You say ten minutes for Notre-Dame, but you don't give the total length of the trip. If you had only a day in Paris, ten minutes in Notre-Dame is very reasonable. It doesn't take very long to see the cathedral, anyway: it takes about ten minutes to walk the circuit inside, plus another 10-15 minutes to walk around the outside. If you want to climb up in the towers, it takes considerably longer. Many kids have had their fill of Notre-Dame after 30 minutes.

AnthonyGA we had a total of 10 minutes. That was it. Inside, outside whatever you could do in 10 minutes. Our kids were very disappointed and wanted more. I don't know of anyone in our group who got to see the outside. To me, that's a shame. We were suppose to have 3 full days in Paris but ended up with only two due to our 36 hours of flight, alot from Seattle. This is just one example of things gone wrong.
kybourbon, Our kids didn't party. As we all jokingly called our trip, scenic boot camp. Even if there was a chance they were to tired. There were a lot of days that we ate breakfast at 7am and returned to the hotel at 12am. A few times it was after that. Our teachers are also very strict about drinking/drugs if you do and are caught you are sent home immediately on your parents dime. It has only happened once since this teacher has taken this trip. The student was on his way home before he could blink his eyes. Everyone knows about this. Also, our teacher is very much admired and loved by his students. Our teacher stated at the end of the trip he would NEVER use Ef again. About the extra money, our kids needed to spend more money to make sure they had eaten enough. At one museum Ef charged 20 Euro for our entrance fee, as we went in the cost of the museum was 7 Euro. A very good profit for EF. Some in our group wanted their money back. We wanted to see the museum so I just seethed and went in. The museum was wonderful even if EF ripped us off. That again was only one example of over charging us. My daughter and I travel a lot together and we have decided we should just continue to travel on our own, with maybe the exception of a group tour to Africa. This was just our experience and I posted that I would give a trip report when we returned. I waited a month so I could write a clear headed report. I am happy that Ef has worked for others. Europe can be such a wonderful experience for students and broaden their horizons.

Hester - I didn't mean to imply that your group partied or spent their money on partying. I've just seen it happen with other groups. I met a teacher from Michigan on his tenth EF trip and he turned the kids loose the minute they landed. As long as his kids were on the bus in the morning he didn't care what they did or where they went the rest of the time. All the kids at that high school were aware this was a party trip every year but the parents have no clue.

I found that most of the places EF actually includes are free to visit anyway. If it was something that cost it was extra or just viewed from the outside. Most teachers will buy the kids snacks and food because they are getting free trips and cash. Some teachers give the parents free trips or discounts for helping supervise. Your teachers qualified for either 5 free adults or the 2 teachers + cash probably in the range of $2000-2500.

I'm no longer doing any student travel unless my now college age daughter wants to take a friend or two somewhere and then we will just make our own plans.

Just to post another reply to this thread, some people say it dissapeared and could not be searched.

My experiences with EF tours and student travel haven't been as bad as some. Maybe because we filled the bus with our own students only and had a bit more control over students and chaperones. It is not that EF is always bad, they aren't, but most teachers can do better by choosing another more responsive company who puts more of the money into the trip and less into advertising.

CHA, NTSC or "The European Intitute" can tailor a custom tour or put you into a catalog tour on a little higher level than EF, for almost no extra money.

While our tour with EF did have some problems, we took care to never let the kids know and they still had a good trip (with our intervention).

Anyone have a problem with flight arrangements with EF Tours and how did it get resolved. My mother is traveling wih my son on a school trip from an alternate airpotrt and her flight arrangements are horrendous. Leaves at 6 a.m. with two very long layovers before she leaves the country at 6 p.m. She is in her 80's and this is unacceptable. Has 55 minutes in Paris on the return all by herself to change flights and airlines. No way to do it under the very best circumstances. I have tried to talk to EF and they say too bad. Offered one meal voucher.

skerns123 - Good luck! EF does not guarantee most things (flight times), in fact, they have many disclaimers listed.

