England and Wales by public transport
Aug 30th, 2016, 12:45 PM
#61
tower - I can't get that link to work.
commiserations that you are no longer able to travel but thanks for sticking with the rest of us who, speaking for myself, will never come close to emulating you.
thursdaysd - I'm enjoying your account of your travels in southern England very much. Keep it coming.
commiserations that you are no longer able to travel but thanks for sticking with the rest of us who, speaking for myself, will never come close to emulating you.
thursdaysd - I'm enjoying your account of your travels in southern England very much. Keep it coming.
Aug 30th, 2016, 04:35 PM
#62
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Lady Ann of Cornwall....I thank m'lady for her kind words.
After traveling regularly since I was a teenage enlistee in the US army, I miss it terribly. But it's not to be...so helping others is my new mission.
@Thursdaysd (KW) the very last shot
I'm out of ammo!)
https://goo.gl/photos/Yh1Fdt6ozHwJisw46
My son coached me to share any photos I want to send..and I can get a direct link to do so...so here goes.
After traveling regularly since I was a teenage enlistee in the US army, I miss it terribly. But it's not to be...so helping others is my new mission.
@Thursdaysd (KW) the very last shot
I'm out of ammo!)https://goo.gl/photos/Yh1Fdt6ozHwJisw46
My son coached me to share any photos I want to send..and I can get a direct link to do so...so here goes.
Aug 31st, 2016, 09:27 AM
#63
Original Poster
Ah, that one worked stu - thanks! And glad you're enjoying this, ann.
<b>August 16, 2016: A Slow Day in Gloucester</b>
I had had thoughts of visiting Tewkesbury on the way to or from Gloucester, but on closer examination the bus timetables didn't work terribly well, and I wasn't sure I wanted to go to a lot of trouble to see an abbey when I was already seeing three cathedrals in the neighborhood. The trains to Gloucester weren't very user-friendly either, basically only running once every two hours. Still, they did run, although Gloucester station was a bit out of the center, and the walk wasn't through the nicest part of town. I was glad I wasn't doing it with luggage.
The cathedral was my main target, so I started there, beginning by walking the big cloth labyrinth just inside the west door. The labyrinth was on loan fron the US, and I suspected I had already walked it when it was in Duke Chapel. Next I took a look at the very Norman crypt, along with four other people and a volunteer guide. The crypt had, of course, been holding up the very heavy weight of the cathedral for nearly a millennium, and necessary repairs were often visible. After we resurfaced, the other people took off, and I had a guide to myself for the body of the cathedral.
While much of the fabric was Norman, later Perpendicular windows provided more light than was usual in a Norman church. Most of the stained glass was later still, dating from the Victorian era. The cathedral was an impressive 426 feet (130 meters) long, but the view was interrupted by the installation of the organ above the choir screen. Notable burials included Prince Arthur, Henry VII's oldest son and first husband of Catherine of Aragon, and Edward II, deposed in 1327 and murdered in Berkeley Castle in 1330. The presence of his remains in Gloucester Cathedral led to royal patronage and maybe saved the building (then a Benedictine abbey) from destruction at the time of the Reformation. The abbey's cloisters were still intact and boasted some very nice fan vaulting.
My afternoon options included a canal boat ride and the folk museum. Unfortunately, I made the wrong choice, as the boat ride was quite uninteresting, and the folk museum closed too early for me to see it as well. The boat used for the cruise turned out, much to my surprise, to have participated in the small boat rescue of the troops at Dunkirk in 1940. I wouldn't have thought it capable of service in the English Channel. I could have visited the Docks Museum, but it looked like it was mostly devoted to machinery and I visited the City Museum instead, which included a special exhibition of robots from film and TV. I also took a look at the "Tailor of Gloucester" shop, and some nice Tudor buildings on the main street, but I wound up killing time before the next train back to Worcester.
<b>August 16, 2016: A Slow Day in Gloucester</b>
I had had thoughts of visiting Tewkesbury on the way to or from Gloucester, but on closer examination the bus timetables didn't work terribly well, and I wasn't sure I wanted to go to a lot of trouble to see an abbey when I was already seeing three cathedrals in the neighborhood. The trains to Gloucester weren't very user-friendly either, basically only running once every two hours. Still, they did run, although Gloucester station was a bit out of the center, and the walk wasn't through the nicest part of town. I was glad I wasn't doing it with luggage.
