Espagne, Olé! Ancient to modern, through Andalucia, Toledo and Madrid
Jul 3rd, 2015, 04:43 AM
#221
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Ozarksbill,
The Black Paintings are not easy to view and make sense of, but show such intensity of feeling that it's hard not to feel the passion. His work is so compelling!
Goes along with my interest in Bosch -- I'm fascinated by the strange and bizarre imagery, and can be completely absorbed by the paintings of these artists.
The Black Paintings are not easy to view and make sense of, but show such intensity of feeling that it's hard not to feel the passion. His work is so compelling!
Goes along with my interest in Bosch -- I'm fascinated by the strange and bizarre imagery, and can be completely absorbed by the paintings of these artists.
Jul 10th, 2015, 05:04 PM
#222
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progol, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to write such a detailed trip report. We leave for Spain in 4 days, visiting most of the same places and I've taken extensive notes for our itinerary. Thanks!
Jul 11th, 2015, 01:07 PM
#223
Original Poster
cybertraveler,
So glad you enjoyed my trip report! I hope you have as fabulous a trip as we did!
And, to whet your appetite for your trip (in more ways than one), I've just posted links to my photo albums on Flickr:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...p-to-spain.cfm
So glad you enjoyed my trip report! I hope you have as fabulous a trip as we did!
And, to whet your appetite for your trip (in more ways than one), I've just posted links to my photo albums on Flickr:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...p-to-spain.cfm
Jul 12th, 2015, 11:01 AM
#224
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Progol, in your magnificent and most helpful trip report, you mentioned using VEOAPARTMENYS for your Seville stay. We are looking at an apartment in Granada through VEO and I was wondering how the rental process was handled. It sounds like it might be different from location to location, but I would appreciate any input you can provide regarding their services. Thanks so much...loving your report and the great pictures!!!
Jul 13th, 2015, 06:33 AM
#225
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Progol it´s fun that you recommend dropping Malaga when you only went to Malaga and you said that your energy is also flagging a bit by this point in the trip so neither of you has quite the drive to see every sight or explore every nook and cranny of the city...
You only visited in Malaga: Mercado Central Atarazanas, Playa de La Malagueta, Picasso Museum or Alcazaba...
Them you added: by the time we got to Malaga, our energy for sights and museums had diminished so we truly did not “experience” all the city has to offer. There are certainly many good museums and galleries, and had we more time, we would’ve visited some of them. But we fully enjoyed the laid back coastal ambience, and spent a lot of time along the waterfront.
Seville is a great city but you say Sevilla has so much more to offer that you're really sacrificing a lot...well, I wouldn´t dropped Malaga in any case. The biggest Andalusian Mediterranean city, with so many things to see..
I wouldn´t miss:
The Museo Carmen Thyssen Málaga The main focus of the museum is 19th-century Andalusian painting based on the collection of Carmen Cervera, third wife of Baron Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza.
http://www.carmenthyssenmalaga.org/en
Museo del Vidrio
It is a private collection of more than 3.000 pieces of glass of different epochs, accompanied by pictures, furniture, and decorative objects in a setting that corresponds to each historical period represented, immersing us in an enviroment close to the domestic context of the era.
http://www.museovidrioycristalmalaga...les/index.html
La Concepcion Historical-Botanical Gardens
They were created in about 1855 by the Marquis and Marchioness of Loring and subsequently extended by the Echevarria-Echevarrieta family. They are home to an exquisite open-air collection of tropical and subtropical flora. Plant species from Europe, America, Asia, Africa and Oceania are all on show here.
http://laconcepcion.malaga.eu/opencm...tada?idioma=en
Gibralfaro Casstle and the mirador, historical place and amazing views of the city.
The old tobacco factory (tabacalera) and amazing building where you can find two museums.
http://www.museoautomovilmalaga.com/?lang=en
http://www.coleccionmuseoruso.es/
Visit to the Cathedral and the roof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsnh1VYgPgo
Fish in the quarter of El Palo or Pedregalejo http://www.restauranteeltintero.com/puerto/index.htm
Malaga is a biggest city in extension than Seville so to see the gardens of La Concepción, going to the old tobacco factory or to El Palo you might take a bus.
I hardly recommend going to Seville, Cordoba, Granada or Ronda, but not to miss Malaga, is the only city by the sea and if you are willing to walk, you´ll be surprised for what Malaga can offer to visitors.
Progol you might love Sevilla but you said that you had no energy to see every corner of Malaga...
You only visited in Malaga: Mercado Central Atarazanas, Playa de La Malagueta, Picasso Museum or Alcazaba...