As a High School teacher, I've led 4 EF tours- 3 great and 1 terrible. Even though they may have disclaimers, I always give the tour consultant my "must" list up front- Non-stop flight, no Americanized hotels, knowledgable tour guide etc. So far so good except for one of my first trips- live and learn! I do not like the catalog trips since I am leary about joining other schools and running into problems. I have had great luck with the customized tours. I loved the comment from CarolA about adults. I too limit adults on student tours! Also, as I've said on a previous thread, I NEVER make any tour a school function requiring Board approval. NONE of my tours are school connected, too much of a job risk!

Even without terrible flight arrangements, I am concerned that a woman in her 80's will have great difficulty keeping up with a tour designed for teenagers. There is a great deal of walking, stair climbing , etc. involved. Perhaps she should give this some more thought.

Skerns123, I hate to say this but I would really think twice before sending my son and 80 year old mother off with EF tours. Please read my experience, our trip was 36 hours from Seattle to Paris! The trip home was even worse, to think about it gives me nightmares, and I have been to Europe many times before. If we didn't have the teachers we had with us it would have been a total waste of our time and money. I guess to be fair to EF I also must state that I have come to realize that I am not a tour person. But I also must state that a tour shouldn't include 36 hour flights, accomodations one hour out of city limits, in the drug dealing, burnt out warehouse parts of towns, bug infested motels, food so badly burnt you can't tell what it is several nights in a row, tour guides that don't know the sights, I could go on but you get the picture. Others will say it was our teachers inexperience, that's not the case. He has worked with EF before, but after our tour never again. So I guess what I am saying is read the posts and weigh it out. Good Luck!

This thread reminds me of one about Carnaval Cruises- Oh, the horror stories, but we had a great time. I too had a bad experience with EF, but also 3 good ones. Again imo it's the quality and quantity of the group that's so important, granted you don't want unsafe hotels and lousy tour guides. After my bad trip with EF, they seemed to go out of their way to keep my business- and the result was 3 more great tours. (But I also have not been in 3 years). kybourbon(great name) has perked my interest with CHA so I may check them out since I'm thinking about doing a mostly adult tour to BO, Lake Como, and Tuscany next year.

It's interesting that no one has yet reported on Explorica. I've used them for two trips already and am now working on my third. France/Italy in 2002 and Spain/Andalucia in 2004. Both trips went extremely well. The hotels were all centrally located and everything was as promised. The tour guides were extremely knowledgeable on both trips.

I'm now planing an Italy/Spain trip for summer 2007. I am again very happy with the planning and responses I've received so far. The prices have gone up significantly since 2004, but they are right in line with what other tour companies are now charging.

Our district won't let us take any foreign trips (even to Canada which is about a 1/4 mile away across the Niagara River).

It's a non-school sponsored trip and everyone is fine with that.

Explorica is essentially EF. It was started by a group of EF employees that left EF (in 2001 or 2002)to start Explorica. The first year they undercut all of EF's prices because they were able to access information about EF. EF then sued Explorica for that (you can google the court results) and EF won.

I know a group that had 36 hour flights with Explorica from Newark to Rome. They use the same hotels as EF and pretty much operate the same way.

Beatle - None of these companies are for adult tours - they are for student tours. EF owns Go Ahead which does adult tours - nicer hotels, more inclusions, better meals, wine,etc. You can still organize/lead and get a free spot if that's what are you trying to do. I would only use CHA or ACIS for students.

Our schools don't consider any trip with a teacher taking students as "non-school". If you are employed by the school and traveling with students they think they will be sued if anything happens and of course they would be. We've had problems in the past and all trips involving students must go before the school board. A few years ago the school board canceled a trip at the last minute because of terrorist events and all the kids lost their money. The parents didn't realise that one of them could have replaced the teacher as group leader and taken the group without the teacher. They also didn't realise that the teacher didn't lose any money because she wasn't paying any money. They thought she lost her money like they did and felt bad for her. She never told them any different.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more on the following comment:

"If you are employed by the school and traveling with students they think they will be sued if anything happens and of course they would be."

