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Err, my Rrrrs don't rrrroll.
Ok,it's probably the stupidest post ever to show up here. I'm the typical native US english speaker. No foriegn language to speak of, except that I grew up hearing German spoken by my grandparents. Now here I am, trying to absorb a little bit of two languages before October. At least enough to get by on pleasantries, get something to eat and get around. One language is Hungarian, which if the vocabulary sticks in my head, I should be ok. The other is a Romance language. For those of you who don't have a natural tendency for the languages, did you find any little tricks to master the sounds not found in your own native language? The rolling "R" to start words is lost on me. You should hear me in the car. It's sad... I'm not looking for an evaluation of whether I should worry about it or not. I'm not worried :) But if I set out to say something, limited as it is, I'd just as soon say it correctly. |
Rrrr is the hardest sound to master I think. I'm trying to do the opposite - to go from slavic R to american, trying now for 15 years without much success :)
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As we say in the Uk, if yo can't roll your rs, wear higher heels:)
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I substitute a "d" for all "r"s and then try to lighten the touch. Seems to make me more understandable.
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Take the word "taught" and leave out the t and the vowel sounds. What is left is probably the closest approximation of the R sound as heard in France (e.g. <i>rire</i> and Germany (e.g. <i>ruhe</i>, but not rolled.
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Try saying "Barbaresco" over and over again, tapping the tip of your tongue against the back of your teeth. Eventually, your tongue will roll over the r's. If you try it in a wine bar, and they bring you Barbaresco every time you say it, your r's will roll that much sooner. You might also consider buying some English language dialect tapes--the kind that actors use to prepare for a role. They sometimes give you exercises that can help you shift your resonance or learn to use or loosen up parts of the mouth that speakers of American English either don't use or tend to tighten. To develop a more supple tongue, try some tongue twisters. "You know you need unique New York" and "Red leather yellow leather black leather blue leather" are good ones. You can also relax your jaw by massaging the hollows of your cheeks with the heels of your palms in a c-shape. This doesn't contribute directly to the rolling r, but a relaxed jaw will help you get a better sound. |
Clifton:
I don't understand which "r" sound you're trying to make. The French "r" is very different from a "rolled r," and a German "r", depending on what part of Germany, is yet another beast. The French "r" is, I think, the hardest for Americans to achieve, but a "rolled r" shouldn't be that hard. YOu just have to learn to make your tongue flutter against the backside of your upper teeth. Try listening to the languages you're interested in on travlang.com and maybe that will help. Or rent some movies in the languages you're trying to work with. |
Clifton, I think if you try tying knots in cherry stems with your tongue, that you will become profficient at rolling your 'rrrrs'..:P
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Hi heels and cherry stems. These are not the skills that are going to impress grim faced Romanian border guards. ;) Well, not 90% of them. It's Romanian that I'm trying to get some handle on. And I think I'm doing ok on the basic "Buna Ziua!" stuff (boon-nah zee-wah!). I've even gotten a few r's to roll in the middle of words as I listen to the Pimsleur CDs. It's that launch into the Rrrrromania at the beginning that's tricky. There's a bit of slavic influence in their language, even though 80% of everyday language is Latin so says their embassy site). So, I practice, but I sound more like I'm doing jackhammer impressions. Still, I repeat - Throwmania! I do like the "d" replacement idea. I'll have to work on that. I'd probably just let it ride, if it weren't for the fact that we'll be in some pretty remote areas during our trip and English may need be a fall back option. Charades, I think. |
eh, "English my <i>not</i> be an option" |
Well, if the high heels and cherry stems become an option, do take videos LOL
I am sure the Romanian border guards will get a good laugh out of it too :D |
Don't feel bad. I studied Spanish.
Four years in high school, two in college, couldn't then, can't now, trill my R's. Not in German, either. The closest I can come is to try to combine an R and an L, but it's a poor approximation. |
I think I may be brain dead when it comes to spoken languages. I took a little Spanish in HS too, but it's long long gone. Not heard much in the midwest. Now, I can manage with 6 different programming languages, but you can always reboot a computer if you slip up. <i>Still practicing that strange buzzing noise!</i> |
Clifton, I am someone usually very adept at language, and I was even a bilingual liaison for Spanish at my last job, but some sounds are harder than others. A few years ago, I was sitting at a traffic light when an old song came on the radio. I mimicked a sound effect in the chorus the first few times, and then suddenly could not. In minutes, I seemed to have forgotten how. It was BBBBBBPP, made by closing your lips loosely and blowing through them. One might make this sound bending over a baby. Of course, I looked over to see the people in the next car staring at me.
For your "r"s: try this: put your tongue between your teeth, as if you were biting down, lost in thought, then move the tip of your tongue back to the to the roof of your mouth, so the tip just touches the roof but not your teeth. Blow air until your tongue is vibrating. You should be able to get quite rapid with practice, then add the "r" sound". Picture a baseball card stuck in the spokes of a bicycle wheel. If you have trouble add a b or p as if the purring of a cat. Hope I was able to convey it. If that doesn't work, just keep practiing the language programs, you'll be surprised how much you absorb. Good luck and bravo that you're not worried. I think you'll have fun with it. |
Hi.
Observe the location of your tounge when pronounciating the American R. It is high up(and maybe back) in your mouth. Try pronounciating R with your tounge more in front, and even down touching the back of your lower front teeth. Got it? Bjorrrrrn, Oslo Norrrrrway |
That tongue just behind the teeth trick is pretty good. I've never tried it before!
I studied French but grew up in a very Hispanic neighborhood. I could never roll my 'Rs' in the Spanish way but found the French way a cinch. It's more of a throaty growl and less of a "roll" so I find it much easier. |
I speak a few languages other than English. I never had a problem with the French "r", but to this day I cannot trill an "r" as in Spanish. The ability to roll your tongue (by folding it from side to side "inward" and by simply rolling up toward the back of your throat is actually genetic. If you're not built for it physicially, there's only so much you can do!
BC |
ninasdream and Bjorn,
I think you are great for spending the time and energy to explain this so well, I am sitting here with my tongue vibrating, strange sounds coming from my throat. After a moment of staring at me, the Pup left the room and my husband came to the door to see what was dying in here. I think I will not get this Rrrrrrrs thing very soon :( ((F)) Scarrrrlett |
I was never ever able to roll my Rs , (nor whistle)
But, when I began to study italian, I also began practicing my Rs, It was truly pathetic and I sounded (and probably looked ) like an idiot doing so, BUT, I kept practicing, and suddenly one day I actually did it! Maybe eventually you can too. good luck! :-) |
My Russian grandmother always joked that my "tongue just wouldn't twist" when I tried to speak Russian.
I was finally able to get the slavic roll down when, no lie, I was dogsitting my Russian friend's dogs, who only know Russian commands. I could only get them to obey me when I lowered my voice an octave and tried to sound like Natasha from Bullwinkle. They instantly did what I commanded. (Perhaps they were afraid to disobey a crazy woman?) When my Russian friend came home she was very impressed with my new-found accent and tone. I've also used this trick when pronouncing the names of my slavic-born students. They are always amazed. I think it has to do with a change in the way you hold your entire mouth/jaw. So watch some Bullwinkle DVDs before you practice your R sound. |
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