The cathedral was my main target, so I started there, beginning by walking the big cloth labyrinth just inside the west door. The labyrinth was on loan fron the US, and I suspected I had already walked it when it was in Duke Chapel. Next I took a look at the very Norman crypt, along with four other people and a volunteer guide. The crypt had, of course, been holding up the very heavy weight of the cathedral for nearly a millennium, and necessary repairs were often visible. After we resurfaced, the other people took off, and I had a guide to myself for the body of the cathedral.
While much of the fabric was Norman, later Perpendicular windows provided more light than was usual in a Norman church. Most of the stained glass was later still, dating from the Victorian era. The cathedral was an impressive 426 feet (130 meters) long, but the view was interrupted by the installation of the organ above the choir screen. Notable burials included Prince Arthur, Henry VII's oldest son and first husband of Catherine of Aragon, and Edward II, deposed in 1327 and murdered in Berkeley Castle in 1330. The presence of his remains in Gloucester Cathedral led to royal patronage and maybe saved the building (then a Benedictine abbey) from destruction at the time of the Reformation. The abbey's cloisters were still intact and boasted some very nice fan vaulting.
My afternoon options included a canal boat ride and the folk museum. Unfortunately, I made the wrong choice, as the boat ride was quite uninteresting, and the folk museum closed too early for me to see it as well. The boat used for the cruise turned out, much to my surprise, to have participated in the small boat rescue of the troops at Dunkirk in 1940. I wouldn't have thought it capable of service in the English Channel. I could have visited the Docks Museum, but it looked like it was mostly devoted to machinery and I visited the City Museum instead, which included a special exhibition of robots from film and TV. I also took a look at the "Tailor of Gloucester" shop, and some nice Tudor buildings on the main street, but I wound up killing time before the next train back to Worcester.
Aug 31st, 2016, 12:54 PM
#65
thursdaysd - DD and I spent an evening in Gloucester a few years ago when we went to have a look at Hartbury College as a possible university for her; it was slow, even for me.
tower - thanks for the pics - fascinating.
tower - thanks for the pics - fascinating.
Sep 2nd, 2016, 11:59 AM
#66
Original Poster
<b>August 18, 2016: Happier in Hereford</b>
Hereford was an improvement on Gloucester, although I still preferred Worcester. The train station was far enough out that I took a bus to the cathedral, and I certainly got plenty of exercise in town. Again, I had a personal tour of the cathedral, this time with an elderly lady. My first impression of the cathedral was that it was a good bit smaller than the other two, and this was confirmed by my guide. She regretted, several times, that the space was not really big enough for the Three Choirs Festival (http://www.3choirs.org) and especially, the loss of the westernmost bay, where the tower had collapsed in 1786 (ironically on Easter Monday) and not been replaced. Much of the cathedral had been rebuilt in Victorian times, and most of the stained glass was also Victorian.
However, an unusual, and rather beautiful, golden crown hovered over the main altar, there were Norman arches and even a few repurposed Roman columns, and some misericords, which I always enjoy. But the cathedral's real claims to fame are the Mappa Mundi and the chained library. I had seen several reproductions of the 14th century map of the world in books on early cartography, and really you would need a magnifying glass to see the details on the real one. A medieval mindset, for which Jerusalem was the unquestioned center of the world, and therefore the center of the map, would also help. The UK was squashed in down at the bottom left.
I'm afraid I was disappointed with the chained library. The books were certainly chained, and there were certainly a lot of them, but they were housed in a new, purpose built room. Perhaps I would have found the display more interesting had I not so recently seen chained books, and had the system explained to me, in the Bodleian.
After lunch I visited the Cider Museum. As a student in England I drank a lot of cider, and I have visited quite a few vineyards, but this was the first time I had seen a cider production facility. Originally, farmers made their own, as some probably still do, and the early wooden cider presses were on display, along the with the horn tumblers used for drinking it. So were a number of pieces of beautiful early glass. I spent long enough reading labels and watching videos that I didn't make it back into town in time to visit Hereford's other tourist site, the Old House, but I was able to take pictures of the outside.