That is incorrect. I know because I AM lawyer and chose to become a teacher (and am much happier for it). I have students and parents sign numerous legal forms that absolve involved parties from liability.

As for your school's trip that was canceled, that happened to one of my trips (it was to Disney in Florida) and I took the students anyway because they would have lost their money otherwise. The superintendent had no problem with this once the students signed legal forms indicating their knowledge that it was not a school sponsored trip (it was drawn up by the legal department and I continue to use a similar form).

Finally, you are correct regarding the founding of Explorica. However, I can only go by my own, personal experience. I can honestly say that my previous trips with Explorica went extremely well and I'm expecting more of the same for our upcoming trip. Additionally, I know three other teachers that have used Explorica and they were also happy with their experiences.

I'll continue to recommend Explorica for student travel as long as they continue to deal with me in the way they have in the past.

well, I have little opinion on these as I never took EFtours nor know anyone who has, but ebflo, surely you cannot say that a school will not be sued. Whether one wins or not, or has signed any paper or not, I would be willing to bet that one would be sued anyway. What kind of lawyer were you, anyway, to not know that people sue others for lots of things regardless of papers signed,
and you can even successfully win certain cases regardless of what you've signed, because there are certain legal rights and other things that by law you cannot sign away, even if somebody tries to pretend you can. Now that may not be the case here, but I would say you can bet someone can and will sue for anything in the US.

Well, I guess I feel the need to chime in here...As a teacher,I took two trips with Explorica (spring 04 and 05). One was wonderful and one was horrible. The itineraries on these student trips are pretty interesting, but I think the outcome of the experience is all one big roll of the dice. What will make it a pleasureable and exciting experience is the leader you happen to have. And ours last year was so bad that I would never recommend the company again and we requested our district take them off the approved list. The worst part was the company's reaction to our very valid complaints. It was a basic "cya" letter to the participants and an insulting discount on another one of their trips. The very least that should have happened was the termination of the incompetent guide! So sending you child will be a gamble in my opinion. You may win or you may lose...

Does anyone know if Explorica or CHA does any adult tours, similar to what EF does with GoAhead Tours?
Wondering- Would you mind disclosing the name of the incompetent guide with Explorica? I had a wing-nut a few years ago with EF but have since found out she is no longer there.

Christina - I was wondering the same thing. Any lawyer would know a student can't sign a contract until age 18. In America, lawsuits make the world go round.

Beatle (love your name) - I'm not aware of CHA or Explorica providing adult trips but most will arrange a private tour with just your particpants for a price. Try calling their 800 numbers listed on their websites. I'm not sure why you would be interested in using a student oriented tour company instead of an adult one though. Most airlines will give you a group rate with 10 people. Many hotels will kick-in a free room if you booking several or give you a discount. I think even the regular tour companies will comp you something if you book a group with them.

My wing-nut was named Lola (EF). Still there last time I heard.

Thanks kybourbon(great name also). The only reason I was thinking about Explorica was that a few years ago I had a really good guide with EF who jumped ship to Explorica. Yes, I am planning on checking with a few regular tour companies. Some friends had a great time with Trafalgar. Thanks again for the info..

Beatle, have you checked out OAT/Grand Circle? They have a similar deal and come pretty highly recommended. (I used them for Peru and was quite happy, and I've seen lots of good stuff about them.)

Thanks Amy, I will add Grand Circle to my list..

Beatle--We had Cristina in Greece (fabulous person, well-educated, etc. ) and Giuseppe in London and Paris. He supposedly lives in London and I swear he had never been to Paris before our trip...I have last names somewhere if you need....I blocked his out of my mind because everytime I think about him my blood pressure goes sky high!

I had a chance to spend some time recently with the woman who organized the EF Tour I went on.

She has since taken three other tours. Two were fine and one was NOT good. The one that was NOT good was the 'stock' tour out of thier book.... live and learn.

