.

I have ridden literally hundreds of Italian trains and my experience tells me there is indeed a reason so many Italians themselves fork over the extra money to go first class.

for lots on Italian trains and passes I always hype these fab sites - www.seat61.com (Man in seat 61 often posts on this forum and he admitted that he too was 'an afficinado of 1st class train travel") and www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Check www.trenitalia.com for ordinary fares and if your credit card as many do adds a charge for foreign purchases figure that in when comparing to the dollar price of a pass. And the cheapest way may be the mini-fares and other online discounts but beware that these tickets I believe are non changeable and non-refundable and must be booked way in advance to guarantee - the beauty of a pass is that you can decide as you go along which trains you want to take. i always travel with a pass in Italy and have never ever had any trouble getting the mandated seat reservations, whose cost you must figure into you pass vs regular tickets analogy) right up until the train often though I would do it a few days earlier and you can do at any train station in Italy - if you miss the train you are only out the reservation fee and can use the pass on another train.

And to get the mini fares you should do so on www.trenitalia.com and be warned that this site has frustrated zillions of fodorites in the past - some saay the probems are rfixed but just last week there were more posts about how frustrating actually completing a transaction can be for novice users. Thankfully there are helpful folks like kybourbon, who posts above and knows every relevant thing about naviagting the trenitalia.com morass and can usually help you out if you ask in a post.

And about the first class question with a 2nd class pass - the general rule is that you would have to pay the difference between the 2nd class fare and the 1st class fare should you with a 2nd class pass wish to travel in first class on a train - I would do this - pay the supplement at a ticket window before boarding though I believe the conductor would do it also on the train but there is more and more a surcharge perhaps for doing this.

flexible

someone else just posted this take on first vs 2nd class on Italian trains on another current thread:

<I live in Italy and I can confirm PalenQ's warnings about assuming that 2nd class travel will be just as comfortable as 1st class travel. It is not. If you are tall, you are highly unlikely to be comfortable in many 2d class seats, and if it is summer, your chances of getting air conditioning that works are much, much higher if you book first class rather than 2nd.

I haven't got any opinion about buses vs. trains or rail passes vs point-to-point tickets, but I always advise my own friends coming to Italy to travel first class on Italian trains. I have noticed on message boards that there are persistent posters who inveigh against spending for 1st class tickets for ideological reasons. If you want to be sure to be comfortable, travel 1st class on Italian trains.>

IMO STRONGLY consider doing a first-class pass or first-class regular tickets - I believe but not sure the mini-fares of discounts also exist in first class like 2nd?

Thank you all!

1 last question!

Ok, we probably will get the 1st class rail pass now from PalenQ.

But, if we get the 2nd class pass from raileurope or eurail, will trenitalia know?

When your booking on trenitalia, it just asks for a global pass, and if i click the couchetts to bologna, then buisness to florence, its the same price on raileurope if you just pick 1st class.

So I guess what im trying to say is, if we get a 2nd class pass, enter the code number, and just click Couchetts and buisness, will it still work? Because we are probably making all the reservations on trenitalia.
Thank you!!!!!!!!

Have you even priced these tickets? There aren't any 1st class couchettes, only 2nd class. The price for a spot in a C4 is 53.90€ ($76). The cheapest 1st class pass (3 day) is $79 (saver pass) a day plus you would still have to pay the couchette supplement of 19€ ($27).

The general rule of thumb for 1st vs 2nd class travel in Italy on the fast trains on most travel/train websites is longer than 4-5 hours you might want 1st class.

>>>>Now my question is, if we all get rail passes for 2nd class, is there a way for us to upgrade to 1st class for 1 trip if we pay extra? Or do we have to stay in 2nd class no matter what?<<<<

NO, you can't upgrade. If you have 2nd class, you must be in 2nd class as they will come around checking tickets.

Since there aren't 1st class couchettes, you can save a lot of money by getting your kids a youth pass ($61 per day for the 3 day). For three days, you would save $182 just on the two kids. If you are taking mostly the faster trains, they are quite nice. Here is a picture of the AV fast train interior for 2nd class. You can see there is plenty of space. Luggage fits behind your seats in the angled area, overhead in the luggage racks and there are also luggage racks at the ends of cars.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg

But,if i go to book the reservation on rail europe for bari to bologna, 2nd class is just a regular seat, and 1st class is the 4 couchettes?

The picture bourbon portrays as typical of first class fast trains in Italy currently will be found on relatively few trains 0 just the newest Frecciaross trains which I believe run only on a few routes currently. I have taken literally hundreds of trains in Italy and the pictures in my mind look nothing like that - the picture does indeed look like first-class cars on most fast trains but currently very few second class trains - so do not judge second class by this picture which is NOT representative of most Eurostar ETR type trains, just the newest models running on a few routes.

GAC - Fodors top expert IMO on Italian trains says on another post:

<On the newest Frecciarossa and Frecciargento trains, second class is really quite good, even though the 4-across seating is necessarily narrower (seat and shoulder room) than the 3-across in first class, and consequently seat density is also higher. But many travellers don't find the additional cost of first class to be particularly justifiable on these trains: once again, an "opinion" rather than a "fact.">

And GAC is talking about the relatively few ETR type trains that are of these two newest types - the majority still being older ETR technology - thus the picture tha kybourbon shows is not at all typical of the second class carriages you are likely to encounter - once again that picture is NOT representative at all of what the typical second-class car on ETR (high-speed) Italian trains is - very misleading IMO.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ssainterno.jpg

even though this picture that was given as a typical second-class car on Italy's fast trains is not typical of many such trains - only on the newest of the ETR type trains that so far are a minority of trains I believe the picture does show one key difference between first and second class - 2nd class has 4 seats in a row and first class has three - a row of two seats and a row of one seat - and this to me is a key with first class - these so-called isolated seats where you have a window and an aisle and nobody next to you - no one to have to ask 'can I get out please' say you need to go to the WC or snackbar, etc. And to me having this seat is priceless - I can put my bag under me without bothering anyone else - like someone who needs to get out, etc.

These one seats in a row do not exist in 2nd class, at least I have never seen one in hundreds of trips on Italian trains - only in first class - couples can find these isolated seats facing each other with a nice table in between them.

So though this picture is NOT typical of what you will find in general on 2nd class fast trains in Italy yet you can well see how 4 seats in a row is far more crowded than just three and the ability to have a window and an aisle seat to me is precious - to others it may not be but IMO to say there is little difference is just not accurate - and I do not think that is a picture of a AV fast train but indeed of the newer ETR trains - the Frecciarossa train which though is an AV or Alta Velocidad (sp?) or high-speed train it is not representative at all IME of all AV trains. But I have not been on Italian trains for a year now and perhaps Trenitalia has scrapped all the zillions of older AV trains and now only have the Frecciarossa new trains.