Hereford was an improvement on Gloucester, although I still preferred Worcester. The train station was far enough out that I took a bus to the cathedral, and I certainly got plenty of exercise in town. Again, I had a personal tour of the cathedral, this time with an elderly lady. My first impression of the cathedral was that it was a good bit smaller than the other two, and this was confirmed by my guide. She regretted, several times, that the space was not really big enough for the Three Choirs Festival (http://www.3choirs.org) and especially, the loss of the westernmost bay, where the tower had collapsed in 1786 (ironically on Easter Monday) and not been replaced. Much of the cathedral had been rebuilt in Victorian times, and most of the stained glass was also Victorian.
However, an unusual, and rather beautiful, golden crown hovered over the main altar, there were Norman arches and even a few repurposed Roman columns, and some misericords, which I always enjoy. But the cathedral's real claims to fame are the Mappa Mundi and the chained library. I had seen several reproductions of the 14th century map of the world in books on early cartography, and really you would need a magnifying glass to see the details on the real one. A medieval mindset, for which Jerusalem was the unquestioned center of the world, and therefore the center of the map, would also help. The UK was squashed in down at the bottom left.
I'm afraid I was disappointed with the chained library. The books were certainly chained, and there were certainly a lot of them, but they were housed in a new, purpose built room. Perhaps I would have found the display more interesting had I not so recently seen chained books, and had the system explained to me, in the Bodleian.
After lunch I visited the Cider Museum. As a student in England I drank a lot of cider, and I have visited quite a few vineyards, but this was the first time I had seen a cider production facility. Originally, farmers made their own, as some probably still do, and the early wooden cider presses were on display, along the with the horn tumblers used for drinking it. So were a number of pieces of beautiful early glass. I spent long enough reading labels and watching videos that I didn't make it back into town in time to visit Hereford's other tourist site, the Old House, but I was able to take pictures of the outside.
Sep 2nd, 2016, 12:19 PM
#67
thursdaysd - we visited Hereford Cathedral last year and had rather the same reaction as you - we were somewhat underwhelmed by the whole thing. sadly we missed the cider Museum - that might have been more suited to our tastes!
Sep 2nd, 2016, 12:23 PM
#68
Original Poster
Alas, I didn't do any tasting! Unfortunately, the old family firm (Bulmers) finally over-reached, and was taken over by Heineken a couple of years back.
I think the cathedral competition is rather tough in that area!
I think the cathedral competition is rather tough in that area!
Sep 2nd, 2016, 12:39 PM
#69
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One of my daughters sang at the Three Choirs Festival in Hereford, back in 1994 (I think). My other daughter and I (groupies) followed them for part of their tour, when they also sang at St. Pauls and Westminster Abbey. I really appreciated seeing the Mappa Mundi in Hereford. I've seen another at the D'Este library in Modena, which seems to be hardly ever open. Actually, I think that was the same trip; my other daughter had been studying in Rome. I met her there and we backpacked across Europe by train to arrive in London in time to join the choir tour.
I don't remember much about the cathedral itself. The festival had a lot of temporary seating set up, which probably detracted from the overall appearance. I thought the chained library was interesting, but not breathtaking.
I don't remember much about the cathedral itself. The festival had a lot of temporary seating set up, which probably detracted from the overall appearance. I thought the chained library was interesting, but not breathtaking.
Sep 2nd, 2016, 12:45 PM
#70
Original Poster
Wow, singing in St. Paul's and Westminster must have been an amazing experience!
I might have been more impressed with the Mappa Mundi if I hadn't seen a lot of photos of it, and also some other maps of significant age in the recent past.
I might have been more impressed with the Mappa Mundi if I hadn't seen a lot of photos of it, and also some other maps of significant age in the recent past.
Sep 2nd, 2016, 12:57 PM
#71
I would have liked some more information about it, to really put it in context - and to tell us what we were looking at!
i can't compete with singing in St Paul's and Westminster - I did however sing in Gloucester Cathedral once with my choir from Truro [our old choir-master had been made organist at Gloucester, before he made it to the "big time" in Cambridge.
i can't compete with singing in St Paul's and Westminster - I did however sing in Gloucester Cathedral once with my choir from Truro [our old choir-master had been made organist at Gloucester, before he made it to the "big time" in Cambridge.