Based on her expereinces my very strong suggestion for any of these companies is to make sure you aren't getting the "canned" tour.

The woman who organized the tours I am familar with knew nothing about traveling to Europe, but has managed to arrage three good tours. She, like Beatle, is very demanding before she signs the contract. Hotels are determined and discussed, guides are discussed etc. Now it costs more to do it her way which is the "custom tour", but she has 24 on a bus that hold 50 so the participants can spread out and the hotels/food is better. (It is not great, but since teenage Girl Scouts seem to live on a diet of Hamburgers when faced with ANTHING unusual it works)

I will take issue with the person who implied that I would rather take teens becuase they are not as likely to complain... I travel with Girl Scouts... They COMPLAIN, maybe it's that independence training we give them. I took 10 to Europe last Summer (I did the tour, no company) Trust me, silent and submissive is not thier style, but we had a great time. (Actually our hotel in Paris was probably a step below the one I stayed at with EF Tours. EFTours had private baths, I stuck them in a bath down the hall deal!)

She has also "left" some adults at tour sites. After her first tour she laid down the law, if you were over 18 and you missed the bus figure out what to do. If you were under 18 and you missed the bus she would deal with you. (Once was a chewing out, twice was a plane trip home at your parent's expense.... she's never left a girl)

I apologize guys, I should have made my response more clear.

You face no larger chance of being sued if the trip is district sponsored or non district sponsored as long as you have the correct forms. Everything is an assessment of risk. (We all know a child is more likely to traveling to school than traveling on an airplane.)

Of course, in our "sue happy" country (one of the reasons I left the practice of law), you could be sued for almost anything. All any lawyer can do is minimize the risk.

For example, when you buy a ticket to a sports event, it warns you that you may get hurt by being a spectator. Does that mean that they never get sued when it does happen? No, but 99.9% of the time a person will not be successful in this endeavor.

If people could not be fairly confident that any lawsuit against them would be unsuccessful, then we would not have live, spectator sporting events, we would never go on ANY field trips, etc...

Finally, as far as the minor situation goes, the parents, as legal guardians of their children, sign the forms. I have the students sign as well just to be thorough.

I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding from my prior posting. In America there is no such thing as being "sue-proof" - you just limit your liability as best you can.

For all my Girl Scout trips I have both the parents and Girls sign everything ESPECIALLY the behavior contract. (I don't want any girl telling me that I did not CLEARLY explain the rules....) Yes, the girl contract won't hold up in court, but the parent one might and that's not the real point... the point is to make sure the rules are clear and understood.

I have only sent a girl home on a trip once and that was a unique experience. (I inhertited

Wondering and ebflo (or anyone else who has been on Explorica student tours), would you mind elaborating a little bit on your experiences, especially if you've done the Spanish language program in Marbella, Spain? My boss is thinking of sending her daughter, but she doesn't want her to end up staying in any dodgy hotels or hostels...and she also wants to be sure that the supervision is reliable and that the students are not left to gallivant around Marbella after hours! Please feel free to email me if you prefer.

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Quills - Explorica is using Enforex and I think this is the first year for their trip/language combos. You can book through them much cheaper yourself. If she is traveling with a teacher from her school, then the teacher will be in charge. Explorica will not ever be in charge of the students as they are just a tour company.
www.enforex.com

My daughter's AP high school Spanish teacher took a group to one of Enforex's schools in Salamanca every summer because Salamanca is supposed to have the purest dialect. They usually stayed 2 weeks at the school and one week traveling. They stayed in apartments with other students and were very independent. She thought very highly of the courses Enforex offered.

My daughter is currently living with a family in Madrid while attending 2 universities there. She says teenagers in Madrid are much more independent at an earlier age than in the US. Adults in Spain will not expect high school students to need chaperones.

We did not do a language tour so I guess I wouldn't be help on that note. All I will say is we NEVER received any satisfaction from Explorica after the spring trip from hell. Yet they STILL keep trying to get me to use them again. NEVER!