Them you added: by the time we got to Malaga, our energy for sights and museums had diminished so we truly did not “experience” all the city has to offer. There are certainly many good museums and galleries, and had we more time, we would’ve visited some of them. But we fully enjoyed the laid back coastal ambience, and spent a lot of time along the waterfront.
Seville is a great city but you say Sevilla has so much more to offer that you're really sacrificing a lot...well, I wouldn´t dropped Malaga in any case. The biggest Andalusian Mediterranean city, with so many things to see..
I wouldn´t miss:
The Museo Carmen Thyssen Málaga The main focus of the museum is 19th-century Andalusian painting based on the collection of Carmen Cervera, third wife of Baron Hans Heinrich Thyssen-Bornemisza.
http://www.carmenthyssenmalaga.org/en
Museo del Vidrio
It is a private collection of more than 3.000 pieces of glass of different epochs, accompanied by pictures, furniture, and decorative objects in a setting that corresponds to each historical period represented, immersing us in an enviroment close to the domestic context of the era.
http://www.museovidrioycristalmalaga...les/index.html
La Concepcion Historical-Botanical Gardens
They were created in about 1855 by the Marquis and Marchioness of Loring and subsequently extended by the Echevarria-Echevarrieta family. They are home to an exquisite open-air collection of tropical and subtropical flora. Plant species from Europe, America, Asia, Africa and Oceania are all on show here.
http://laconcepcion.malaga.eu/opencm...tada?idioma=en
Gibralfaro Casstle and the mirador, historical place and amazing views of the city.
The old tobacco factory (tabacalera) and amazing building where you can find two museums.
http://www.museoautomovilmalaga.com/?lang=en
http://www.coleccionmuseoruso.es/
Visit to the Cathedral and the roof
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsnh1VYgPgo
Fish in the quarter of El Palo or Pedregalejo http://www.restauranteeltintero.com/puerto/index.htm
Malaga is a biggest city in extension than Seville so to see the gardens of La Concepción, going to the old tobacco factory or to El Palo you might take a bus.
I hardly recommend going to Seville, Cordoba, Granada or Ronda, but not to miss Malaga, is the only city by the sea and if you are willing to walk, you´ll be surprised for what Malaga can offer to visitors.
Progol you might love Sevilla but you said that you had no energy to see every corner of Malaga...
Jul 13th, 2015, 06:57 AM
#226
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What a wonderful report! I'm still working my way through it, as well as your separate post with your photos. You may have singlehandedly moved Andalucia to near the top of our travel list. My first trip to Europe was to Spain, including parts of Andalucia, some 15 years agao. For reasons that had nothing really to do with Spain, I didn't have a very good time, and I've resisted the idea of returning ever since. But you've readily convinced me that I need to return and soon. Thank you for taking the time to share so much of your trip with us!
Jul 13th, 2015, 06:33 PM
#228
Original Poster
dodi66,
My dealings with Veoapartments were pretty straightforward; when I booked the apartment, I provided a downpayment and then had to pay the balance in cash on the day we arrived. While I think they were professional in their dealings, there were several issues I had:
1) My initial reservation was cancelled about 5 months after I made my booking as a longer term tenant decided to extend her stay. They gave me the option to have my money refunded or transfer to any available apartment, and I ended up taking the sister apartment to the one I initially booked. But I wasn't happy about having to change, and I really wasn't that keen on the 2nd apartment, although there was nothing really wrong with it.
2) The person that met us at the apartment was new and didn't have a clue about the apartment, and couldn't answer any specifics. I should've called to ask for someone else to meet us, but by that point, we didn't want to spend more time with apartment concerns.
I have no real complaint, but after renting 2 AirBnB apartments and dealing with terrific hosts, I found the impersonal nature of an agency less satisfying than the more personal connection with a host. Of course, that can also become a problem, but we lucked out with the hosts for both our apartments.
My dealings with Veoapartments were pretty straightforward; when I booked the apartment, I provided a downpayment and then had to pay the balance in cash on the day we arrived. While I think they were professional in their dealings, there were several issues I had:
1) My initial reservation was cancelled about 5 months after I made my booking as a longer term tenant decided to extend her stay. They gave me the option to have my money refunded or transfer to any available apartment, and I ended up taking the sister apartment to the one I initially booked. But I wasn't happy about having to change, and I really wasn't that keen on the 2nd apartment, although there was nothing really wrong with it.
2) The person that met us at the apartment was new and didn't have a clue about the apartment, and couldn't answer any specifics. I should've called to ask for someone else to meet us, but by that point, we didn't want to spend more time with apartment concerns.