Sep 5th, 2016, 02:42 AM
#75
Original Poster
<b>August 19-20, 2016: Wet Days in Shrewsbury</b>
Getting from Worcester to Shrewsbury, my next stop, by train, required at least one change. I chose to make the transfer at Birmingham New Street, and the change, facilitated by elevators, was easy. However, the ride to Birmingham was not. The train was made up of only two carriages, and both were packed. I had to stand until the first stop, where I was able to claim a jump seat previously occupied by a young woman buried in her newspaper. In contrast, the four carriages on the next leg, Birmingham to Holyhead on the eastern edge of the Isle of Anglesey, were largely empty. The back two were dropped at Shrewsbury, where for the first time this trip I opted to take a taxi to my hotel as it was raining. A local sharing the elevator with me advised avoiding the cabs in the station forecourt and crossing the street to Vincent's Taxis.
After the lovely Crown in Worcester, I had high hopes for the Shrewsbury Hotel, also above a pub and also run by JD Weatherspoon. What a disappointment! I was so surprised I checked on line to see whether Weatherspoon was a franchise operation (it wasn't). My full review is on Tripadvisor (https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUs...ECK_RATES_CONT ) but my first room was so miserable I complained. The second was only somewhat better and I was very glad to be staying only one night. I didn't care much for the look of the bar either, and only ate breakfast there.
I had thought I might visit Ludlow and the iconic Feathers Inn while I was in Shrewsbury, or even take a hike in the Malvern Hills. I had had a good view of the Malverns from the train to Hereford, rising steeply from the plain. However, the weather did not cooperate, and I stayed in Shrewsbury. A pleasant enough town, I suppose, although with some pretty steep streets, but not much to do besides admire the Tudor buildings. I did fit in a stroll by the river during a break in the weather, and wondered what to make of a large arch commemorating Darwin's birth in the town.
Ellis Peter's Brother Cadfael mysteries had originally interested me in visiting, but little is left from the medieval period. The Benedictine Abbey suffered badly in the Reformation, and only the church is left. It was closed when I went by after visiting the castle. I'm afraid the regimental museum in the castle failed to hold my interest. St. Mary's church had a very nice roof that had been rebuilt after a major storm in the late 1800s, but the City Museum was about as interesting as the regimental museum... I regretted not spending an extra night in Worcester.
Getting from Worcester to Shrewsbury, my next stop, by train, required at least one change. I chose to make the transfer at Birmingham New Street, and the change, facilitated by elevators, was easy. However, the ride to Birmingham was not. The train was made up of only two carriages, and both were packed. I had to stand until the first stop, where I was able to claim a jump seat previously occupied by a young woman buried in her newspaper. In contrast, the four carriages on the next leg, Birmingham to Holyhead on the eastern edge of the Isle of Anglesey, were largely empty. The back two were dropped at Shrewsbury, where for the first time this trip I opted to take a taxi to my hotel as it was raining. A local sharing the elevator with me advised avoiding the cabs in the station forecourt and crossing the street to Vincent's Taxis.
After the lovely Crown in Worcester, I had high hopes for the Shrewsbury Hotel, also above a pub and also run by JD Weatherspoon. What a disappointment! I was so surprised I checked on line to see whether Weatherspoon was a franchise operation (it wasn't). My full review is on Tripadvisor (https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUs...ECK_RATES_CONT ) but my first room was so miserable I complained. The second was only somewhat better and I was very glad to be staying only one night. I didn't care much for the look of the bar either, and only ate breakfast there.
I had thought I might visit Ludlow and the iconic Feathers Inn while I was in Shrewsbury, or even take a hike in the Malvern Hills. I had had a good view of the Malverns from the train to Hereford, rising steeply from the plain. However, the weather did not cooperate, and I stayed in Shrewsbury. A pleasant enough town, I suppose, although with some pretty steep streets, but not much to do besides admire the Tudor buildings. I did fit in a stroll by the river during a break in the weather, and wondered what to make of a large arch commemorating Darwin's birth in the town.