Hi, I am a teacher in Boston, but ages ago was a tour guide throughout Europe. I worked for most of the major student tour companies and I have to say that it is all about the teachers leading the group. Those who complain about there only being 10 min at Notre Dame...that is your teacher's fault for not communicating with the guide. All of the guides I have worked with since becoming a teacher/leader have had the same mantra as I did when I was a leader "keep them happy." Not just for the tip, but because its Karma.

I now use EF exclusively for travel because they are the cheapest. (thank you so much to the poster who pointed out that teachers should go for free, we earn the trips, even the best kids have some challenges). What I do is email with the guide once one is assigned. We work out what the kids want to do; soccer game in Rome with local kids, which museums are important, etc. The more kids know about the destination, the better...also, avoid "10 cities in 10 days!" That is just insanity and should never be attempted. EF trips are to introduce kids to international travel, its not for folks accustomed to maid service. It is a huge step up from staying in hostels (my intro to traveling) and I really think that EF's hotels are getting better and better. Then again, having led almost 10 trips with them, I know that I get good service, that they give me the highest rated guides, etc.

My requests are always to stay in the city, except in Amsterdam... Then again, know that city hotels are not as nice as the suburban ones of the same cost. This is also true in Boston, NYC, any city across the globe. In regards to adults, I don't bring them. Kids are great, they are flexible, excited to see new things/meet new people, try adventures. Adults are just the opposite. If you get together a large enough group 25+ you get your own bus, this is the greatest for flexibility. Drivers will work with you, they are working for their tip, and can be paid to do extra outings... I was stuck with some obese middle aged midwesterners in Gay Pride Munich last year and they were complaining that it was EF's fault there was a parade of drag queens. My kids loved it, not just the gay boys, who doesn't love a parade? The midwesterners were angry about taking the Metro...why go to Paris if you are not going to experience it? My students learned a great deal about the "ugly american" stereotype from sharing a bus with those folks, so I thank them for illustrating so clearly how to not travel. I will never take adults with me.

I enjoy working with EF and am taking kids to China with them in the spring, my advice is to be in contact with your tour guide immediately, know what you/kids want to do, have the kids involved in selecting the itinerary, and clearly communicate your wants/needs/desires to the guide. Their job is to make your trip amazing, but they can only do this if you provide the information. Yes, there are crappy guides out there, but if you tell them what you want, they will probably be relieved at someone taking charge.

Hope that helps/contributes another layer to the discussion.

Excellent post! Exactly to the point as to how to make a tour work for you. The midwest adults part was great and right on the mark.

Baldworth

I was part of an EF group in June and have to say that overall I was very pleased with the trip. There were some things that weren't so good, but I suspect that would be true of any budget tour company.

We were very lucky in that we had a wonderful tour director. When problems arose, he took care of them and was extremely helpful to any of us who needed assistance. We also had a great bus driver who picked us up in Rome and stayed with us until he dropped us off at the train station in Zurich for the trip to Paris.

We had our own group - 24 students, 4 teachers, and 10 adults who were friends or relatives of the students or teachers. Everything went well. While the teachers didn't over-supervise the kids, they kept an eye on them. It was made clear from the first meeting that drinking would not be allowed even if it legal in Europe for those under 21 because it isn't legal in the US. We ran onto a couple of EF groups in hotels where we stayed that were making fools of themselves.

As we had heard, the hotels we stayed at were often not in the city. The worst was outside of Rome. It was quite a distance into the city and there was nothing around the hotel - no place to get a snack or drink and only one pay phone for everyone to use. They wouldn't let us use the phones in our rooms even with a calling card. The hotels when we visited Florence and Lucerne were both outside the city, but were in much better locations. The hotel in Erstfeld Switzerland served a great dinner each night and evened offered seconds to those still hungry. The hotel in Paris was on the outskirts of the city, but near a Metro station. The hotel in Madrid was also very close to a metro station and an easy walk to the museums and not too far to the center of the city. All of the hotels were clean and met our needs. Only the one in Switzerland didn't have air conditioning.