I have no real complaint, but after renting 2 AirBnB apartments and dealing with terrific hosts, I found the impersonal nature of an agency less satisfying than the more personal connection with a host. Of course, that can also become a problem, but we lucked out with the hosts for both our apartments.
Jul 13th, 2015, 06:45 PM
#229
Original Poster
alvamo,
I'm sorry I didn't have the time or energy to visit all the many sites and sights that Malaga has, and I'm glad we visited the city. Clearly there is a lot to see and, I have no doubt that to spend time in the city is to get to know it in a way few tourists really do. But this was our experience and I only share my feelings about my trip. It's a city I sense can grow on one, but one also needs time to let it grow, and so many of us have limited time for our vacations!
yestravel,
Thank you - so glad you got to see the photos! I was going to let you know I posted my photo albums, so I'm glad you found them!
I don't recall wildflowers between the cities, but perhaps others could chime in if there are any, and where to find them. I saw plenty of flowers at the patio festival, though! But, if I recall, you've seen the patio festival, too. Truthfully, the flowers in most of the gardens we visited had also passed their peak when we visited in May.
indyhiker,
<<You may have singlehandedly moved Andalucia to near the top of our travel list. >>
Now that's quite a responsibility you've placed on me! But I think you will enjoy visiting this region -- it was everything we hoped for and much more. And 15 years has gone by, so whatever happened in the past is ancient history!
I'm sorry I didn't have the time or energy to visit all the many sites and sights that Malaga has, and I'm glad we visited the city. Clearly there is a lot to see and, I have no doubt that to spend time in the city is to get to know it in a way few tourists really do. But this was our experience and I only share my feelings about my trip. It's a city I sense can grow on one, but one also needs time to let it grow, and so many of us have limited time for our vacations!
yestravel,
Thank you - so glad you got to see the photos! I was going to let you know I posted my photo albums, so I'm glad you found them!
I don't recall wildflowers between the cities, but perhaps others could chime in if there are any, and where to find them. I saw plenty of flowers at the patio festival, though! But, if I recall, you've seen the patio festival, too. Truthfully, the flowers in most of the gardens we visited had also passed their peak when we visited in May.
indyhiker,
<<You may have singlehandedly moved Andalucia to near the top of our travel list. >>
Now that's quite a responsibility you've placed on me! But I think you will enjoy visiting this region -- it was everything we hoped for and much more. And 15 years has gone by, so whatever happened in the past is ancient history!
Jul 13th, 2015, 11:36 PM
#230
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Ditto to what Alvamo says about Malaga, a city that can easily grab you far deeper than any of its more famous Andalucian cousins once you've ticked off the most obvious tourist sights.
At least two more Malaga sight though deserves mention: The 1831 English cemetery and the memorial in the San Rafael cemetery where more than 4000 people were buried in a mass grave during the Civil War and the first 15 years of the Franco regime. Both tell tons of quite recent history in one of the oldest existing cities in Europe.
The Cementerio Ingles: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/mala...ry-history.htm
http://www.cementerioinglesmalaga.org/en/home/
The San Rafael memorial pyramid: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news...f_Franco.shtml
At least two more Malaga sight though deserves mention: The 1831 English cemetery and the memorial in the San Rafael cemetery where more than 4000 people were buried in a mass grave during the Civil War and the first 15 years of the Franco regime. Both tell tons of quite recent history in one of the oldest existing cities in Europe.
The Cementerio Ingles: http://www.andalucia.com/cities/mala...ry-history.htm
http://www.cementerioinglesmalaga.org/en/home/
The San Rafael memorial pyramid: http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news...f_Franco.shtml
Jul 14th, 2015, 02:54 AM
#232
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Yes, Andalucis could be a lifetime project, especially when you start exploring the backroads.