Ellis Peter's Brother Cadfael mysteries had originally interested me in visiting, but little is left from the medieval period. The Benedictine Abbey suffered badly in the Reformation, and only the church is left. It was closed when I went by after visiting the castle. I'm afraid the regimental museum in the castle failed to hold my interest. St. Mary's church had a very nice roof that had been rebuilt after a major storm in the late 1800s, but the City Museum was about as interesting as the regimental museum... I regretted not spending an extra night in Worcester.
Sep 5th, 2016, 02:26 PM
#76
thursdaysd - DH dragged me, sorry took me to Shrewsbury last year for a long weekend in August [we were talking about traffic on another thread, weren't we? - oh my, the journeys there and back were horrendous] and I agree that it's not as interesting as Ludlow for example, but it does make a reasonable base for touring.
We stayed in a B&B which was full of "character" - and better than your hotel by the sound of it.
We stayed in a B&B which was full of "character" - and better than your hotel by the sound of it.
Sep 6th, 2016, 11:38 AM
#77
Original Poster
ann - Shrewsbury would probably be better than Ludlow in bad weather, too, although I was disppointed with the museums.
<b>August 20-24, 2016: Conwy - a Castle, and More</b>
From Shrewsbury I rejoined the Birmingham to Holyhead train to reach Conwy, on the north coast of Wales. The rails ran quite close to the shore in places, and I enjoyed the views. My B&B was just uphill from the small, on-request station, and the whole town was easily walkable. The B&B, the Gwynfryn, run by friendly hosts busy expanding their operation into a former chapel, was a little frou-frou for my taste, with cute decorations on every available surface and trailing draperies at the window. (I don't necessarily count the extra pillows and bedspreads, I seem to be always removing those.)
Back when the Welsh were periodically fighting to remain independent of the English, Edward I built a number of castles to keep them quiet. Conwy has not only retained its castle, roofless and floorless but otherwise impressive and in quite good condition, but an almost complete circuit of protective walls around the town center. Visiting the castle costs money, but walking the walls is free. I did both, although while I walked the castle's battlements, I only went up one of the towers, as the wind was trying to blow me off and I didn't feel secure enough to take photos, which required two hands. I did see enough to appreciate the castle's strategic position.
After the castle I visited Conwy's two house museums. The National Trust property was small and rather bare, but Plas Mawr was big and well decorated. The elaborate Tudor plasterwork had been renovated, and painted in the original colors. Ornate chests flanked four poster beds, a good sized kitchen was next to a scullery with game hanging from the ceiling, and the main bedroom even had its own toilet in a small closet.
Three bridges cross the river Conwy right below the castle: the railway bridge, the modern road bridge (currently partly hidden while renovations are in process), and between the two, Telford's 1826 suspension bridge, anchored actually into the castle walls at one end. Admission to the NT house included admission to the toll keeper's cottage at the far end, and I got to walk the bridge as well. I was surprised to learn that the position (and the accompanying cottage) had been auctioned off every three years. The winner got to keep the tolls, and apparently made enough money, and enough of a reputation as a reliable worker, to move on to other things, as records showed continual changeover.
My splurge meal in Conwy was at Watson's Bistro, just up the street. This turned out to be an excellent choice, for both service and food. I had made an Open Table reservation, as I was eating there on a Saturday night, but the reservation had not made it into the Bistro's system. Fortunately, my reservation was early, at 7:30. I ate my main course at one table, reserved for 8:30, and my dessert at another, vacated at 8:00. Meanwhile, several couples were turned away. The main course, tender lamb shank with potatoes and vegetables, was delicious, but too much meat given I wanted room for dessert, an excellent Welsh cheese board, complete with descriptions. The house port was quite drinkable and went well with the cheese. My other meals in Conwy were not memorable.