The food was always edible. Some places were better than others. A few were very good. Most places had breads and cereal for breakfast, although a couple of places only had breads.

The walking tours with our guide were great. He spoke 6 languages fluently so there were never any language problems. We had a tour guide in each of the cities we visited. Some were better than others because of the language. A couple were very hard to understand, especially the woman in Rome.

We spent 2 nights on a train and that was the worst, especially the space with 6 berths. Getting us and all of our luggage in there wasn't easy. Plus the car only had one working bathroom. The longer trip to Madrid only had 4 persons in room and did have a sink to use to wash up and thankfully all of the bathrooms worked.

If you need upscale travel, EF would not be a good choice. But for all of us, except one unhappy adult, we were pleased and had a great time and would go again if the opportunity arises. My friend is the German teacher and she is planning a trip in 2008 to German, Austria, Switzerland and Lichtenstein. There are already 4 adults from this trip who have told her we want to go in 08.

It worries me a bit if one must be thankful for working bathrooms on a tour.

Just picking up this link, but I wanted to respond to an inquiry made in April of this year regarding Explorica and whether they let they the students gallavant around after dark. I'd like to let any concerned parents considering Explorica Summer Academy know about my son's experience.

We booked the "trip of a lifetime" for him this summer with the Summer Academy tour through Europe. I was assured by Explorica staff that the students would have a half hour daily of free time, none after dark, and their guidelines states "all evening activities will be supervised".

The kids were given at least 6 hours a day of totally free unsupervised time in London, Paris and Amsterdam, with several nighttime hours of free time in each of these cities. In Amsterdam, the "chaperone" actually led these 14-15 year olds through the red light district then left them unsupervised on the outskirts! Well, guess what happened? One or two of the kids purchased some laced brownies in one of the stores where they are legal and accessible, brought them back to the hotel, and still unsupervised, shared them with at least 12 kids of the group. When the "chaperone" found out, ten kids were immediately sent home at a huge additional cost to the parents (up to $3500 per flight).

I shared this because parents of both kids who were sent home and those who remained on the tour were outraged that kids this young were given a free for all in these cities, especially Amsterdam of all places. Everyone assumed that "Academy" meant something semi-educational would be happening. Maybe it was just extremely poor judgement on the part of the particular chaperones on this trip, but something really failed here. Yes, the kids made a mistake by eating these "legal" brownies, but Explorica has made a more grievous error by lying about supervision, and the parents are convinced if the promised structure and supervision had been provided this never would have happened. By the way, they did not provide "at least 1 chaperone per 15 students" as their literature states they do.

So beware, any parent considering Explorica Summer Academy!

All these posts on the "escorted" European tours for high school students remind me of the "senior trips" to Cancun that kids are always taking. The parents get angry when the kids come home drunk (literally poured off the plane) after a week of bar hopping, pregnant, STD's, broken arms, etc. Many of the parents cheerfully purchase the bracelet that allows their little darling to drink for "free" at any bar on the strip for a week---then they turn around and complain when faced with the consequences of doing so. Other parents are truly clueless and have no idea what is going to happen on these trips. The teachers who go get a free trip for "chaperoning" the kids, like the young English teacher who announced at a bar that she was "commando" and who would like to peek! She couldn't understand why she didn't have control of her classes when school began the next year.

If I were a parent of a student on one of these Euro tours --I hate to say it-- but I probably <i>would</i> want to sue the company.

On any given trip, there are kids who misbehave, and kids who behave. The trip is the same for everyone, so the only difference is the kids. And kids tend to behave in the way they are raised. So if a child misbehaves egregiously on his trip, I look first to his parents, not the trip organizers.

&quot;The only difference is the kids&quot; --not! The difference is the quality and amount of supervision, as evidenced by yellow24' post and other, similar ones.

Anthony~ I respectfully disagree as to all tours being the SAME. The difference between a quality tour and one that is not...is the company's Tour Guide...I have experienced both ends of the spectrum. Using these tours is a crap shoot at best!