Some books about Andalucia that are great reads in themselves and huge inspirations for further exploring:
Michael Jacobs' masterpiece of an alternative guide: http://www.amazon.com/Andalucia-Pall.../dp/1873429789
Allen Josephs "White Wall of Spain - The Mysteries of Andalusian Culture" argues that Andalucian culture is as close you come to the old Greek and Roman Med cultures today. Chapters are almost essays on life/death, dance, music, bulls, godesses and tuna fish! http://www.tower.com/white-wall-spai...wapi/100698794
Michael Jacobs' fabulous "Factory of light" tells a story that put the small Andalucian village of Frailes in world media attention for s short moment:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Factory-.../dp/0719561736
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...riter-obituary
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...michael-jacobs
And the mother of all good books about Andalucia, Gerald Brenan's classic "South from Granada": http://www.theguardian.com/books/boo...travel-writing
Some books about Andalucia that are great reads in themselves and huge inspirations for further exploring:
Michael Jacobs' masterpiece of an alternative guide: http://www.amazon.com/Andalucia-Pall.../dp/1873429789
Allen Josephs "White Wall of Spain - The Mysteries of Andalusian Culture" argues that Andalucian culture is as close you come to the old Greek and Roman Med cultures today. Chapters are almost essays on life/death, dance, music, bulls, godesses and tuna fish! http://www.tower.com/white-wall-spai...wapi/100698794
Michael Jacobs' fabulous "Factory of light" tells a story that put the small Andalucian village of Frailes in world media attention for s short moment:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Factory-.../dp/0719561736
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...riter-obituary
http://www.theguardian.com/books/201...michael-jacobs
And the mother of all good books about Andalucia, Gerald Brenan's classic "South from Granada": http://www.theguardian.com/books/boo...travel-writing
Jul 14th, 2015, 08:43 AM
#233
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... and this is my soundtrack of Andalucia, the greatest flamenco singer on the current scene Miguel Poveda's farruca Tierra de Calma (Land of calm). Heard this live in Antequera in September 2007, one of those very rare moments in life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Xk5_nflTQ
Here from the premiere of Tierra de Calma in Sevilla in 2006, with fabulous bailaora Eva Yerbabuena, arguably the greatest in the world the past fifteen years. Here two giants meet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpM6Qt0i1A
Fin de fiesta, the same concert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q6tQQ9NuxQ
Here from the premiere of Tierra de Calma in Sevilla in 2006, with fabulous bailaora Eva Yerbabuena, arguably the greatest in the world the past fifteen years. Here two giants meet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGpM6Qt0i1A
Fin de fiesta, the same concert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q6tQQ9NuxQ
Jul 15th, 2015, 02:27 AM
#234
Original Poster
Kimhe,
Thanks for the book recommendations and videos. I look forward to reading more and those books look great.
And, of course, the videos you post are wonderful. I haven't had time to view these yet, but will look soon.
Thanks for the book recommendations and videos. I look forward to reading more and those books look great.
And, of course, the videos you post are wonderful. I haven't had time to view these yet, but will look soon.
Oct 23rd, 2016, 03:19 PM
#237
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Progol,
I have thoroughly enjoyed your trip report, and I appreciate the many helpful details, especially about hotels, restaurants and transportation. You sent me your link when you responded to my recent post.
The Granada train station must be operating now, so I assume there is train service between Cordoba and Granada. Did you prefer the bus or the train? Based on your experience taking the train, bus, and driving, how would you recommend getting from Cordoba to Granada? I am asking because there isn't a non-stop train between Cordoba and Granada. We would have to change trains in Antequerra.
Thank you!
I have thoroughly enjoyed your trip report, and I appreciate the many helpful details, especially about hotels, restaurants and transportation. You sent me your link when you responded to my recent post.
The Granada train station must be operating now, so I assume there is train service between Cordoba and Granada. Did you prefer the bus or the train? Based on your experience taking the train, bus, and driving, how would you recommend getting from Cordoba to Granada? I am asking because there isn't a non-stop train between Cordoba and Granada. We would have to change trains in Antequerra.
Thank you!
Oct 24th, 2016, 08:33 AM
#239
Original Poster
Hi, Karen,
I'm glad you enjoyed the TR and found it helpful. As Bedar writes, don't assume that the Granada construction is completed and trains are operating normally; according to the RENFE site, it appears that they are not:
http://help.loco2.com/article/393-gr...ineering-works
The bus ride that we took was comfortable and I enjoyed the ride. I would recommend it. In general, I prefer the train, but on this route right now, you're better off with a bus trip.
I'm glad you enjoyed the TR and found it helpful. As Bedar writes, don't assume that the Granada construction is completed and trains are operating normally; according to the RENFE site, it appears that they are not:
http://help.loco2.com/article/393-gr...ineering-works
The bus ride that we took was comfortable and I enjoyed the ride. I would recommend it. In general, I prefer the train, but on this route right now, you're better off with a bus trip.
Oct 25th, 2016, 10:22 AM
#240
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The Journey from Granada to Córdoba is still bus from Granada and then AVE Train from Antequera to Córdoba in 2h 15 mins or Medium distance (MD) train and changing to AVE Train in 2h 50 mins.
The bus (ALSA) is approx 2h 30 mins and less than half the price.
The bus (ALSA) is approx 2h 30 mins and less than half the price.