<b>August 20-24, 2016: Conwy - a Castle, and More</b>
From Shrewsbury I rejoined the Birmingham to Holyhead train to reach Conwy, on the north coast of Wales. The rails ran quite close to the shore in places, and I enjoyed the views. My B&B was just uphill from the small, on-request station, and the whole town was easily walkable. The B&B, the Gwynfryn, run by friendly hosts busy expanding their operation into a former chapel, was a little frou-frou for my taste, with cute decorations on every available surface and trailing draperies at the window. (I don't necessarily count the extra pillows and bedspreads, I seem to be always removing those.)
Back when the Welsh were periodically fighting to remain independent of the English, Edward I built a number of castles to keep them quiet. Conwy has not only retained its castle, roofless and floorless but otherwise impressive and in quite good condition, but an almost complete circuit of protective walls around the town center. Visiting the castle costs money, but walking the walls is free. I did both, although while I walked the castle's battlements, I only went up one of the towers, as the wind was trying to blow me off and I didn't feel secure enough to take photos, which required two hands. I did see enough to appreciate the castle's strategic position.
After the castle I visited Conwy's two house museums. The National Trust property was small and rather bare, but Plas Mawr was big and well decorated. The elaborate Tudor plasterwork had been renovated, and painted in the original colors. Ornate chests flanked four poster beds, a good sized kitchen was next to a scullery with game hanging from the ceiling, and the main bedroom even had its own toilet in a small closet.
Three bridges cross the river Conwy right below the castle: the railway bridge, the modern road bridge (currently partly hidden while renovations are in process), and between the two, Telford's 1826 suspension bridge, anchored actually into the castle walls at one end. Admission to the NT house included admission to the toll keeper's cottage at the far end, and I got to walk the bridge as well. I was surprised to learn that the position (and the accompanying cottage) had been auctioned off every three years. The winner got to keep the tolls, and apparently made enough money, and enough of a reputation as a reliable worker, to move on to other things, as records showed continual changeover.
My splurge meal in Conwy was at Watson's Bistro, just up the street. This turned out to be an excellent choice, for both service and food. I had made an Open Table reservation, as I was eating there on a Saturday night, but the reservation had not made it into the Bistro's system. Fortunately, my reservation was early, at 7:30. I ate my main course at one table, reserved for 8:30, and my dessert at another, vacated at 8:00. Meanwhile, several couples were turned away. The main course, tender lamb shank with potatoes and vegetables, was delicious, but too much meat given I wanted room for dessert, an excellent Welsh cheese board, complete with descriptions. The house port was quite drinkable and went well with the cheese. My other meals in Conwy were not memorable.
Sep 9th, 2016, 03:17 AM
#80
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"The Benedictine Abbey suffered badly in the Reformation, and only the church is left."
...in which Shrewsbury's Benedictine abbey differs from most of England's 800 pre-Reformation monasteries only by there being a chapel left to turn into a church.
The other 780 or so were completely demolished over the following two centuries. In a handful - almost entirely in towns - just the chapel (admittedly a great deal bigger than most churches of the time) survives as the region's Anglican cathedral or the town's preposterously oversized Anglican parish church.
There are a few functioning monasteries on pre-Reformation monastic sites (such as Buckfast in Devon). These are all 19th or 20th century foundations, built in the last century or so on land acquired from (and sometimes donated by) the family owning the property at the time: the successors to whoever managed to persuade the relevant Tudor monarch to give them the land stolen from the monastic order.
Say what you like about Britain's postwar socialist nationalisation of dying industries: at least the Labour government paid for what it seized. The Tudors had no such scruple.
...in which Shrewsbury's Benedictine abbey differs from most of England's 800 pre-Reformation monasteries only by there being a chapel left to turn into a church.
The other 780 or so were completely demolished over the following two centuries. In a handful - almost entirely in towns - just the chapel (admittedly a great deal bigger than most churches of the time) survives as the region's Anglican cathedral or the town's preposterously oversized Anglican parish church.
There are a few functioning monasteries on pre-Reformation monastic sites (such as Buckfast in Devon). These are all 19th or 20th century foundations, built in the last century or so on land acquired from (and sometimes donated by) the family owning the property at the time: the successors to whoever managed to persuade the relevant Tudor monarch to give them the land stolen from the monastic order.
Say what you like about Britain's postwar socialist nationalisation of dying industries: at least the Labour government paid for what it seized. The Tudors had no such scruple.