I didn't say that all tours are the same. I said that a given tour is the same for everyone&mdash;which means that if some kids misbehave and others don't, the problem is not with the tour, but with the kids &hellip; and, by extension, with their parents, who have raised them to behave or not behave.

Kids spend 99.999% of their lives being raised by their parents, and 0.001% of their lives on tours through Europe. If they aren't behaving, it's not the fault of the tour, it's the fault of the parents.

If <i>all</i> kids on a tour misbehave, it might be the tour. But if it's only a few, I don't think the tour has anything to do with it.

I certainly agree that unsupervised teenagers with too much free time in Europe is a recipe for trouble; however, kids who are determined to &quot;misbehave&quot; will find a way to do so.

I have been on two well supervised EF tours which allowed limited free time for the kids to get in trouble. Somehow, I still found myself holding a drunk girl's head while she threw up in a toilet, on my hands, and on my feet. I had to stay up with her all night to monitor for alcohol poisoning.

I had my eye on her from the flight over as I had to confiscate airplane bottles of liquor from her backpack. (I watched her steal them from the drink cart, but wasn't within speaking distance.) All the adults closely monitored the kids, but this girl managed to get her hands on a couple of bottles of wine and drink both by herself in her room after bed check and lights out.

The bottom line is that kids can and will misbehave even under the closest of supervision. There isn't really any solution; just keep supervising. Had they wanted to do so, those boys who bought the brownies could have still done that during the 30 minutes of free time that the tour company promised. Heck, one could have even excused himself to go to the WC and bought them.

Too much unsupervised time is certainly not advisable, but it isn't a guarantee that misbehavior won't occur. Even consequences won't deter some kids.

Regarding whether some kids are just looking for trouble, no matter where they are, let me just clarify my original post of yesterday:

My son is one of the ten kids sent home. This is a kid who NEVER gets in trouble in school or at home (it's Friday night and he's safe and quiet here at home.) Just a month before the trip, he had come to me worried that one of his old friends from town had tried to get him to drink alcohol and he had felt really uncomfortable--so we had made a pact that whenever he gets stuck in a situation like that, he should call me on my cell phone and I'll bail him out. Of course, overseas, that was impossible. This was just a really good, clean kid in an extremely awkward situation with a bunch of kids he had only met a few days before and he was terrified of losing face.

I am not trying to justify his trying the brownies, but he did not go out seeking the stuff. My son describes a scene where 12 kids were in his own hotel room, no adults, and he felt he had to take a few bites to just to maintain teenage dignity. Not a good decision, but he was stuck in a bad situation by absent supervision, a situation that he definitely did not want to be in. (If 12 kids were involved, you know it wasn't just 2 kids sneaking off to the bathroom to smoke or something. There was a bad failure of mature adult involvement with these kids)

So if you believe, that you have &quot;raised your kid right&quot; and that he or she would never succumb to a situation like this, think again. My son and I are now working on how to deal with sitautions like this when you can't call Mom, and you can't just get up and walk away (because all these kids are in your hotel room and its 12 pm at night and there is nowhere else to go). Best I can come up with is to lie and say &quot;Not tonight man, I've got a headache&quot;.

Anyways, most of the parents of kids involved are trying to get our money back through the BBB, as Explorica did not provide the supervision that would have prevented this from happening. (And what's up with just leaving them in the notorious part of Amsterdam--almost seems like they were set up to fail.)

Sorry--I'm ranting--still a lot of anger about what was supposed to be the most fun summer of my son's life, which has turned into this big headache.

Yellow 24, this is another reason why I would never take 14 and 15 year olds on a trip like this. It is tough enough with 17 and 18 year olds. The amount of free time completely unsupervised is totally ridiculous and there is no excuse in leaving kids for that long in a place like Amsterdam, especially in the red light district. This is why our tour stayed in Edam, 30 minutes outside of Amsterdam, because it is so easy to find trouble in a city like that at night. A lot has to do with the TD who organizes the activities and arranges the meeting times and where to go.

Baldworth