Fodor's Travel Talk Forums

Fodor's Travel Talk Forums (https://www.fodors.com/community/)
-   Europe (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/)
-   -   England Vs USA World Cup (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/england-vs-usa-world-cup-816619/)

flanneruk Dec 14th, 2009 06:23 AM

WIDKT:

Are you the Miranda Hart lookalike, or is the Miranda Hart lookalike your wife? Or is she actually Miranda Hart? And does your wife know?

wellididntknowthat Dec 14th, 2009 07:11 AM

>Are you the Miranda Hart lookalike, or is the Miranda Hart lookalike your wife? Or is she actually Miranda Hart? And does your wife know?<

Behave yourself Flanner dear boy. You'll give yourself aneurysm working that lot out. I have to assume you're referring to my profile pic in which case "Miranda" would be my SO whilst the fat bloke would be me.

http://twitter.com/mermhart

I have asked SO if she is Miranda Hart but she insists she isn't. Which comes as a relief to us both, more so for her as she is hard pressed to find time in her already busy schedule without the addition of a career as a comedic actress to contend with. However she is encouraged to know that should she decide to take up a life in comedy that she need only come here, open one of your posts and be inspired.

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 14th, 2009 11:03 AM

Miranda Hart is VERY unlikely to be married to a man.

Just saying....

BTW - Heavyweight champ is David Haye.

Palenque Dec 14th, 2009 12:42 PM

portuense on Dec 11, 09 at 3:12pm
palenque...what, exactly is soccer?>
portuense on Dec 11, 09 at 3:12pm
palenque...what, exactly is soccer?>

Portuense - soccer is what British folk once called football - even apparently as long ago as with Mary Queen of Scots and certainly was a truncation of AsSOCiation Football in the 1859s

And today on Carnaby Street there is Soccer World - planted firmly in the English capital.

ORIGINS OF THE WORD SOCCER

The accepted origin of the word "soccer" is that its a contraction of the word "Association" with reference to "Association Football". The Football Association was formed in October 1863 when the rules were standardised by a meeting of eleven clubs. With one of the written rules now being that the carrying of the ball was not permitted this finally set in stone the biggest practical different between Association Football and Rugby Football.

In 1889 the word was "socca", later it was "socker" in 1891 and finally seemed to settle on "soccer" by 1895. The word is supposed to have evolved in University slang, created by shortening the word "Association" and adding "er". They had other expressions such as "brekkers" for "breakfast" and "rugger" for "rugby."

While this seems a relatively acceptable version of the origin, and it does seem reasonble if these references started appearing in literature a couple of decades after the "association" was formed, there are a couple of things which put doubts in my mind.

Firstly it doesn't exactly follow the established rules for these Oxford contractions. Instead of merely chopping the last syllable off the word and adding "er", they remove the last two syllables, also remove the first letter of the word, then change the soft "c"s in the word to hard "c"s, before adding the "er". Okay, so maybe following the normal rules does produce the less desirable "asser", but why didn't this word become at least "sosser"?

Secondly, there is an alternative theory which fits rather well and, like the game itself, is considerably older than a hundred and fifty years.

Football has roots thousands of years ago across many countries of the world but in England it became taken up by the working classes and frowned upon by those in authority and the upper classes. It was a very rough and dangerous sport at first, known as "mob football" and was little more than a violent street battle. The first use of the phrase "football" or rather "fut ball" was in 1424 in the editc reproduced on the right, but what about "soccer"?

If you look up at the closest-sounding modern word, "sock", a couple of interesting points appear. The modern word comes from an old English word spelt "socc". More interestingly this was not a snug, fabric covering as it is today, but back then it meant a light shoe and it comes from the Latin "soccus". The word "socc" to mean "shoe" first appeared in 725AD but was there any evidence of it relating to football?

When Mary Queen of Scots was imprisoned in Carlisle Castle in Tudor times it is documented that she watched the game of football, indeed her retinue played for two hours "strongly" and "skillfully". And, by an amazing coincidence, on this map of Carlisle Castle, it is remarkable to note that certain fields are labelled "Castle Soceries".

So could this be proof that in medieval times the game was also known as "soccer" and played by those wearing "soccs" on ground known as "soceries"... with the players "socking" the ball? It is certainly very far from being proof and sadly this circumstantial evidence is all there is to this theory. There appears to be no written evidence putting the word "socc" in the context of football but it remains an interesting mystery.

portuense Dec 14th, 2009 11:01 PM

how quaint palenque. i think you may have missed my point

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 03:42 AM

The word soccer is Edwardian.

Only yankee bumclowns use it nowadays.

Palenque Dec 15th, 2009 04:35 AM

portuense - naw i did not miss you point - denigrating the use of the American word for British football - in good fun and that was also with my response. Anyway yes soccer is a good ole English word.

Josser Dec 15th, 2009 04:59 AM

The word soccer is Edwardian.

Only yankee bumclowns use it nowadays.

I wonder if the Pragger Wagger uses it or would he throw the suggestion in his wagger pagger bagger?

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 05:05 AM

Just so.

PatrickLondon Dec 15th, 2009 06:16 AM

>>I wonder if the Pragger Wagger uses it or would he throw the suggestion in his wagger pagger bagger?<<

Only after a good deal of why-oh-why about the decline of spoken English....

Hans Dec 15th, 2009 06:53 AM

"CW - thinks that if our first XI can stay fit we'll win it. Again."

Yeah, but no first XI ever stays fit. But actually with Capello you might have a chance, at least if he finds someone as gooalkeeper who isn't using the opportunity to audition for his future career as a clown.

Palenque Dec 15th, 2009 07:21 AM

why is Soccer World, in London's Carnaby Street, called 'Soccer World' and not Football World? Nuff said.

willit Dec 15th, 2009 09:28 AM

'cos only tourists shop in Carnaby street.

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 09:32 AM

Because Carnaby St is full of wogs.

Well you did ask. You daft racist.

Palenque Dec 15th, 2009 10:11 AM

Soccerscene - Carnaby Stores
Carnaby Street in the centre of London is the home of Soccerscene, known throughout the football world as the only store where you can obtain the most exclusive club soccer strips. Over 400 different shirts in most sizes are usually ...
www.carnaby.co.uk/store/soccerscene

'where you can obtainthe most exclusive 'soccer' strips - not football strips

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 10:15 AM

Like I said. For foreigns.

Most of us only buy two tops. Our club's and our country's

And we mend our cars wearing them.

You foreigns can do what you like but don't expect us to take you seriously.

portuense Dec 15th, 2009 10:23 AM

what, or where, exactly, is carnaby street?

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 10:28 AM

It's a street in That London that used to be famous for fashion and is now just infested with foreigns.

Palenque Dec 15th, 2009 10:37 AM

Carnaby Street was Uber famous long before CW was born when i first went to London in 1969, when Maryann Faithful was the rage, i sought it out - it was really popular with the hippy type younger crowd - it's really a cul-de-sac of sorts, just off, i think Regent (or Bonf?) Street

Cholmondley_Warner Dec 15th, 2009 10:42 AM

It's off Regent St and is now just full of foreigns.

And it wasn't famous before I was born, but I may well have been wearing nappies.

I think tourists would like it.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:07 AM.